I purchased an unweaned Grey before I knew it was such an issue

[newbaby]

As title states, I have an unweaned grey. She is 11 weeks old. She’s very active and seem quite happy. She has her first vet visit on Tuesday. My issue right now is feeding (of course). She’s a great eater and she’s not the first young animal I’ve had to feed long term. She eats using a bent spoon. My question now is how much is the recommend amount for her to eat?

Age: 11 weeks old.
Weight: 366g
Feeding method: bent spoon
Formula: Tropican Hand Feeding Formula
Preparation: 3 TBSP water to 1 TBSP formula
Amount she eats per feeding currently: 50ml
Her crop is not bulging at the end of these feeds and she’s always crying for more. I’d give her more, but everywhere I read says to feed up to 12% of their weight per feeding currently which would be about 44ml. So I’m feeding about 14%. When she done eating, she looks like a normally proportioned bird. Her crop is not empty looking but is also not overly full. It appears “normal”. I don’t know how else to describe it. I’m sure you know what I mean lol.

Here’s her weights since I got her.

August 31 361g
September 2 342g ( I’m wondering if this weight was accurate lol)
September 3 364
September 4 360
September 5 366

Also, I’ve been feeding her every six hours, so this means I’ve been getting up and feeding her at night. I’m reading that I shouldn’t do this? Doing it this way she’s getting about 54% of her body weight in formula each day.

Her poops contain both solids and liquids. The solids appear sort of like little snakes/worms and the liquids are…liquids lol. She climbs, plays, cuddles, “chats” etc alot.

I’ve tried soaking pellets to give her (Tropican no dyes smells like bubble gum?). She doesn’t seem to understand that she needs to pick the food up herself lol. When she tastes it she immediately does the “feeding reflex” and won’t try to taste it again. Just keeps doing the feeding thing lol. Should I be giving her water?

Are there other foods I could try for her? I want her to want pellets so I’m afraid to give her fruits and other foods that taste super yummy in case she then decides that’s all she wants.

Any help is greatly appreciated! Thank you in advance.

 

[DonnaBudgie]

I've hand raised budgies from hatching and it's a lot of work! Your grey will not be ready to wean for at least another month.
Thank you for using a bent spoon I stead of a syringe! It's a much safer way to feed a baby bird.
She should be gaining weight almost every day so i think you need to change something because she's not. The weight and volume of formula fed isn't a great indicator of how much shes being fed because a lot of it is water. If she's not gaining weight fast enough I would thicken the formula a bit. For a bird this age it should be thick enough that it mounds in the spoon and doesn't puddle. She does not need extra water while eating formula. I was advising someone several months ago who was handrasing two baby Ringnecks that got rejected by their parents and the babies were not growing. At over a month old they still looked like hatchlings. She thickened the formula and their growth took off quickly.

I would also crush up pellets (or buy some tiny pellets) and mix them into her formula and feed the mixture to her from the spoon. This will get her used to the 5exture and tastevof solid food and give her more nutrition.

Can you feel her crop before and after feeding? It should feel larger and firmer after feeding. If she's still begging feed her a bit more. She hasn't been gaining weight so she's probably still hungry.

I would ask your vet (assuming it's an avian vet), for answers.
Good luck and post pictures of you baby! Whats her name?

 

[saxguy64]

Great advice above! I don't have hand feeding experience, but I'm thinking that if she's still begging for more after you feed her, she's not done. Also not gaining any weight at that age is of concern. We have a thread here that also has some great information:

Thread 'So you bought an unweaned baby...'

Mar 28, 2018

Today I spent several hours trying to help someone save a baby bird they had purchased unweaned. The baby died; they are usually almost dead by the time the new owner realizes something is wrong, not because the owner doesn't care but because they are not educated about what to look for or prepared to handle the disasters that almost always arise when the inexperienced bird lover brings home a baby who is still hand feeding. So let's get one thing clear; YOU SHOULD NOT BUY UNWEANED PARROT CHICKS!

-The bird will NOT bond to you better, in fact it often DAMAGES THE BONDING PROCESS.

-It...

• SilverSage
• Replies: 52
• Forum: Breeding/Raising Parrots

• 
• 
• 

Hope this helps

 

[DonnaBudgie]

At 11 weeks you should have to feed after 10pm and before 6am as long as she goes to bed with a full crop of nutrient dense formula. Every four to 5 hours during the day using a thicker formula should give her enough nutrition to gain weight and no be always hungry.
When I handfed baby budgies I never measured the volume. It's a messy procedure so wouldn't be accurate anyway. You could weigh the baby before and after feeding to get a better idea on how much shes eating. I would just weigh once a day in the morning before feeding and weight would go up every day.

