I have a question

[Grayway]

I've trained under state avian vets, I have a vet tech certification (small animal, not avian) and know about changing diets, handling, body language, daylight etc for a hormonal bird... but... no one discusses how you know when the 'inner alligator' is calmed and approximate duration, generally speaking of course. Can we start a discussion on bird enthusiast's experiences and successes in this area? It is my opinion the most common reason bird homes fail. It may help others, including the birds, and I too want to learn more! How do you all sail thru this seasonal issue?? Let's all talk to the newbies and those experienced yet looking for help/info. l'd like to hear some different approaches and new ideas..... go! Lol

 

[wrench13]

I learned Salty's body language well, so most times I know when he is not in the mood to be played with or for a scratchie session. There really is no substitute for knowing that. THe other thing I like to mention is that when the 'mones are raging, try not to establish a pattern that is a negative behavior which might be carried over after the 'season' is over. We don't handle Salty as much and if I detect that he is not in the mood for a training session, I forgo it. If your parrot gets bitey for stepping up to your hand during mating season, learn to use a perch to step up to. When the flood is over you can go back to using your hand or finger and the parrot will not have memories of biting your hand!

 

[Grayway]

Good advice, a nice start to hopefully a thread. Thank you.

 

[zERo]

So is the goal to get as much information concerning parrot body language or hormones? I understand the usefulness but I'm dumb

 

[Grayway]

No not really. I am not looking for generalized replies available in many articles about it, but tried and true methods used.

I am looking for ideas on how different people mitigate the extreme behaviors, especially aggressive behaviors. Many are aware of body language/indicators but what ideas/skills do people use to work thru these issues? Example: what do you do if you are simply walking with your bird on your hand and without noticeable warning the bird bites, not a nip, but a blood drawing bite? Do you keep handling, do you postpone handling, do other things? What other things? I am not at all a novice but ALL of us can learn from other's experiences, no? How does a newbie person know when 'it' is over? I've not seen a topic on that anywhere in spite of working with state avian vets.

It is that time again and many owners don't have more than generalized info to help navigate thru what could cause people to give up on or become afraid of their birds. I just thot this was a timely topic for those about to experience what could be their bird's inner alligator and ways to address it. Surely we all have ideas? I use a perch to pick up and take my severely aggressive hormonal rescue (7ish yo) bird for walks in my backpack or pet stroller. I sit right next to her cage and talk or read out loud (and more) to her as just a couple ideas. She is fully flighted- subject to change- and has flown off her perch, hit the back of my head biting. I don't want her to feel isolated and I am not interested in taking severe bites. She can't help it, I can't have it. A mostly hands free approach works for me, but I don't like it. BTW: She is normally super sweet. I certainly can't be the only one who experiences dramatic/severe changes in their bird while hormonal-or am I? I don't know her past or the causes, I just want to make a better future for her and those with birds like her.

Hope this helps.

So is the goal to get as much information concerning parrot body language or hormones? I understand the usefulness but I'm dumb

 

[ravvlet]

Ultimately both of our birds came to us as multiple-rehome “mean birds”, and while birds with serious hormonal imbalances or behavior problems most certainly exist (and any time untoward behavior is being exhibited repeatedly, a vet visit to rule things like that out is in order), sometimes it’s simply that the humans are not respecting their space and their dignity for lack of a better word. They’re really smart, and if you don’t respect their boundaries and instead try to make them comport to your standards, you’re going to have an awful time. This can be as simple as expecting them to want to let you pet or handle them really. You are not the one in control here - the bird is. I’d say 100% of the bird bites I’ve gotten were from human error, haha.

I think reframing a situation is the most useful tool we have. Instead of thinking, “that mean a*****e bird just bit me!” think, “I am a 100+lb over 4 foot tall primate and I keep sticking my giant bird-sized hands and arms in this little Einstein-chicken’s face!” The birds never asked to live with us, after all. We brought them into our homes. Our parrot can’t hop in the car and drive to the bird store and buy himself food or new toys or whatever he needs for enrichment; he’s kinda stuck with us.

The other thing is, the only thing we can control in any situation is our own behavior. The bird is an independent variable and they’re going to do whatever they’re going to do - but we can control how we react and what we do, and we can observe what effect that has on the bird and our relationship with them.

I would love for example if Sammy were as calm and sweet as Kirby is, but that’s not the kind of bird she is. When I let go of that expectation and instead alter my behavior so that we have less opportunities to have a bad interaction, everyone has a better time.

 

[Grayway]

Ultimately both of our birds came to us as multiple-rehome “mean birds”, and while birds with serious hormonal imbalances or behavior problems most certainly exist (and any time untoward behavior is being exhibited repeatedly, a vet visit to rule things like that out is in order), sometimes it’s simply that the humans are not respecting their space and their dignity for lack of a better word. They’re really smart, and if you don’t respect their boundaries and instead try to make them comport to your standards, you’re going to have an awful time. This can be as simple as expecting them to want to let you pet or handle them really. You are not the one in control here - the bird is. I’d say 100% of the bird bites I’ve gotten were from human error, haha.

I think reframing a situation is the most useful tool we have. Instead of thinking, “that mean a*****e bird just bit me!” think, “I am a 100+lb over 4 foot tall primate and I keep sticking my giant bird-sized hands and arms in this little Einstein-chicken’s face!” The birds never asked to live with us, after all. We brought them into our homes. Our parrot can’t hop in the car and drive to the bird store and buy himself food or new toys or whatever he needs for enrichment; he’s kinda stuck with us.

The other thing is, the only thing we can control in any situation is our own behavior. The bird is an independent variable and they’re going to do whatever they’re going to do - but we can control how we react and what we do, and we can observe what effect that has on the bird and our relationship with them.

