It's a toughie.
- Thread starter Joshuwaaa
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #42
I hate that I've said the most awful things about my bird. I love him so much. I don't particularly like him at the minute.
Don't worry, haven't done anything like hit him, get angry, I tend to just cry a little and get upset he is so hard x
Don't worry, haven't done anything like hit him, get angry, I tend to just cry a little and get upset he is so hard x
birdbrainzz4me
New member
hi josh, i was just reading your dilemma here. does loki have a stuffed animal for his cage. if not i would try putting a stuffed animal in with him. so he doesn't feel alone in his house. he sounds like a physical bird, and wants to be attached at the hip. i would try getting him acquainted with a stuffed animal when he's out of his cage and if he likes the stuffed animal it can stay with him in his cage when he goes. kind of like babies and their security blankets or pacifier's . i used to have male and female ekkies and the male who's name was tucker was a very clingy boy. loki reminds me of tuck, but i had the female to keep him company when i wasn't able to be with him at all times. or how doe's your conure react to him. if his cage isn't next to loki's then maybe if they were next to each other's just for the time being so he get's used to it. im trying to think of ways to help build loki's independence. but the stuffed animal idea might be a good one.
birdbrainzz4me
New member
oh i got another idea, being's he wants to be with you all the time, how about finding a good picture of you, to hang up or put it were loki can see it. maybe that might help. i know this might be a hair brained idea but some people use mirrors to keep their birds occupied, so why not a picture of their loved human, like we have pictures of our loved family members in our homes.
- Thread starter
- #45
Aww I really love those ideas. What sucks is today he has not been out for cuddles at all, because he just hasn't been quiet enough to deserve any attention.
I've been trying so hard for days to try and discourage this screaming, but as you can imagine a few days feels like a life time with a bird who just doesn't stop.
It's just going to take persistence and time, but at the moment I know jack is getting frustrated and I can't bare be in the same room
I've been trying so hard for days to try and discourage this screaming, but as you can imagine a few days feels like a life time with a bird who just doesn't stop.
It's just going to take persistence and time, but at the moment I know jack is getting frustrated and I can't bare be in the same room
birdbrainzz4me
New member
i understand it being nerve racking, just trying to help calm the beast. lol 
well i hope maybe the idea's work once he's settled down enough to get some attention. if you have to go by him for something try not making eye contact with him. if he sees you are looking at him maybe that is still a win for him. so i would still get a picture of you and put it next to him just don't look at him while you put it next to him. i know dogs are different but if one of my dog's gets into trouble and i refuse to make eye contact with them, it get's the point across that they obviously did something wrong, because they strive for my attention and when im not acknowledging them it get's to them even more.
well i hope maybe the idea's work once he's settled down enough to get some attention. if you have to go by him for something try not making eye contact with him. if he sees you are looking at him maybe that is still a win for him. so i would still get a picture of you and put it next to him just don't look at him while you put it next to him. i know dogs are different but if one of my dog's gets into trouble and i refuse to make eye contact with them, it get's the point across that they obviously did something wrong, because they strive for my attention and when im not acknowledging them it get's to them even more.
ruffledfeathers
New member
- Aug 23, 2012
- 1,970
- 3
- Parrots
- Gilbert Oliver, Blue Crown Conure; Georgie, Sun Conure (2/8/01-8/8/12) RIP little girl; Percy, budgie 1993-1999. RIP Pepito-spanish timbrado canary
i kind of understand what you are feeling because early in my journey with Georgie i had very hard times and i think i helped 'create the beast' so to speak. she was very spoiled early on and then simply didn't understand not always getting her way. she went through a phase where she squawked her shrill sun conure screech for long periods of time each day! i lived in a small place and there was no where to go that she couldn't see me, and she would continue to demand and got kind of angry.
It did ultimately get better. I started teaching even a few things that i would MAKE her do when she was being a nudge, in order to give me the opportunity to say 'good girl' and reward her, or even just to reaffirm that she needs to listen to me. Generally it was "go on your perch" (which was one particular perch, and when she finally went there, i told her she was good) or "step up" and made her do that step up ladder. It was more a way to redirect her attention.
In any case, i do sympathize with loving your pet so much but sometimes they can be unsettling!! Birds can be very very willful, but the good part is, that willful intelligence can ultimately be redirected for good.
It did ultimately get better. I started teaching even a few things that i would MAKE her do when she was being a nudge, in order to give me the opportunity to say 'good girl' and reward her, or even just to reaffirm that she needs to listen to me. Generally it was "go on your perch" (which was one particular perch, and when she finally went there, i told her she was good) or "step up" and made her do that step up ladder. It was more a way to redirect her attention.
