[HELP!] School Cockatiels are Incredibly Aggressive

[socktheconure]

Hello everyone! I recently joined this forum as I seek what I feel is urgent- I need help figuring something out.

My school has a Veterinary Pathway.
We have a Vet Lab, which is dedicated to multiple incredibly healthy animals- except, not all of them are healthy.

We have a pair of cockatiels that are incredibly hostile and stressed.
When I inquired the 'cause of aggression', the teacher explained,"Ever since they bred and laid eggs, they've been very very aggressive."

I further inquired and I was given more context, which was shocking to me-
"We took away their eggs."

So... you're telling me that you took away their eggs and didn't expect them to become hostile? So now you're just going to neglect them of any sort of opportunity to be happy?

I found this shocking, as taking away a pair's eggs can be quite devastating to them! And I believe this was their first ever clutch : (

I feel as if I should also mention the physical condition of these birds.
We have a Normal Grey. I believe the Normal Grey is the male as they are more chatty!
The Normal Gray is seemingly blind in the left eye (there is a gray 'spot' in the bird's eye) and is balding- not molting- balding.

The other cockatiel is brown and white (but not a cinnamon).
She is in great condition but is seriously hostile. Whenever I stick my finger up to their cage, they try to strike my finger and often display hostile/territorial behavior.

These birds are trying over and over again to hatch eggs, but every time we catch them we have to take the eggs away, whether they're broken/cracked or not.

I am very concerned for these birds, but I can only do so much.
I would appreciate any help at all you guys can suggest- perhaps describe the condition thus further so I can show my Vet teacher why she should be more than concerned about those "evil egg laying birds".

Much love,
Oswald


(also, if it is ever necessary, i will try and get pictures of the birds!)

 

[wrench13]

Jezzz, what kind of vet teacher is this?? Next clutch, boil the eggs, put them back and they will loose interest eventually when they don't hatch.

 

[ChristaNL]

Wrench said it first! Just let them go through their cycle and get it out of their systems.

A bald head? Are you sure the other tiel is not doing that?
(the other reasons I can think of is the birds ending up scalping themselves while panicky flying up and grazing their heads on the mesh on top of the enclosure / usually nightfrights or predators)

 

[LordTriggs]

for a vet they sound like an absolute moron to put things bluntly. Maybe, juuuuust maybe the cockatiels are trying to defend their young being taken away? But nah I guess that thought never occurred to the vet there.

As said above, next batch of eggs boil them and put them back after cooling down (do one at a time) and let them get it out of their system. Otherwise soon that female could get egg-bound and die.

As for the balding on the male that sounds like the female has got so stressed she's begun plucking him, or like Christa said he could be scraping his head on the roof of the enclosure if he is having night frights which is possible considering their stress levels

 

[socktheconure]

Thank you so so much Wrench!!
I will suggest this to her, and I'll keep you guys updated!

 

[socktheconure]

The other tiel is in perfect condition. Literally looks like a 'brand new bird'!
I don't think these guys fly around much. The most I've seen them do is scale the side of their cage, but that's about it!

I'll definitely keep an eye out though!

 

[socktheconure]

I agree. I feel as if she's more interested in the reptiles and mammals in the lab simple because they're easy to handle and bond with.

Alright! And for the eggs, I'm assuming I'll need to remove them after a while because they'll rot?

That's what a lot of the others students think too- I'll keep an eye on that because the balding tiel often tries to strike the other tiel.

 

[Owlet]

What is their caging situation like? how big is the cage? so they have multiple toys? what about perches? An inadequate home could also stress them out.

 

[socktheconure]

The best way I can describe it is a tall cage (4-5 feet) with a length of about 2-3 feet?

They have a swing, water bowl, food bowl, cuttlebone, and one toy. They also have a perch near the bottom of the cage.

They have newspaper at the bottom of their cage.

The cage's painting is coming off from the birds biting on the cage.

That's the best description I can offer!

 

[wrench13]

In otherwords - poor and dangerous conditions. Chipping paint allows bare metal (rusted?) to be ingested along with the paint. And gee whiz , one whole toy to keep them happy? Cocky toys are small and cheap, take up a class collection and get them 4 or 5 new ones. Unbelievable that this is in a Vet Pathway classroom.

