Hey! Concerns with Cheddar the nanday

[YUMgrinder]

Hey all! It's been awhile since I've posted.

If you remember, I have a nanday conure named cheddar that is what I like to call "dirpy." When I got her a year ago, she was underweight and the store had placed her in the back. I convinced them to let me take her home and she's now healthy, but she's ALWAYS seeking heat sources. Lately she has been sleeping next to the lamp we have next to their perch. She's always there. if on me, she goes straight for my neck and cuddles in deep. So I decided to put a small heating pad in her cage. SHE LOVES IT. Doesn't hardly leave it. My house stays around 75 degrees, and gets up into the 80s when its hot out so it's plenty warm, and none of my other 8 birds show symptoms of being cold. Could there be an issue with her being able to control her temp?! I wonder what the long term effects will be...

Also, she has not grown any feathers on her wings since I got her, she is still clipped from the store. No regrowth of any trimmed feathers. They look the same as they did when I got her, minus some wear on those feathers. She has lost and regrown tail feathers but no indication of ever molting. In fact, she appears to not be preening herself either, but I am not sure she ever has.

She cannot fly, or even come close. She flaps but it typically makes her lose balance and then she just falls off whatever she's on.

She sure is special and I love her but I am worried about what else I should do, if anything...?

 

[Scott]

Welcome back!

Warmth seeking may be a clue, curious to know what more medically-savvy members have to say. Possibly a thyroid issue?

The lack of moulting and preening is odd. Any idea of Cheddar's age?

Best recommendation is a CAV visit with lab tests.

 

[YUMgrinder]

Cheddar is about 1.5 years old

 

[Laurasea]

If she isn't in good body condition she likely won't molt as it a huge drain on them. Perhaps she could have parasites, or a chronic infection. Has she seen an avain vet? She might have been one of those forced Weaned birds. She needs a full work up. I would feed some calories dense foods, abd I always recommend hot chili peppers for the vit a and c and immune boosting capsicum (spelling?) Adding probiotics is a good idea too. Unhealthy birds don't molt, so I hope you find answers st the vet.

 

[EllenD]

Welcome back!

It sounds like she needs to see a CAV soon...It's possible that she wasn't allowed to fledge before they clipped her, which can cause a whole lotta issues neurologically, and would explain her not being able to fly, along with other behaviors. Hopefully she's eating solids okay and they didn't force-wean her too...

If her wings were clipped when you brought her home a year ago and they still haven't grown out at all, then it's quite possible that they clipped her way too soon...normally I'd say that the CAV needs to pluck some of the feathers out to see if they'll then start to regrow, sometimes that will spark them...And that might actually be the solution to that problem...

However, if I were you, I'd be getting her tested for PBFD, just to be sure. She came from a pet shop, she's having issues growing her feathers, she's not molting correctly, and she may be having issue regulating her body temperature too (this could also just be that she loves to be warm and toasty, just another quirk)...Or the entire problem could very well be related to neurological/psychological issues due to her being Force-Weaned and/or never allowed to fully fledge before she was clipped. I'm almost sure of that one, because that's exactly what happens, they don't know how to fly at all, even when they have the ability to do so. But when a baby is Force-Weaned, clipped before they fledge, etc., they can develop some psychological and neurological issues that basically make them a "perpetual baby" for the rest of their life, hence wanting to be warm all the time and while snuggling, just like "in the nest"....So it's hard to tell whether it's physical, psychological/neurological due to bad breeding/hand-raising/weaning practices, or a combination of the two, but I would definitely get her tested for PBFD, just to be sure...It's good that her tail grew back in, but bad that her wings haven't at all, nor that she hasn't really molted at all...You know they typically go through their first big molt around a year old, so if that isn't happening and she doesn't preen herself at all, it's quite possible that she has some developmental problems...

I hope you have a very experience CAV you can take her to, because you need one who is fully aware of what can happen when a baby bird isn't hand-raised/weaned correctly...

 

[noodles123]

I second what EllenD said about a PBFD test---not just a feather test but the blood if they can....That could stress a sick bird out, but you need blood work on her anyway, so if you get blood drawn for a cbc, you might ask them to do the PBFD at the same time. I am not saying that is what it is, but birds can get this and have issues with feather regrowth that worsens over time.
Really, it could be anything, but better to know than wonder.

 

[YUMgrinder]

Yea I kinda knew I would have lifelong issues with her when I got her, she wasn't eating solid foods then. When I brought her home she would only eat grapes. So I worked with her on that, and now she eats all the time (and is an dunker 100%, her food always gets dunked in water first, its cute but messy) but is very picky. I tried the calorie dense harrisons but she won't touch it. Currently she eats a mix of zupreem pellets (the colored ones) mixed with the natural type, mixed with a small amount of seed. She gets fruits and veggies as they are available in my house, and she will eat just fine. She loves sunflower seeds too. But really, the only two things she does is eat, and sleep. She sleeps ALOT. She will perch and does so mostly fine, but it appears she prefers to lay in my hand when I pick her up, not perched. She bobs her head a lot, makes me think maybe she's partially blind or something cause she's always bobbing her head when she's looking around, as if she's using just her perefreal(?) vision. She seems like a baby bird, one that never grows up. She has had vet visits, and its always been healthy diagnosis, but maybe I can get her into Colorado state university in fort Collins, co. They have an exotics department that may be of better use than the local vets. She appears healthy, minus always wanting to sleep, she climbs around her cage and play area at will, is alert when I wake her, makes baby noises and begs for attention when I come home. She's just too old to be acting like a baby still lol.