In any case, i do sympathize with loving your pet so much but sometimes they can be unsettling!! Birds can be very very willful, but the good part is, that willful intelligence can ultimately be redirected for good.
If you are waiting for that to stop before you let him out he may be mighty old!
My Sailor, who turned 3 in August, was doing that before I started playing this recording you made. They DO that. That is a typical Eclectus noise.
Not every Eclectus makes that noise, but they are all capable of it. And, btw, that is not his loud noise. That is just his "I'm disgruntled and want to do something besides sit here" noise.
If you take him out and get him flying around and wear him out, he's a lot more likely to find something to amuse himself instead of waiting on you.
My Sailor, who turned 3 in August, was doing that before I started playing this recording you made. They DO that. That is a typical Eclectus noise.
Not every Eclectus makes that noise, but they are all capable of it. And, btw, that is not his loud noise. That is just his "I'm disgruntled and want to do something besides sit here" noise.
If you take him out and get him flying around and wear him out, he's a lot more likely to find something to amuse himself instead of waiting on you.
drlisaort
New member
I'm so sorry Josh your Loki is having a rough time. I really don't have any advice to give you that hasn't already been given, but I just wanted to let you know how terrible I feel for you, Jack, Cricket and of course Loki. I do recall reading older posts where their newly acquired parrot was screaming for weeks and then it did stop. So hang in there...and search out some of those old posts. I can't tell you how many older posts I've read that have helped answer (and solve!) so many of my earlier concerns...and to date I still surf the older posts for information.
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I have been silently stalking this thread and I just wanted to send you internet hugs over what a time you have been having with Loki. I saw how excited you were when you got him, and how that excitement has been "screamed" out of you. I can't claim to know or understand the feeling, however, I would like to suggest against the grain here, that you stop ignoring your bird. Obviously, ignoring him is not working. He seems desperate to either get attention or to prove that he can demand attention. I am working off of what six months of bathroom reading Mattie Sue Athan's book "Guide to Companion Parrot Behavior" has taught me. By no means am I qualified to give out advice on a screaming parrot, but at this point it seems like time is running out for your sanity. Here we go:
Redundant Screaming is the term that Athan uses to describe what Loki is doing, she says that it is a habitual behavior that stems from some sort of reinforcement, usually human induced. However, the reinforcement could just be Loki enjoying hearing the sound of his own voice. At this point I believe it is safe to say that his Redundant Screaming is permanent part of his behavioral environment. Athan states that most screaming behaviors begin as attention demanding behaviors, with the intent of soliciting a reaction of a human caretaker; be it positive or negative.
However, parrots also scream for personal enjoyment, and at this point I would beg to guess that Loki is not only screaming because he is lonely, stressed, and it is fun for him; but also as a way to keep himself entertained. You need to find a way to make Loki switch his current destructive behavior into a quieter, self-rewarding behavior. Athan says that there are three steps to correcting obsessive screaming:
1. Evaluate Specific Characteristics of the Problem: This is achieved by carefully and methodically evaluating the bird and the birds current environment. Look into cage size, location, dept, height. Look for creative foraging opportunities, do they exist in the birds cage and/or environment? Does the bird have access to several interesting and intriguing things to do, multiple branches to climb and peal, chewable toys, interactive toys, toys that make sounds? Does the bird have adequate lighting, and a consistent 12/12 hour cycle of light and dark? Fresh water? Is the birds eating schedule regular? Is his diet diverse, interesting, and nutritious? Does the bird have adequate social time of one on one interaction (towel-games, talking, stepping up, petting, etc.) and some side by side interactions (watching TV, eating, showering)? Does the bird have access to bathing facilities? Does the bird get enough exercise? Does the bird get enough simulation outside of the usual domain? Does the bird have a way to tell the passage of time, ie. a TV set on a timer? Athan states that if anyone of the above issues exists then the bird has cause to scream, and the simple act of setting a schedule or cleaning a water bowl can help eliminate the issues of screaming.
My personal opinion on this is that (along with other underlying issues) your bird is being denied crucial interaction due to your feelings of hostility towards his screaming, ignore the potential side effects of screaming to begin with and spend time enjoying your bird. If needed, don't cage him. When you are done playing one on one, put him on the back of the couch and do home work, or watch TV, or play on the computer, do something with him near you.