 

[Owlet]

So they have a swing and one perch? that's all they have in terms of perches?? If so i would also add a few (non wooden dowel!) perches to that class collection Wrench suggested

 

[Kiwibird]

SO many things wrong with this picture. Poor birds This is a perfect example though of why you don't want to take your bird to a regular vet and it is 100% worth forking over the extra money to see an avian specialist. If this is where students wanting to be vets start learning about caring for birds, it's no wonder they can't treat them properly (have seen some real head scratchers the past few weeks on here of regular vets doing bizarre and dangerous things to birds)!

First off, it seems your 'teacher' lacks a fundamental understanding of avian psychology and behavior. Breeder birds are rarely 'pet quality' and are typically disinterested in human interaction beyond what is absolutely essential. These birds being aggressive towards people is likely more due to a general lack of training and them being bonded to each other, hence being disinterested in human interaction. Most breeder birds, at best, tolerate humans. Many do become used to their eggs or chicks being removed for hand feeding. In fact some better breeders even 'co-raise' the chicks with the parent birds. But I get the distinct impression it is not anyones intention for these birds to breed or keep laying eggs, which means there is someone out there who isn't bright enough to not keep a male and female together because they're going to do what males and females of all species who reproduce sexually do... And this individual is teaching veterinary students! I bet they have some kind of nest box in their cage too. It is also likely, as breeder birds sometimes do, one is plucking the others head.

These birds at minimum need to be separated into side by side cages and worked with individually if the desired result is 'tame' birds and so that the female stops plucking the males head. Interactions should be supervised and mating not allowed. The female should not have anything in her cage that is 'nest like', as that will just encourage her to keep laying eggs. Toys should be provided for mental stimulation as well as perches of varying diameters, texture and material so the feet get exercise and don't develop arthritis. Better yet, what REALLY should happen is these birds get rehomed to someone who actually knows how to and is willing to take care of them properly (which is scary to say, as a vet program should be capable of properly caring for a couple cockatiels). The female also needs to be seen by an actual avian vet if she has laid numerous clutches of eggs. Female parrots can develop life threatening health issues from chronic egg laying as well as life shortening calcium deficiencies. Smaller parrots are even more prone to these issues.

 

[socktheconure]

Agreed. I've known that paint can be a serious issue with cages.

My family and I attempted to get a cage for the cockatiels, but it ended up being smaller than expected. I'm unsure if we can afford to attempt to get them a new one, but we will try our best as our Vet teacher wants 'donations'.

I can definitely try and get them toys soon though! They just do not have as much space for toys, considering that the cage is only about 2 feet long and it would become cluttered.

I also forgot to mention the disco ball toy on the swing- they seem to like that one a bit.
But, like I said, that's it. Their cage is very boring. I'll try and get photos soon.

 

[socktheconure]

Sure thing!! I'll try and get some.

Someone suggested a new cage- I think I'm going to try and get that as well.

 

[socktheconure]

Agreed!
Somewhat off topic, but the Vet lab used to have ferrets- two of them. The reason we no longer have them is because the students neglected them "because they stink".

They don't have a nest box! It's just the male and female. The female lays the eggs and they fall to the bottom of the cage. It's awful.
I'll see what I can do. I considered getting the school entirely new cockatiels, but I'm unsure what would happen to the other two!

The best I can do right now is give them fake eggs and hope for the best. I suggested a gofundme to try and achieve this, because at the moment I can not afford to get them two separate cages (the vet teacher won't get them on her own).
For context, I am a minor who is only 16- I don't have a job, my only 'job' is creating art : ( I will try my very best to do something about them. I'll ask my teacher if she can rehome them in return for new birds.

I will try my very best to help as much as I can!

 

[EllenD]

Yeah, Kiwi nailed this...There are many, many, many things wrong here, and not just wrong, but potentially fatal to the birds. First of all, if the birds are inside of a cage where they are chewing the paint/powdercoating/metal off of the bars, this is a very dangerous situation that is going to end in tragedy, as it usually does. Any time this happens the birds must be moved into a new cage, preferably one that is not painted or coated with anything that can be chewed off by the birds.

