From buddy to biter

[burdman]

Gary B. That biting and twisting is what Riley was doing when he couldn't get my index finger. He got both my middle finger knuckles. Looks like I punched someone.

The worst bites I've received were from a military macaw. He gnawed my forearm so bad. It was black and blue for days, but I gained his trust!!

 

[cstambaugh]

My GW does the whole head down wings hunched and kind of shaking. That isnt a beg, its just an attention thing. If he willingly steps up to you though, that's different.

 

[burdman]

Not making any progress. In fact the situation has gotten worse.
Getting a bit frustrated.
One major change is he now is totally attached to my wife, who he was only tolerant of before. He used to jump off her and run across the floor to be with me if I came in the same room with them.
She lets him shoulder ride, and puts up with his hormonal activity (which has picked up again), so I suppose for him its and easy choice.
I have no problem with him wanting to be with her. Just wish I wasn't still getting bit. He even bit me when he got stuck crawling on the outside of his cage the other day and I had to pick him up.
I taught her how to bathe him, so barring any unforeseen emergency where I will have to pick him up, I believe his needs will be met.
My wife, and Riley's happiness are my key concerns.

 

[Mariahh0721]

I had this exact same thing happen with my grey he is now 17. When i got him the first while was great, then he started biting and biting. i have many many scars on my hands from him. Then there was one time he bit me and got down to the bone. I began not picking him up, i would let him out and when he went back in the cage i would close his door. This went on for 2 months. during that time he bonded with my brother, he could pet him, pick him up anything. My brother then moved out, so then it was my turn to try again with him. IF i needed to pick him up, like if he got on the floor i would put on a hoodie, or two and pick him up with my arm rather then my hand. this worked well because if he bit me, it wouldn't hurt, thus giving the effect of me "not reacting" after he bit the hoodie a couple times he would give up and step up. After awhile of this probably 3 months he now steps up pretty good, still tries to bite sometimes but when that happens i either gently push on his beak when he tries to bite or i go and grab the hoodie. but that only happens maybe once a week, but in the 7 months I've had him i think he's improved quite a bit i can now hold him and he doesn't even try to bite..often.. its still a process though
hes semi tolerant of me now

 

[burdman]

Tried a very passive approach last night.
I sat down next to his cage and started doing some paperwork.
I opened his cage and he immediately climbed down the cage and walked onto my leg.
I put my hands in a place where he could not get to them. He sat calmly for a few minutes, then started walking around in my lap.
He chewed on my shirt a couple times, and kept looking for my hands. I just kept talking to him, and giving him a little verbal reprimand when he started biting the shirt.
He let me lean over so that we were sort of cuddling, with him tucked partially under my shirt. He seemed quite content.
After about 20 minutes I placed his food bowl on his open shelf door.
He walked back over to the cage and climbed up and started eating.

Can it be that perhaps he associates my hands with being placed back in his cage (which he resists every time), and that he now automatically thinks my hands mean back in the cage??
Going to try the same thing tonight, but will also have some of his foot toys handy to try and occupy him.
He lets me pet him on the head, wing shoulders, and beak while he is standing on his cage, with no signs of agitation or aggression.

 

[Empath]

Can it be that perhaps he associates my hands with being placed back in his cage (which he resists every time), and that he now automatically thinks my hands mean back in the cage??

possibly. the hardest part for you is the fact he's gone from loving to a homicidal fid. my first thought is hormones, not sure how old he is. he may have decided he wants to "pair" with your wife. i was reading about african greys a few years (i was considering getting one but their $5k+ here in Australia ) and one of the species (cant remember which) supposedly would bond well initially with the owner but after a few years woudl bond better with someone else. the theory was that in this particular species the young bird would bond with the owner like a parent or sibling, but since they dont tend to mate with relatives when they start maturing they look for a new partner, hence why their bond with their original owner fractured.

this was a theory (as far as i'm aware) but i wodner whether something similar is happeningw ith your bird. my Eckie can be a real pain, he doesnt like being held that much unless he decides he wants to and he usually does bite me but i think its because he's being a dick as oppossed to anything else and he isnt vicious like yours.

another approach for you is to take a step back. pretend you just brought him home today and are getting to know him and he's carrying on like this. what would you do? for whatever reason what you've been doing isnt working (thats not necessarily your fault), you need to start fresh again. he may need to stay in the cage a bit more whilst you sit next to him, he may need to be handled less whilst he learns to behave. you may need to regain his trust even though you may not have actually done anything to lose it

 

[Allee]

I feel for you Burdman, and for Riley. A lot of great advice here. I think you are right to follow Birdman's steps to get back to a good place with your companion.