Back to Athan's advice; begin keeping a log of the exact times that your bird screams, this will be crucial to stopping excess screaming. Try to determine the cause of the screaming (ie, when you leave the room), however, understand that the issue is not you leaving the room, but Loki giving an unreasonable demand. Simply, Loki has not learned to be an independent bird, and is under socialized, he has not learned to entertain himself while you are away.
Begin by protecting the tempers and ears of your housemates by providing ear protection, this will help in the stress and anger generated by Loki's constant screaming. Also, play soft and relaxing music in the home to help with the screams generated by Loki hearing you move about the home.
2. Anticipate the Instances of Screaming before they occur:this is where your diligent record keeping comes in, Athan compares solving a screaming issue in parrots to solving a murder mystery. Its all about lining up the clues, and determining which ones are relevant to the case. Athan works off of a 21 day rehabilitation timeline, in which EVERY POSSIBLE INCIDENT of screaming MUST be stopped before it occurs. No more screaming. At all. This is of course, once you confirm the cause of Loki's behavior using Step 1. Once you know the problem causing the screaming you can take steps to advert the behavior by removing the stimulus, or by offering distractions before the behavior occurs. Athan explains this process by explaining a situation in which she was able to advert morning screaming by temptingly ringing her birds bell right in his face to encourage him to attack the bell while she left the room, thereby averting any screaming he may have done as she walked away.
3. Provide Irresistible Self-Rewarding Distractions: Athan states that a birds screaming problem may be best adverted if the bird itself can rewarded for its good behavior. Therefore true, built-in, environmental distractions are the stuff that form true emotional independence in a bird. Simply, if the bird is instantly rewarded for independent behaviors the bird will continue to be more and more independently satisfied.
PART TWO: The Termination Stimulus
The second idea that Athan's covers is the idea that covering a bird may alleviate the screaming, if only for a moment, but ultimately it does not resolve the problem at its core. However, with some birds, you can use the technique known as the "termination stimulus" to give the bird a chance to regain his composure by giving clues about what is going to happen. Athan calls her take on this technique "flagging," and it is used to inform the bird that it will be covered if its current behavior persists. You begin this process by first placing the bird in a cage in which a towel is draped over the side of the cage from which the bird see's the most distractions. Remind the bird to be good, in gentle and soothing tones. If the screaming persists, vocally remind the bird once more to be good in the same gentle manner, and if it still persists place another towel across the second most distracting side of the cage. If further screaming persists cover the cage in a light proof covering, and leave it there for about 10 minutes. Do not forget to uncover the bird. It is cruel and pointless. Use this technique from start to end as needed to modify the birds behavior. At some point the intent of the "flagging" is for the bird to recognize one side of the cage being covered as a veiled threat to cease and desist. If the bird stops screaming with only one towel in place, you have made great progress! The first few times this occurs reinforce positively immediately. As the training progresses wait a minute or two, being sure that the bird has in fact stopped screaming before praising the bird for his silence. Wait a few more moments and remove the towel, if the bird remains quiet reinforce. This technique, however, Athan's says is not a fix all if the birds screaming is caused by underlying issues of missing environmental keys within the birds environment (STEP 1), those issues must be dealt with before such training can be used effectively. The bird must have learned a self-rewarding behavior and be on his way to an independent member of the family.
PART THREE: Exploiting the Environment
The importance of exercise and bathing is emphasized in this part of the behavior modification. Athan's states that your bird needed adequate exercise and must have access and in some case required bathing. Try bathing your bird multiple times a day, either through misting or a gentle human shower. Just the act of grooming after a bath is self-rewarding and may begin to modify the screaming. Also begin a strict feeding and exercise schedule.( ie, Loki should be fed __________ at _________O'clock. Loki should be allowed to fly, play the towel game, or bathe at ___________, ____________, and ______________O'clock.) Provide interesting and unique toys and foraging interactions to Loki, perhaps on a string (7 really cool toys rotated for each day of the week). The idea is to allow Loki to learn how to play by himself, quietly. I hope this may have helped you some.
Please, above all else learn to enjoy your bird again. Get to know him as an individual, and most important of all learn to have a blast with your new pal!
Best Wishes,
Anna and the Kippster
Redundant Screaming is the term that Athan uses to describe what Loki is doing, she says that it is a habitual behavior that stems from some sort of reinforcement, usually human induced. However, the reinforcement could just be Loki enjoying hearing the sound of his own voice. At this point I believe it is safe to say that his Redundant Screaming is permanent part of his behavioral environment. Athan states that most screaming behaviors begin as attention demanding behaviors, with the intent of soliciting a reaction of a human caretaker; be it positive or negative.