 

[newbaby]

I've hand raised budgies from hatching and it's a lot of work! Your grey will not be ready to wean for at least another month.
Thank you for using a bent spoon I stead of a syringe! It's a much safer way to feed a baby bird.
She should be gaining weight almost every day so i think you need to change something because she's not. The weight and volume of formula fed isn't a great indicator of how much shes being fed because a lot of it is water. If she's not gaining weight fast enough I would thicken the formula a bit. For a bird this age it should be thick enough that it mounds in the spoon and doesn't puddle. She does not need extra water while eating formula. I was advising someone several months ago who was handrasing two baby Ringnecks that got rejected by their parents and the babies were not growing. At over a month old they still looked like hatchlings. She thickened the formula and their growth took off quickly.

I would also crush up pellets (or buy some tiny pellets) and mix them into her formula and feed the mixture to her from the spoon. This will get her used to the 5exture and tastevof solid food and give her more nutrition.

Can you feel her crop before and after feeding? It should feel larger and firmer after feeding. If she's still begging feed her a bit more. She hasn't been gaining weight so she's probably still hungry.

I would ask your vet (assuming it's an avian vet), for answers.
Good luck and post pictures of you baby! Whats her name?

Thank you very much for your reply! I don’t have a name picked yet. I’m between Dolly and Sassy. Can’t decide lol.

I will increase the thickness of her formula. Do you mean to add crushed pellets to her regular feeds or offer a smaller feed in addition to the regular ones?

Her crop before feeding I’m pretty sure is completely empty. I can’t feel anything at all there. After feeding it’s more prominent but I wouldn’t say it’s over full. It’s not hard. It’s soft and squishy.

She will be seeing an avian vet. I’m very lucky to within 1.5 hours of the best veterinary university in my country. So that’s good news.

Should I be waking her up to feed at night? Or should I decrease the amount of time between feedings during the day (I’m currently doing every six hours including overnight)? So maybe 4-5 hours between during the day and drop the night feeding? Would I then also have to decrease the amount she’s fed since her crop won’t be empty at each feeding anymore?

 

[newbaby]

At 11 weeks you should have to feed after 10pm and before 6am as long as she goes to bed with a full crop of nutrient dense formula. Every four to 5 hours during the day using a thicker formula should give her enough nutrition to gain weight and no be always hungry.
When I handfed baby budgies I never measured the volume. It's a messy procedure so wouldn't be accurate anyway. You could weigh the baby before and after feeding to get a better idea on how much shes eating. I would just weigh once a day in the morning before feeding and weight would go up every day.

Do you mean I shouldn’t have to feed between 10pm and 6am? I’m going to thicken up the formula and see how that goes. Thank you!

 

[wrench13]

2 very important things with hand feeding baby parrots. Temperature of the food and absolute cleanliness of the mixing bowl/spoon, feeding spoon.
Never worked with the Hari brand, but here is some great info with a similar brand, Exact. Read carefully!

https://www.kaytee.com/all-products/pet-bird/-/media/1963C2C29FDA459FB9FA0822583872D6.ashx'

 

[DonnaBudgie]

After the first two weeks I dont feed after 10 or 11pm when I go to bed. Parent birds don't feed their babies at night. Just make sure the last feeding before bed fills her up. The first feeding in the morning should be at 6am. Weigh her before the am feeding every day and I think you'll find that she starts gaining weight quickly when you thicken up the formula. It shouldn't be pasty thick but more like thick yogurt or pudding.

Make sure you wash her face and anywhere else where formula gets on her while feeding like her neck and breast. Formula dries like concrete and is almost impossible to get it off feathers. I usually have to trim the feathers around a baby budgie's beak at around 3 or 4 weeks because formula gets stuck on them and it's the only way to get it off without pulling the little feathers and upsetting the baby.

Please post pictures!

 

[newbaby]

After the first two weeks I dont feed after 10 or 11pm when I go to bed. Parent birds don't feed their babies at night. Just make sure the last feeding before bed fills her up. The first feeding in the morning should be at 6am. Weigh her before the am feeding every day and I think you'll find that she starts gaining weight quickly when you thicken up the formula. It shouldn't be pasty thick but more like thick yogurt or pudding.

