Gonna Foster an aggressive/paranoid Eclectus, I need some tips

[tywaffles]

So I have decided to foster a male ekki on from craigslist, I am fostering it because the current owner is scared to let it out of its cage and handle it, 6 months ago he had a tangle up in the owners blinds, and though it was not injured, it was became aggressive, and refused to step up and would not tolerate any head scratches whatsoever, even biting out of defense, the owner still feeds it well and it will take treats from inside the cage, I should note that it is about 2 1/2-3 years old now, so maybe hormones have something to do with it.

I will be fostering it soon, and my intent is to at least get it to step up onto a stick, then target stick train it, with the assistance of the good 'ol gardening gloves, How do you guys think I should handle this?

 

[MonicaMc]

1.) Don't use gloves
2.) Find out his favorite treats
3.) Any time you walk by the cage, drop favorite treat into special treat cup
4.) Work on target training *through* the cage bars before even attempting to bring him out
5.) Once good at target training through cage bars, work through the cage door, then around the outside of the cage
6.) Make sure you do not use gloves!

 

[ChristaNL]

Highjacking this tread - sorry- but



Monica - just curious: why no gloves?
(I agree, but only because -just my experience- parrots are usually way more carefull with flesh than inanimate objects, and it cuts down on 'mistakes' and me getting hurt.
Once they understand what gloves are they really don't care about them- I tried because of all the stories about them freaking out etc..)
There are so many stories circulating why not to use gloves it's hard to find which are the valid ones - what are yours?


=


Way to go tywaffles \o/ I think it is great you are going to give this bird a new chance at a more meaningfull (and funfilled) existence.

 

[Scott]

Welcome to the forums, thanks for taking on a labor of love! Hope you'll share the journey with us!

You'll find the Eclectus Forum has a wealth of knowledge to help integrate this hapless bird into your home, and hopefully, your heart!

Three other helpful threads:
http://www.parrotforums.com/general-parrot-information/49144-tips-bonding-building-trust.html
http://www.parrotforums.com/training/60435-clicker-target-training.html
http://www.parrotforums.com/training/63988-bite-pressure-training.html

Are you familiar with the unique dietary needs of Eclectus?

 

[chris-md]

I personally don’t have a problem with gloves. I use it when my boy becomes a little too homonally aggressive. He sees the glove and snaps out of it usually, steps right up.

Some other birds however, hate gloves and never come to like them. I’ve been told by some that their bird bites even harder than it otherwise would.

It’s just a tool though, for me, not a crutch. I think to be wholly dependent on the individual.

 

[MonicaMc]

Some parrots become accustomed to stepping up on gloves, but then when you remove the gloves, you are back at square one. The bird is still afraid of the bare hand.

Add in the factor, gloves can be like an aversive stimuli... like a water bottle. Bird learns to "behave" because it's frightened by the site of the new object that it does not have a good association with. *NOT HEALTHY*.

And to round it up... gloves can encourage the use of flooding techniques where the bird has no say in the final outcome and simply gives up... or becomes more aggressive.


These are not, IMO, healthy training techniques.

 

[tywaffles]

Something i should mention, he is still flighted, should I get his wings clipped if i am training a bird like him?

 

[ChristaNL]

Oh boy ... good question.


Personally: I wouldn't clip ( unless it was necessery for my selfdefense - being divebombed by a murderous parrot is no fun).
The little guy has enough issues to deal with already without losing one of his most prized skills.

After 6 months being stuck in a cage he probably will not go far anyway ...

I would just focus on getting him settled, fed well (but not too much) and if you suspect raging hormones the 12+ hours of sleeptime.

There is some great advice about starting clickertraining inside the cage first - if you do not trust the bird it is a great place to start.
Getting used to a new home (even if they can keep their own cage) can take several months- so take your time.

 

[tywaffles]

Does anyone here with ekkies have any tips on knowing when they are scared/about to bite? if possible i want to avoid getting stitches,

 

[MonicaMc]

I've dealt with mainly the smaller guys, and I don't believe that clipping is necessary in order to gain a bird's trust. Even if I had a large parrot that flew to bite people, I still wouldn't clip! If you are worried about that, then work on training with the bird *IN* the cage! Start on target training and station training through the cage bars.