However, parrots also scream for personal enjoyment, and at this point I would beg to guess that Loki is not only screaming because he is lonely, stressed, and it is fun for him; but also as a way to keep himself entertained. You need to find a way to make Loki switch his current destructive behavior into a quieter, self-rewarding behavior. Athan says that there are three steps to correcting obsessive screaming:
1. Evaluate Specific Characteristics of the Problem: This is achieved by carefully and methodically evaluating the bird and the birds current environment. Look into cage size, location, dept, height. Look for creative foraging opportunities, do they exist in the birds cage and/or environment? Does the bird have access to several interesting and intriguing things to do, multiple branches to climb and peal, chewable toys, interactive toys, toys that make sounds? Does the bird have adequate lighting, and a consistent 12/12 hour cycle of light and dark? Fresh water? Is the birds eating schedule regular? Is his diet diverse, interesting, and nutritious? Does the bird have adequate social time of one on one interaction (towel-games, talking, stepping up, petting, etc.) and some side by side interactions (watching TV, eating, showering)? Does the bird have access to bathing facilities? Does the bird get enough exercise? Does the bird get enough simulation outside of the usual domain? Does the bird have a way to tell the passage of time, ie. a TV set on a timer? Athan states that if anyone of the above issues exists then the bird has cause to scream, and the simple act of setting a schedule or cleaning a water bowl can help eliminate the issues of screaming.
My personal opinion on this is that (along with other underlying issues) your bird is being denied crucial interaction due to your feelings of hostility towards his screaming, ignore the potential side effects of screaming to begin with and spend time enjoying your bird. If needed, don't cage him. When you are done playing one on one, put him on the back of the couch and do home work, or watch TV, or play on the computer, do something with him near you.
Back to Athan's advice; begin keeping a log of the exact times that your bird screams, this will be crucial to stopping excess screaming. Try to determine the cause of the screaming (ie, when you leave the room), however, understand that the issue is not you leaving the room, but Loki giving an unreasonable demand. Simply, Loki has not learned to be an independent bird, and is under socialized, he has not learned to entertain himself while you are away.
Begin by protecting the tempers and ears of your housemates by providing ear protection, this will help in the stress and anger generated by Loki's constant screaming. Also, play soft and relaxing music in the home to help with the screams generated by Loki hearing you move about the home.
2. Anticipate the Instances of Screaming before they occur:this is where your diligent record keeping comes in, Athan compares solving a screaming issue in parrots to solving a murder mystery. Its all about lining up the clues, and determining which ones are relevant to the case. Athan works off of a 21 day rehabilitation timeline, in which EVERY POSSIBLE INCIDENT of screaming MUST be stopped before it occurs. No more screaming. At all. This is of course, once you confirm the cause of Loki's behavior using Step 1. Once you know the problem causing the screaming you can take steps to advert the behavior by removing the stimulus, or by offering distractions before the behavior occurs. Athan explains this process by explaining a situation in which she was able to advert morning screaming by temptingly ringing her birds bell right in his face to encourage him to attack the bell while she left the room, thereby averting any screaming he may have done as she walked away.
3. Provide Irresistible Self-Rewarding Distractions: Athan states that a birds screaming problem may be best adverted if the bird itself can rewarded for its good behavior. Therefore true, built-in, environmental distractions are the stuff that form true emotional independence in a bird. Simply, if the bird is instantly rewarded for independent behaviors the bird will continue to be more and more independently satisfied.
PART TWO: The Termination Stimulus
The second idea that Athan's covers is the idea that covering a bird may alleviate the screaming, if only for a moment, but ultimately it does not resolve the problem at its core. However, with some birds, you can use the technique known as the "termination stimulus" to give the bird a chance to regain his composure by giving clues about what is going to happen. Athan calls her take on this technique "flagging," and it is used to inform the bird that it will be covered if its current behavior persists. You begin this process by first placing the bird in a cage in which a towel is draped over the side of the cage from which the bird see's the most distractions. Remind the bird to be good, in gentle and soothing tones. If the screaming persists, vocally remind the bird once more to be good in the same gentle manner, and if it still persists place another towel across the second most distracting side of the cage. If further screaming persists cover the cage in a light proof covering, and leave it there for about 10 minutes. Do not forget to uncover the bird. It is cruel and pointless. Use this technique from start to end as needed to modify the birds behavior. At some point the intent of the "flagging" is for the bird to recognize one side of the cage being covered as a veiled threat to cease and desist. If the bird stops screaming with only one towel in place, you have made great progress! The first few times this occurs reinforce positively immediately. As the training progresses wait a minute or two, being sure that the bird has in fact stopped screaming before praising the bird for his silence. Wait a few more moments and remove the towel, if the bird remains quiet reinforce. This technique, however, Athan's says is not a fix all if the birds screaming is caused by underlying issues of missing environmental keys within the birds environment (STEP 1), those issues must be dealt with before such training can be used effectively. The bird must have learned a self-rewarding behavior and be on his way to an independent member of the family.