Make sure you wash her face and anywhere else where formula gets on her while feeding like her neck and breast. Formula dries like concrete and is almost impossible to get it off feathers. I usually have to trim the feathers around a baby budgie's beak at around 3 or 4 weeks because formula gets stuck on them and it's the only way to get it off without pulling the little feathers and upsetting the baby.

Please post pictures!

Sorry. Forgot pics lol.

 

[rheashard2]

A real cutie you got there! I know  zero about hand feeding. You're lucky many here who not only know the book but have actual hands-on experience.

 

[DonnaBudgie]

What a sweet baby! What's her name?
As stressful as handfeeding is, enjoy your baby while he's still so young. Baby parrots are so sweet and loving and you'll miss it when she grows up.

 

[newbaby]

Ok. Did thickened formula for one full day now and she gained 2g lol. This morning she was 368g and yesterday morning she was 366g. She’s also fledging age, which I’ve read they will stop putting weight on and may even lose weight for this?

Oh, and she’s not a big fan of the thickened formula lol. I haven’t crushed any of the pellets into it yet but will be starting that today.

Is there anything I need to do to promote fledging? I provide her as many hours as I can outside of her cage, but her cage is also large though for her to spread her wings in. Is she going to fly soon? She’s 11/12 weeks old now.

 

[DonnaBudgie]

When i was raising my first baby budgie i worried about how she was going to learn to fly. Was I supposed to try to teach her? Well, she just took off one day, awkwardly, for sure, but she learned how to fly in a couple days. It's important that you DON'T trim her wings (if you intend to) until AFTER she's learned to fly well or she may never learn. There's supposedly a window of time in their development that they learn and it may be too late if she misses it.
Is she a Congo or a Timneh grey? The Tinmehs are smaller (280-360 grams) darker grey, with a maroon tail . Congos are larger (400-600 grams) lighter grey with a bright red tail. If she's a Timneh, she's close to adult weight. If she's a Congo, she's not fully grown yet. They're both great birds. Some say Timnehs are calmer, less "sensitive" and more easy going than Congos.

I think at her weight and age and the fact that her tail isn't fully grown in yet she's probably a little young to fledge. She will when she's ready. Flying is such a strong instinct. To encourage her you could put her the back of a chair, stand a few feet away and encourage her to come to you. Is there any food she likes? A piece of a nut, perhaps, that you can use as a training treat? If not (because she's only eating formula) you could hold a spoon of formula as a "treat" to get her to flap and "fly" to you. When baby parrots fledges they do lose some weight. Their crops shrink and their bodies become more streamlined for flight.
You should start thinking about training and training treats. Most people with parrots use a favorite seed or nut as a training treat. Read the BirdTricks website about training. People say their training advice is really good. With a larger parrots like a Grey, training is very important and you should start it as soon as she becomes motivated by treats. An untrained parrot can be very difficult to handle. I know your baby is sweet and loving but they dont stay like that. Even the sweetest baby parrot grows up into a not as sweet adult that needs to learn how to behave with its humans.

 

[newbaby]

When i was raising my first baby budgie i worried about how she was going to learn to fly. Was I supposed to try to teach her? Well, she just took off one day, awkwardly, for sure, but she learned how to fly in a couple days. It's important that you DON'T trim her wings (if you intend to) until AFTER she's learned to fly well or she may never learn. There's supposedly a window of time in their development that they learn and it may be too late if she misses it.
Is she a Congo or a Timneh grey? The Tinmehs are smaller (280-360 grams) darker grey, with a maroon tail . Congos are larger (400-600 grams) lighter grey with a bright red tail. If she's a Timneh, she's close to adult weight. If she's a Congo, she's not fully grown yet. They're both great birds. Some say Timnehs are calmer, less "sensitive" and more easy going than Congos.

I think at her weight and age and the fact that her tail isn't fully grown in yet she's probably a little young to fledge. She will when she's ready. Flying is such a strong instinct. To encourage her you could put her the back of a chair, stand a few feet away and encourage her to come to you. Is there any food she likes? A piece of a nut, perhaps, that you can use as a training treat? If not (because she's only eating formula) you could hold a spoon of formula as a "treat" to get her to flap and "fly" to you. When baby parrots fledges they do lose some weight. Their crops shrink and their bodies become more streamlined for flight.
You should start thinking about training and training treats. Most people with parrots use a favorite seed or nut as a training treat. Read the BirdTricks website about training. People say their training advice is really good. With a larger parrots like a Grey, training is very important and you should start it as soon as she becomes motivated by treats. An untrained parrot can be very difficult to handle. I know your baby is sweet and loving but they dont stay like that. Even the sweetest baby parrot grows up into a not as sweet adult that needs to learn how to behave with its humans.