However, there is a very good reason that these birds are chewing on the cage!!! It's because they are absolutely bored to tears! These guys have the intelligence of a 4 year-old human child, and they have one perch and one toy? That's it? They should have a minimum of 6-10 different toys at any one time, and each toy should be a different type of toy-one for chewing (wooden), one for shredding, one for foraging, etc. And for both their mental and physical health they need multiple perches, each made of different materials and different sizes; if they are simply sitting on one perch (probably a wooden or plastic dowel) and that's it, they are going to get Bumblefoot and other foot conditions. The main issue though is the lack of stimulation! They never get out of the cage to fly, so no exercise or interaction/stimulation there, and they have 1 measly toy. They are becoming more and more aggressive and most likely starting to over-preen due to boredom and stress. This is going to turn into self-mutilation and feather-destructive behavior very quickly.

Now, the breeding situation...This is awful, and for a bunch of reasons...First of all, do they have both a Cuttlebone and a Mineral Block inside of the cage at all times? If not, the female is going to eventually develop a calcium-deficiency and is at great-risk for becoming Egg-Bound, which is 100% fatal if not intervened with instantly.

The fact that the female is laying clutch after clutch after clutch is worrisome. Cockatiels are prone to chronic egg-laying, and removing their eggs is causing her to lay more and more. So they either need to remove each real egg as they are laid and then freeze them overnight or boil them and then put them back in the nest, and do this with each egg as she lays them, or they need to buy fake Cockatiel eggs and simply replace each egg with a fake one. And you need to leave the eggs in with the female until she loses interest in laying on them on her own. At that point she'll just stop laying on them and she'll start ignoring them, then you can throw them out. But if they are removed before she loses interest in them on her own, she's just being triggered to lay another clutch.

These birds shouldn't be breeding in this situation anyway...I don't think anyone has yet to ask what the bird's regular, daily diet is, but I'm going to assume it's a bagged seed-mix? Is that it? Or are they eating a pellet diet? Do they get fresh veggies every day? How about some Egg-Food for the female? Laying clutch after clutch after clutch of eggs is extremely stressful on the female's body, and it quickly will become apparent that she's starting to suffer physically because of it; their feathers eventually start becoming dull and patchy (and they also often start plucking), they become very skinny, their eyes become dull, they often start open-mouth breathing all the time, it actually looks like they are panting like a dog does constantly, 24/7, their bones become brittle and they start to have trouble moving/walking without pain, and this is because the calcium is being leeched from their bones to make eggs, etc. This is what is going to happen if these birds continue to lay clutch after clutch.

Is there a nestbox in the cage with them? If so, then you need to talk to whomever is "in-charge" or whomever owns these birds about trying to stop them from breeding anymore, and the first thing they need to do (after the cuttlebone, mineral block, Egg-Food, etc) is to remove any nest-boxes or nesting material that is anywhere in the cage to try to discourage them from breeding. The next thing is to try to get a handle on their natural light schedule. They should be on a natural light schedule, where they are able to see the sunrise and sunset through a window naturally, and they should ideally be covered and put to bed right as they watch the sunset, and be awakened and uncovered with the sunrise. This will help tremendously to calm their hormones.

I commend you for trying to help these birds, it's not your responsibility and I thank you for caring about them, as this is a bad situation for parrots to be in. Unfortunately parrots do not make good classroom pets/animals at all, simply due to their needs and how much stress negatively effects them...and also because it's not a situation where they are going to be able to get any out-of-cage-time at all, they are locked inside a cage 24/7, and if this is the case and they don't have a ton of different toys and foraging activities inside of the cage they are locked in 24/7, that's when they become stressed, they become aggressive, and they start breeding continually, which starts the serious health issues for the female. They just are not good classroom animals. No one is there after what, 4:00-5:00 at the latest? So they get no stimulation, no time to fly around, no exercise at all, they just sit inside a cage with literally nothing to do. 1 toy inside any parrot's cage is shameful, let alone with 2 cockatiels.

It doesn't sound to me like whomever is in-charge of this vet-lab program knows anything at all about caring for parrots, their needs, their wants, their requirements, and how horrible allowing them to constantly breed is...And if they removed the eggs anyway, that indicates that they aren't purposely trying to breed them anyway, or wanting them to breed, right? So why are they putting them into a situation where they have nothing to do but breed? Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled that this isn't a situation where they're purposely trying to get them to breed so that they can raise baby birds....that would be absolutely horrible. But if an adult is going to take-on keeping a bonded breeding-pair of parrots in their classroom at a school, then they should know enough to do all of the research and educate themselves, which this person obviously hasn't done...They would be much better-off either having a single bird, or having 2 males or 2 females, or putting these two birds into separate cages right beside each other so that they can no longer mate, but they can still see each other, talk to each other, and interact. Sometimes this is what has to be done for the welfare of the female.