I would love for example if Sammy were as calm and sweet as Kirby is, but that’s not the kind of bird she is. When I let go of that expectation and instead alter my behavior so that we have less opportunities to have a bad interaction, everyone has a better time.

Great points for many birds, exactly on point. Now, you seem to have some fantastic ideas so what would you do with the bird that flies across the room and hits the back of your head- biting? That type of thing is not related to body language, space, nor is it likely that I invaded her territory issue since I was leaving the area to get something. She is WONDERFUL except hormone season. She is a rescue bird, so I've no idea, aside from hormones, what the impetus is since that's the only time she is a terrorist. What I am looking for is ideas for myself and others who have a seasonal alligator. I guess my communication is off. To boil this down, I'd love ideas for work arounds when you know already use and are aware of body language and territory issues. I've no aviary to increase exercise to help redirect her energy, I watch her diet, I am trying to get thru this mess doing whats right for both of us. If going into my room is her issue she will have to adjust, it's not as simple as me changing this time...that's not an option. I can't let her fly in the house for my safety. I know about normal workabouts, but this is more. I do plenty of long walks in the backpack and stroller. I talk/read to her and give her lots of nontouching human attention. This is likely why she was put into rescue (guessing). We can get thru it but I would love suggestions, for me, for her and for others with birds like her.

I hope this makes my communication better.

 

[ravvlet]

I know you said you’re a vet tech, but have you had her hormone levels checked? The parrot store local to me who takes in rehomes on consignment has a yellow nape amazon named Baby who does something similar but he’s male, and he doesn’t just go for the back of your head! Last I heard they were thinking about exploring medical treatment options for his hormones. It happens with other birds too, like turkey toms.

Like I said in the beginning of my post, ruling out medical issues inclusive of an excess of hormones is important if the behavior is dangerous and doesn’t seem to be curbed by other methods. Sam and Kirby both bit but never went on the attack; they’ve always bitten defensively. Having one of them go on the flying offensive is definitely a nightmare scenario for us as we have young kids.

I could be wrong but I don’t think, if you are already doing everything else right, that there’s a “quick” fix for that kind of behavior outside of medical intervention or the other things you suggested that are difficult to access (aviary space, etc). They are, at the end of the day, not domesticated animals.

Sorry, I guess I’m just confused, I didn’t realize you were asking for help for a specific issue you’re having with your bird.

 

[Grayway]

She has been vet checked, it was the first option I took being an ex vet tech. I am not looking for quick fixes, just ideas on how to mitigate. I must be just awful at communication. This was not simply about my bird, yes, I can use ideas but--- really my question was supposed to be a discussion for others with birds like mine. My idea was to try to let owners know they do the have to give up on their bird. We actually have ways to work around and survive an alligator season.. I have experience and still can use help/ideas. Think about those who don't and need help. My idea was to help those people who may give up on birds like mine. My bird was brought up simply to be an example of the type of bird I was attempting to discuss. There are plenty of articles on the basics but next to nothing with tips and tricks for the extreme cases -to give an owner some hope, which was my intent.

Sorry everyone, I should've stuck with lurking.

 

[ravvlet]

No, sorry again for misunderstanding, you’re fine! I am sure someone with similar issues will have great things to say; it just takes a minute for those folks to find the thread & cook up a response! Which of your birds do you find gives you the most trouble? I think a lot of times folks tend to reply about birds they have the most experience with. We only have amazons right now and ours are both older and one has medical issues & the older is new to us so neither of them get particularly prickly with us yet.

 

[SailBoat]

I come at this issue of Amazon Hormonal events from a very different vantage point as we work with only Amazon, commonly much older, normally abused and very ill with no want to ever spend anytime with another Human!! This select group of Amazons had been dumped as if they are little more than yesterdays trash. As a group, they comprise the Big, Hot, Three of the Amazon species.

To avoid dumping an Amazon, Humans should be told: "Do Not Select an Amazon!! Let the Amazon Select (choose) you! For all mid to large Parrots, far too many individuals 'want' a Parrot and it has to: At this point, the long list of must haves come out!! Surprise, surprise, when Hormonal Season starts, the bird gets dumped! Commonly, the home is lite-up 24/7 as is the TV and their diet is 2023 junk food!

I am a professed 'Amazon Snob,' which means I have a deep love for Amazons. The near end-of-life Amazon that come to take over our home do not start with the Amazon choosing, but being dumped. What I do with Amazon in full Hormonal Flow; I do not recommend that others do as it requires a very focused determination of the status of the Amazon and what they want, but the chemical flow is blocking. That's not bragging, as it is much better to back away and wait for the the chemicals to reduce flow and the Amazon regain some connection with the here and now! Since I have to take our Amazon into our Vet that day to treat the current illness, I need to move an Amazon that I tell others to avoid. A quick walk though: Get in close and personal and make contact designed to comfort the Amazon and help shut-off the chemical flow. At a very precise point, request a step-up and lift the amazon along my chest. There is a ton of steps in there an confirming that the chemicals are easing. At the point they step-up they are beginning to connect to the here and now.

Amazons have a very clear Body Language (and their eyes) that can be defined and seen! That is not true with all of the mid to large Parrot Species. I have seen a growing number of 'Parrot Experts' and 'Parrot Trainers' use the cornerstones of Amazon Body Language and use them as a templet for the other Parrots. Yes, there are many over laps and honest take-aways. But not all. Plus New World Parrots, differ from Africa and Far Eastern and Australia Parrots and those differences need to be included.

Taken far to long here, but wanted to make the points that this subject is much larger than a single Thread can address as specific issues exist at different points of the year and that does not ever get into how different illness can affect behaviors

NOTE: This year, in the Northern Hemisphere, has been a nightmare as the vastly changing weather patterns have our Parrots pushed far outside of normal Hormonal Cornerstones!