I think my female Quaker's former owners intentionally trained her to bite and to cuss before they re-homed her. I seriously underestimated her when I started training sessions because of her size and species. Even after her first attack I stupidly thought it would be an easy fix. She looked innocent and she loved to be on my shoulder. She was behaving similarly to Riley. Violent attacks seemingly out of no where. She bites down and twists until you bleed. Every time she bit I walked her to her cage, said step away and waited until she did. Then I ignored her for just a couple of minutes. She's flighted so I trained her to fly to me when I say, come here. She loves training sessions and hates being ignored. I was bloody for about two months but it was worth it. At first, I would open her door and about twice a week she would come out and do her best to kill me. She's an enigma, she sits on my shoulder and purrs in my ear. She has an amazing personality but if we hadn't resolved her biting with training she wouldn't have had a very bright future. She was headed down a dark road when she followed me home. Now I can tell when she is going to bite and I can say, careful and she changes her mind most of the time. Persistence is everything. She's caused a lot more pain and bloodshed than my U2 who also has behavior issues. Every bird and human is different, you have a great attitude and a willingness to learn. I wish you and Riley the very best. I so hope you can sort this out.

 

[jnb91191]

I haven't read all of the posts, so I'm sorry if I'm repeating what someone has already said, but I think it would be great if you could train a behavior that was incompatible with him biting your arm, like stepping onto a T-perch or a stick or touching a target with his beak. In other words, you're setting him and yourself up for success by providing him with an acceptable behavior that he can do without any possibility that he will bite you. Positive reinforcement is usually the best way to go when modifying behavioral issues like this. Although you might be able to temporarily interrupt the behavior using what you might think is a punisher, it is not a long lasting solution. Often, the level of punishment you would have to use to completely eliminate a problem behavior would be incredibly harsh and unethical to use. More minor forms of punishment simply exacerbate the problem. Please don't hesitate to send me a message if you have questions. I also know a few other lovely ladies that can help in modifying behavioral issues like this one...Susan Friedman of Behavior Works (Welcome to BehaviorWorks.org), Barbara Heidenreich of Good Bird Inc. (Training Parrots | Parrot Training DVDS & Books), and Lara Joseph of The Animal Behavior Center LLC (www.theanimalbehaviorcenter.com). Good luck!

 

[burdman]

Thanks jnb. Just received a Barbara Heidenreich dvd yesterday. Also picked up a dvd about captive foraging. Hoping to find solutions. Things have not improved at all for Riley and I. So discouraged. Better days ahead I hope!!

 

[broxi3781]

I don't know much about this but I've heard of some birds going bitey when they reach the equivalent of the teens. It's meant to be age 2 with Quakers, I've no idea for your bird what age it would hit. You may have a very snotty teenager on your hands. I'd go with the stick for picking him up --- but I don't think I'd try to pick him up at all for now. Just walk by the cage frequently and talk nicely to him and try to get him to take a favourite treat from your hands - even if you must stuff it between the bars. Wait until he looks forward to seeing you again before trying to hold him. Good Luck and so sorry you having such a rough time. I do hope it is a temporary setback.

 

[CheshireGrymm]

It's hard to reconcile him "begging" to be picked up with him then being in a biting "frenzy." I tend to think you're misinterpreting his "begging." I think Eclectuses are not hands-on birds, and that they can be feisty. Search You Tube for the Riley the talking Eclectus videos. He doesn't strike me as a bird who wants to be held and touched a lot, and he gets pretty feisty at one one point, throwing around his owner's keyboard.

I think the advice often given here to just put up with biting and not "reward it" is just wrong, unless you're a conducting a psychology experiment or want to get your bird so he can be a star on TV. Similarly, I don't think there's any value to the practice of labeling your bird as "dominant" and then trying to assert your own "dominance" over it.
Why must things devolve into a struggle for power of "dominance"? My theory is that many people are very afraid of the amazing power of their birds, which is very real in the larger birds, and thus focus energy on constantly trying to "dominate" so they don't feel afraid.