Thanks for the help. I'll make an apt with a specialist soon.

 

[clark_conure]

You might try orange juice with vitamin D added, available in any grocery store. It's sweet birds go nuts for it and the vitamin D is very helpful for them. It's good for their beaks and bones. And the best part is you get to drink most of it yourself. Me and clark share. Or let the bird dunk in OJ. that's also good for them, a good mix of vitamin C and D some natural sugars, other good stuff as well.

 

[Laurasea]

She doesn't seem healthy with sleeping all the time, with heat seeking, and with being thin, and not molting in a year and half! Those are some serious symptoms, I hope you can get her in sooner rather than later. My GCC who was recently sick, only took a few extra naps, but was increadably active flying playing ect. She also makes soup in her water bowl likely what lead to her being suck, and something for you to think about. She had a yeast problem, and was treated with antibiotics. I got a scale when she was sick , abd I can tell you she gained 4 grams now that she is well. I know you don't want to worry, and it's human nature to convince ourselves things aren't that bad.... But I want to stress that heat seeking isn't a personality trait, not is the lack of molting a personality trait, nor is sleeping all the time , or being thin. Something is definitely wrong with her, so please see the university or CAV as soon as possible. And we all learn from each other so keep us updated.

 

[YUMgrinder]

Yea I understand all that, She has had vet visits her whole life and nothing ever comes up as a red flag for the vet for some reason. I came here because I wanted your opinions and I'm convinced I need to see a better vet. The two near me that claim to be avian vets are hit or miss, I like one, but they never want to do blood tests, they say the physical exam was fine and that we just need to get her to eat more. She does eat a lot though so it's weird she wont get as big as she is suppose to be. One of the vets told me I know more about parrots then they do and they mostly only take in wild birds for treatment for injuries. And they claim to be avian certified or whatever.

She lost a couple feathers on her head like a month ago and the spot is STILL bald. No pin feathers or anything. That's what really made me think about whether she ever has molted even.

I'll get her in for tests, thanks all!

 

[Laurasea]

Sorry you are going through this, I had a bad vet experience too, we are all just people trying to do the best we can. But shame on vets to not do blood work! Even us humans have to get second and third opinions, I have a rare condition took me ten doctors and three hospitalization to get diagnosed! I hope they keep improving avain medicine.

 

[YUMgrinder]

its one of those things, the past year I knew something was off about her, but since she eats, drinks, and is active when awake or when I wake her up, I was just thinking that's the way she is. But now that I type all the problems out and talk to you guys about it, it makes me wonder why I haven't done anything sooner. I don't think she's in immediate danger, but she clearly needs a diagnosis. If you guys met her I know every single one of you would fall in love with her dirpy self. She is truly loveable.

 

[YUMgrinder]

 

[Sunnyclover]

So I'm sure you remember my equally "dirpy" (and mentally challenged)Nanday named Finley and how he was rehomed to an Avian Refuge. After about 2 months I decided to take him back home for the duration of his life on this Earth as I could not bare to live without him and the way he acted when I would visit was clear to me I'm AM the one he wants to be with and things have been going better ever since! Just thought I'd update you.
Anyways, back to Cheddar. Finley was force weaned and not fledged (my vet and I suspect) and he has many problems stemming from this also. He doesn't preen himself properly and even though I bath him every day he is pretty smelly. He has lost his feathers and regrown all of them and he's just over a year old. I strongly suspect something is wrong with Cheddar because she should have regrown her feathers long ago...even maybe twice. The heat lamp thing could just be something she likes but it's also a strong possibility she is not well. Please take her to a vet immediately because if it were my Finley I'd be scared he is not regulating his temperature properly and might be nearing the end of his life. Good luck! Let us know what happens.

 

[Laurasea]

Cute pic! Sometimes talking bit out helps. But you already were concerned and felt things weren't right, and now you know we all agree. Gotta save that goofy cute burdie!