I know a lot of people will say that just because I don't have a large parrot, it's different, but that's not true at all.



Here's some old videos.... first set, 5 adult budgies. Three were second hand, plus, birds from other homes that were originally purchased at a pet store and never tamed. They were basically just ornaments. Two came from a breeder as adults. Again, not tame/friendly. I started feeding them by hand every day. If one budgie was brave enough, then the others eventually followed suit.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUx81WHTUwk"]1 Bird in hand Leads to Many - YouTube[/ame]


[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlSm4uFZzVU"]More Budgies!!!! - YouTube[/ame]



Now, I only had plans on working with budgies, but I had a hand raised, then neglected cockatiel that had other plans. Took me two weeks to figure out that she wanted the same interaction! (no before)

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q88bN30qOjo"]Sunshine in the Morning - YouTube[/ame]



And then came Faye... at least 3 homes prior to my own and she had lost her mate in her previous one. I'm not sure if her 3 previous homes really even cared about her. (honestly, not happy with the last home... she was the 3rd animal I had taken in from that family...) Faye watched me interacting with Sunshine and wanted the same behavior from the start. You can see how nervous she is in the first video.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9w9w8nMRmw"]Hesitant Faye - YouTube[/ame]



Compared to second video.... her behavior is completely different! And I'm also feeding her pellets, not seeds! (she, oddly, took to eating pellets as if she had always eaten them... but I'm sure that the last two homes at least only fed her seeds...)

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH9ZWxhCSAE"]Not So Hesitant Faye - YouTube[/ame]



Which lead to doing the same behavior with the other cockatiels.... including an ex-breeder (Sunshine's father! Pistachio) that was *extremely* skittish. I never clipped any of their wings to get this behavior, either!

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjKmHswgiHs"]Cockatiel Feeding - April 24th - YouTube[/ame]




And if you don't think you can work with an aggressive bird while caged.... I'd recommend reading the snippet from this page about working with Fergus (about halfway down - Fergus, a sulphur crested 'too, sittong on the door of his cage chewing on a stick)

https://zoologica.wordpress.com/2008/12/21/living-with-a-cockatoo/




As far as bites go, learn to read body language. Things like eye pinning, beak open, wide stance, feathers slick, wings just slightly spread away from body, neck/head feathers might be opened up a bit. Signs can vary somewhat from bird to bird.

 

[Anansi]

First, thank you for taking on a behaviorally challenged bird. So often birds with seemingly aggressive tendencies wind up just getting bounced around from home to home.

No, I wouldn't clip him. Monica's advice for target training through the bars of the cage is right on point. Just pay plenty of attention to his body language and be careful not to push him further than he is ready to go. Here is a link to a great thread on bite avoidance: http://www.parrotforums.com/training/57935-brainstorming-biting-parrots.html

And I also agree about the gloves. They work out okay sometimes, like with Chris and his Parker, but for many birds it just aggravates their response. I remember trying something like that when getting my son to work with my female ekkie, Maya. (Maya will sometimes bite when dealing with anyone who isn't me. Still a work in progress on the socializing front.) So I wrapped his hand in vet wrap. Boy, was that a bad move! She went after his wrapped fingers like they were honey sticks! And unfortunately for my poor son, that beak goes through even several layers of vet wrap like a hot knife through already melted butter! Point here is, depending on the bird, the glove might stress him out or drive him to a point of acceptance via the flooding mentioned earlier. For other birds it might not really make much of a difference, but I tend toward just working with my hands when dealing with a new bird.

Oh, as for pinning, that's a complicated one that needs to be read in context. My ekkies pin for EVERYTHING! "Yay, he's coming!" (pin) "Oh no, he's leaving!" (pin) "Breakfast!" (pin) "Dinner!" (pin) "What the heck was that?!?" (pin) "Stranger Danger!" (pin) "He's going to the treat cabinet!" (pin) So if I considered pinning a definitive sign of biting, I'd never approach my birds. But it's all in the context.