Thank you for the suggestions! She’s a Congo grey. I don’t plan on trimming her wings. The only things she had that aren’t formula were some cooked veggies that I’m sure she doesn’t realize are food lol. All she did was lick them. Then she’s had some pellets soaked in formula. She knows that is food, but once she tastes it she just does the feeding reflex thing and doesn’t try to nibble it again. I’ll check out the website you suggested.

 

[rheashard2]

While tempting it's not recommended to trim wings until after your bird has learned to fly and land. Think of it as learning to roller skate or ride a two wheel bike. The crashing stops into walls, fences are plentiful. In birds that crash can lead to broken bones especially the breast. Also birds were created to fly. Fear, excitement, a strong breeze and your bird can be lost. Yes they can get airborne with wing trims. Your baby is young enough for you to consider an avian leash. They exist. My 21 yo CAG has been wearing one on outings since she was just over 3 months old. She even wears it in her travel carrier. For some reason occasional outings necessitates opening carrier. This has happened in car, bus, outside houng to or from vehicles and more. It's on if I'm opening and closing doors frequently (barbecues, yard work in Texas heat etc) and it's out of cage time. My CAG is a bit spoiled. She will demand to go outside. Even if I just put harness on and sit in car or on patio she's happy. If interested the brand I use is Aviator. It's specifically made for flying your bird. This pic was done after trip to vet for nail trim. Her reward was a trip to pet store to pick out a toy.

 

[newbaby]

While tempting it's not recommended to trim wings until after your bird has learned to fly and land. Think of it as learning to roller skate or ride a two wheel bike. The crashing stops into walls, fences are plentiful. In birds that crash can lead to broken bones especially the breast. Also birds were created to fly. Fear, excitement, a strong breeze and your bird can be lost. Yes they can get airborne with wing trims. Your baby is young enough for you to consider an avian leash. They exist. My 21 yo CAG has been wearing one on outings since she was just over 3 months old. She even wears it in her travel carrier. For some reason occasional outings necessitates opening carrier. This has happened in car, bus, outside houng to or from vehicles and more. It's on if I'm opening and closing doors frequently (barbecues, yard work in Texas heat etc) and it's out of cage time. My CAG is a bit spoiled. She will demand to go outside. Even if I just put harness on and sit in car or on patio she's happy. If interested the brand I use is Aviator. It's specifically made for flying your bird. This pic was done after trip to vet for nail trim. Her reward was a trip to pet store to pick out a toy.

I’d like to get this harness for her just not sure what size to order.

 

[DonnaBudgie]

Since she's a Congo she's still pretty small so she's going to need to grow some more before she weans.

 

[newbaby]

Guys, she REALLY doesn’t like thickened formula on the new schedule.

When I got her, I was feeding her 4 times a day. Every six hours including overnight so she was being fed at night also. 3 TBSPs water to one TBSP formula as directed on the bag of formula. That’s about 50-55ml at each feeding. She wasn’t gaining weight. She liked to eat though and would excitedly eat at each feeding.

Now she’s getting 3TBSPs water to 1 TBSP + 1tsp formula every five hours during the day and no more feeding at night. So her total intake in mls has remained nearly unchanged, but there’s been an increase in formula concentration and timing. She’s only gained 2g. She didn’t really enjoy it yesterday and today I’ve got to REALLY coax and convince her to finish her feeding at the two she’s had so far. She’s just not hungry after only 5 hours with the increased concentration of formula. But if I wait the full six hours, she would be down to 3 feedings/day which would end up being the exact same amount of the formula portion she was getting when she didn’t gain any weight. Ugh. Frustrating.

 

[newbaby]

Since she's a Congo she's still pretty small so she's going to need to grow some more before she weans.

I’m not really trying to wean her I’m just trying to figure out how to feed her so she gains weight. I just posted another update in the thread. It’s not going well.

 

[DonnaBudgie]

Go back to what works for her. Take a photo of the formula after you mix it and post it. It may be fine the way you were doing it.
You shouldn't have to feed at night but if you think she needs it go ahead.
Not all Congo Greys are 500+ grams. She may end up being a smaller one at under 400 grams. What did the vet say about her growth and development?