 

[Sunnyclover]

Yea I kinda knew I would have lifelong issues with her when I got her, she wasn't eating solid foods then. When I brought her home she would only eat grapes. So I worked with her on that, and now she eats all the time (and is an dunker 100%, her food always gets dunked in water first, its cute but messy) but is very picky. I tried the calorie dense harrisons but she won't touch it. Currently she eats a mix of zupreem pellets (the colored ones) mixed with the natural type, mixed with a small amount of seed. She gets fruits and veggies as they are available in my house, and she will eat just fine. She loves sunflower seeds too. But really, the only two things she does is eat, and sleep. She sleeps ALOT. She will perch and does so mostly fine, but it appears she prefers to lay in my hand when I pick her up, not perched. She bobs her head a lot, makes me think maybe she's partially blind or something cause she's always bobbing her head when she's looking around, as if she's using just her perefreal(?) vision. She seems like a baby bird, one that never grows up. She has had vet visits, and its always been healthy diagnosis, but maybe I can get her into Colorado state university in fort Collins, co. They have an exotics department that may be of better use than the local vets. She appears healthy, minus always wanting to sleep, she climbs around her cage and play area at will, is alert when I wake her, makes baby noises and begs for attention when I come home. She's just too old to be acting like a baby still lol.

Thanks for the help. I'll make an apt with a specialist soon.

Can you video her doing the bobbing and other weird stuff? I'm curious to see if she acts like my Finley. It may give us some insight because he's definitely thought to have been force weaned and not fledged.

 

[ChristaNL]

Wow, a complicated little birdy there
I had the same instant reaction Scott wrote about - probably thyroid, then I went no- because being cold (wanting heat) and sluggish is low-thyroid activity, but being skinny is more of a high thyroid thing... so I got confused

You had a great idea in taking her to Colorado state university-> get as many crafty humans involved with this one as you can, Cheddar deserves it.


I do want to attack anyone, but I never come across these issues in NL- and I really think it has something to do with this 'take birds out of the nest before they are ready to fledge'-- it is really, really hard to do the parrot-parent-job. I feel stronlgy it should be the exeption (interfere only to save lives) instead of the norm.

 

[EllenD]

You might try orange juice with vitamin D added, available in any grocery store. It's sweet birds go nuts for it and the vitamin D is very helpful for them. It's good for their beaks and bones. And the best part is you get to drink most of it yourself. Me and clark share. Or let the bird dunk in OJ. that's also good for them, a good mix of vitamin C and D some natural sugars, other good stuff as well.

Watch the orange juice, as citrus fruit isn't something any bird should have on a regular basis, or really much at all except a very occasional treat. The citric acid enhances their absorption of Iron, and birds cannot handle much Iron at all, they develop "Iron Storage Syndrome/Disease", which can be fatal quickly...So go easy on any citrus fruit or juice.

 

[EllenD]

So I'm sure you remember my equally "dirpy" (and mentally challenged)Nanday named Finley and how he was rehomed to an Avian Refuge. After about 2 months I decided to take him back home for the duration of his life on this Earth as I could not bare to live without him and the way he acted when I would visit was clear to me I'm AM the one he wants to be with and things have been going better ever since! Just thought I'd update you.
Anyways, back to Cheddar. Finley was force weaned and not fledged (my vet and I suspect) and he has many problems stemming from this also. He doesn't preen himself properly and even though I bath him every day he is pretty smelly. He has lost his feathers and regrown all of them and he's just over a year old. I strongly suspect something is wrong with Cheddar because she should have regrown her feathers long ago...even maybe twice. The heat lamp thing could just be something she likes but it's also a strong possibility she is not well. Please take her to a vet immediately because if it were my Finley I'd be scared he is not regulating his temperature properly and might be nearing the end of his life. Good luck! Let us know what happens.

Exactly the example I was thinking of YumGrinder...What I wrote about severe neurological issues wasn't just me talking, I've seen it first-hand many, many times at both the Rescue I work at and with birds that were sold by a breeder unweaned to someone who had no idea what they were doing...

At a minimum you want routine blood-work done with a test for PBFD added on, and I'd get that done ASAP, because if it does happen to be positive, there are things you can do/supplements you can start giving that have been extremely helpful in the supportive care of birds with PBFD. I don't think it's PBFD from what you describe, I think he was Force-Weaned and clipped well before he fledged by a horrible breeder...However, with PBFD you cannot be too cautious or guess, because it is fatal and has no cure...

Please at least get some blood-work done with your normal CAV, and once you get those results back then try the U of Colorado and see if they might have someone who specializes or knows of someone who is an Avian Behavioralist, because if it's just a matter of him being Force-Weaned and clipped before he fledged, the only thing you can do is to work with a behavioralist...well, that's not true, they are using SSRI's and other drugs to treat these problems in birds, but those outcomes are a bit hit or miss...

 

[noodles123]

You might try orange juice with vitamin D added, available in any grocery store. It's sweet birds go nuts for it and the vitamin D is very helpful for them. It's good for their beaks and bones. And the best part is you get to drink most of it yourself. Me and clark share. Or let the bird dunk in OJ. that's also good for them, a good mix of vitamin C and D some natural sugars, other good stuff as well.

I just wanted to caution users against feeding birds foods too high in vitamin c, as it can lead to iron storage disease. That is why citrus fruit consumption is discouraged (only infrequently/in small amounts).
LOL...I just read other comments and saw that EllenD already said this....Oh well...now 2 people saying it lol.