I hope that you're able to talk to this teacher or whoever it is that runs this program, sit down with them and explain to them that these 2 birds are becoming aggressive because they are both extremely stressed due to#1) Utter and complete boredom, #2) A total lack of mental stimulation, #3) A total lack of physical exercise, #4) Hormonal issues caused by the constant breeding and the situation with the constant egg-laying, etc. Tell them that the female is in great-danger of developing serious and potentially lethal health conditions due to the chronic egg-laying, and that she does not have any of the things that she needs to keep her from becoming calcium-deficient, such as the Cuttlebone, a large Mineral Block, Egg-Food in her food bowl every day, fresh veggies every day (dark, leafy greens specifically), etc. And someone, I don't know who but someone is going to have to bite the bullet and go out and buy a lot of different types of toys for these guys, they must have at least 6-10 different toys, the more the better, along with a bunch of new perches made of different materials like different branch-perches of different diameters, at least one sand-perch to keep their toenails from needing clipped, etc. They need some ladders to climb. They need some rope toys or plastic chains hanging that they can climb up and down and swing from. They're extremely intelligent and they are being slowly killed due to a total lack of mental and physical stimulation. If all these 2 birds do is sit inside a locked cage with no toys and nothing at all to do all day long for years but breed and chronically lay eggs, then they are much better being re-homed to either a private individual who has parrot experience and that does not want to use them as breeders, or at the very least they need to be surrendered to a reputable Avian Rescue who can get them into a proper environment with proper mental and physical stimulation, get them on a proper diet, stop the breeding, and find them a loving and responsible forever home. Because this is not at all good for them...

 

[EllenD]

I was just thinking about this situation, it's worrisome to me and should be to any bird-owners/lovers; this is not the first time we've had someone like you who cares about living creatures and who has posted about a classroom pet that isn't being given what it needs to keep it happy and healthy...If you have to, show your teacher or whomever is in-charge of this program or who owns these birds this thread. Let them read our responses. Because I wouldn't be surprised if they don't take what you're telling them seriously. We'd be happy to talk to them directly if they want to make an account here in the community. Or they could email us if they feel more comfortable doing that. I'm sure they meant well when they set this whole thing up, and it's a great idea to get young people familiar with taking care of different types of living creatures. And some creatures are perfect for a classroom setting like this, like a lot of different reptiles and amphibians, certain rodents, etc. I am also a long-time reptile person, and as long as they do their research and ensure that they get the exact, proper lighting, diet, and supplement requirements for each different species of reptile correct, there are a lot of reptiles and amphibians that are perfect for a "vet-labe" inside of a school, as they don't require the same mental and physical stimulation as parrots do, most of them actually don't require much at all, and as long as their habitat is kept at the correct temperature or temperature zones, correct humidity (if applicable), they have the correct type of UVB lighting and heat lighting set-up and changed-out for new bulbs as needed, and they feed them the appropriate diet of live insects, fresh veggies, fresh fruit, etc. for each specific species, these guys can be extremely happy living in a classroom environment. Unfortunately, parrots are more like people than they are animals.

I mean, I'm sure that this teacher would never, ever, ever think of going out and buying a dog and keeping it inside of a cage in the classroom 24/7 with no toys, no activities at all for them to do, no exercise at all, nothing to do, no one to play with them, only letting them out to go to the bathroom and that's it, and leaving them alone inside of the cage every single day at 4:00 p.m. until the next morning when class starts, and then completely on the weekends. That would probably sound absurd to your teacher...So why do they think it's perfectly fine to do that to a parrot that has the intelligence of a 4 year-old human child?

 

[itzjbean]

What is the possibility of you taking in these two cockatiels and giving them a better home? Would the teacher allow you to do that? Based on your budget we can help you find a nice cage and really turn their sad situation around.

 

[Kiwibird]

I am actually starting to wonder- what are these birds for anyways? I mean, what purpose do they serve as a teaching tool if they are aggressive, unhandleable and not given an environment conducive to exhibiting normal behaviors?

 

[socktheconure]

My parents refuse to accept any more pets.

I would take them in if they would let me.