Instead, you should be using ways to distract your bird to stop the biting, such as throwing him off balance by twisting you arm when he bites or is bending down to bite you. ("He goes to the floor," as Birdman666 puts it, although the bird doesn't need to actually fall off your arm ... the point is to interrupt the behavior.) Just letting him bite you repeatedly is going to instill a pattern of behavior in him. Avoid the situations when he tends to bite ... instead, enjoy his presence, sit near him, talk to him, get a stand, spray him with mist ... all good stuff that won't get you bitten. See what develops over time as you get to know each other rather than getting into a huge power struggle with him, which is probably he cause of the biting.

I couldn't have agreed more. I have asked on certain threads once before about Sweeney's biting problem, and most of the responses I got were to "ignore the biting". I'm sorry, but I'm not going to sit there and ignore bites that are drawing blood every time. :/

I believe that there are other ways to stop that kind of behavior instead of ignoring it. I haven't figured out what to do with my GCC yet, but I do hope that you can find a good working solution for yours! Good luck!

 

[kerrievalentine]

wishing you the best of luck with Buddy, i have the female equivalent in Jasmine. its hearbreaking that a small bundle of feathers can hurt the way they do. I have now had her wings clipped and am about to start trying to train her. I will be sad if i cant get her over the attacking and biting.

 

[MamaFuzz]

Sounds like your Ekkie has bonded with your wife. If she is 'tolerating' his hormonal behavior then he probably assumes she has excepted him as her mate. This would put you in the Enemy #1 position. His begging is probably the most effective way he has to get to you since his wings are clipped and he knows you'll give him what he wants. I would also guess that the increase in hormonal behavior, biting, and love for your wife all started in a fairly short amount of time.
Your wife has to discourage all the hormonal behavior and the biting behavior. Make sure she is only petting him on the head. Anywhere else will excite him in the wrong way. It will have to be a joint effort or things will only get worse as the he gets more attached to your wife. He might even start biting her if he believes she is 'cheating' on him with you. Good luck.

 

[burdman]

Yes, he's definitely bonded with her. I have had to resort to using a stick to pick him up now, and he even screeches and gets very angry when I do that.
Strange thing, I can pet his cheeks, head, beak while he sits on his cage, or even on her shoulder, with no aggression from him at all. As soon as I pick him up he goes after my fingers, or any flesh he can get a grip on.
I have been trying wearing a thick hooded sweatshirt and gloves to pick him up, which I can do, but he's gnawing on the gloved finger the whole time, and if some of my flesh gets exposed, like between the glove and sleeve, he goes right for it to bite.
I have accepted the fact that what we had is no more, at least for the time being.
He seems content.
I have told my wife that she is doing him no favors allowing the hormonal behavior, and she has conceded to that. She is trying to distract him when he becomes physical (daily).
My concern, and I don't want to go TMI, is that my wife is very ill. I know at some point I will be Rileys number one care giver and companion. Hopefully when that time comes we will have a better relationship.
I'm not giving up!!

 

[kagan1042]

Oh gosh this is horrible!

My previous bird (a blue quaker) was bonded to my partner at the time, and when the ex left, I got the bird.

I could not pick him up with my hands and had to keep him clipped as he would fly to attack me.

At one point, the ex came and collected Charlie.....and then decided he didn't want him anymore, so Charlie got left on the side walk for me to come and rescue.

Poor little dude didn't cope too well with change to begin with, and his world had gotten turned upside down on him.

Long story short.... after many many months I guess figured out ex wasn't coming back, I was here to stay and built a bridge and got over his birdy lover leaving him.

I tried to remain stable in my routines with him, the way I acted when he bit, and how I interacted with him...he needed stability in his life and when they are so dependant on us anyways, I felt it was my job to be his rock *naw*

I know Charlie never bonded with me, but more accepted I was mum and that was that. We lived many years together without grumpy bitey butt.

When Charlie met one of my male friends for the first time, he immediately went to him...and now Charlie lives with him (and has been with him about 4 years now). No bitey butt to be seen and is a lovely cuddly boy with Adam, which is just fantastic.

I guess you just need to ride it out, be constant in your actions and your way of treating him; and when your wife is no longer his caregiver he might just accept you're dad and here to stay

Good luck