PART THREE: Exploiting the Environment
The importance of exercise and bathing is emphasized in this part of the behavior modification. Athan's states that your bird needed adequate exercise and must have access and in some case required bathing. Try bathing your bird multiple times a day, either through misting or a gentle human shower. Just the act of grooming after a bath is self-rewarding and may begin to modify the screaming. Also begin a strict feeding and exercise schedule.( ie, Loki should be fed __________ at _________O'clock. Loki should be allowed to fly, play the towel game, or bathe at ___________, ____________, and ______________O'clock.) Provide interesting and unique toys and foraging interactions to Loki, perhaps on a string (7 really cool toys rotated for each day of the week). The idea is to allow Loki to learn how to play by himself, quietly. I hope this may have helped you some.
Please, above all else learn to enjoy your bird again. Get to know him as an individual, and most important of all learn to have a blast with your new pal!
Best Wishes,
Anna and the Kippster
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- Thread starter
- #51
Oh thank you all so much! It's so nice to read such encouraging posts of support. I really thought people would just be mad that I was failing so badly.
I promise I will try everything to help sort this problem, I am starting to think that he screams when he is hungry. But I have been rushing and trying to get his food in before he has chance to scream, trying to stop it before he starts. But then he just eats and makes as much noise while chewing as possible.
Waking in and out the room didn't help unfortunately, as he just got louder each time I left, so I would walk in but walk straight the tele and put ear phones in as to ignore him. It does take him about 10 minutes of pure ignoring him for him to slightly settle, as in his call will be slightly quieter.
I thought I had everything in place but there really must be something bothering him, because nobody seems to have a bird that has done this so early on in their development. He has regular showers with me and jack, or gets misted to preen. His food is fresh and always prepared as he eats. He gets time out to run about the apartment, sit with us, play and we make foraging games. An we have rotated his cage tons. I think if I could, I'd get a new cage, something bigger, he still violently goes for jack when in the cage and sometimes out the cage and jack has done nothing but try offering food and holding him lol.
Yesterday was one of those bad days. Just hope today brings more joy.
Thanks everyone, il keep everyone updated on any progress.
Il keep trying new things until I find something which works
Hope your all well x
I promise I will try everything to help sort this problem, I am starting to think that he screams when he is hungry. But I have been rushing and trying to get his food in before he has chance to scream, trying to stop it before he starts. But then he just eats and makes as much noise while chewing as possible.
Waking in and out the room didn't help unfortunately, as he just got louder each time I left, so I would walk in but walk straight the tele and put ear phones in as to ignore him. It does take him about 10 minutes of pure ignoring him for him to slightly settle, as in his call will be slightly quieter.
I thought I had everything in place but there really must be something bothering him, because nobody seems to have a bird that has done this so early on in their development. He has regular showers with me and jack, or gets misted to preen. His food is fresh and always prepared as he eats. He gets time out to run about the apartment, sit with us, play and we make foraging games. An we have rotated his cage tons. I think if I could, I'd get a new cage, something bigger, he still violently goes for jack when in the cage and sometimes out the cage and jack has done nothing but try offering food and holding him lol.
Yesterday was one of those bad days. Just hope today brings more joy.
Thanks everyone, il keep everyone updated on any progress.
Il keep trying new things until I find something which works
Hope your all well x
Chikoo
New member
- Jul 17, 2012
- 240
- 0
- Parrots
- Chikoo (female Eclectus, 4yrs)
Rumi (male Eclectus, 12yrs)
I've never heard either of my birds make that noise. But both are capable of obnoxious screams, especially my female.
He's young, and I'm sure thats a big part of it. Just hang in there and do your best. I usually don't uncover my birds until I have breakfast ready, otherwise they make too much noise waiting for food. I slip off the covers, insert the bowls, and I have guaranteed quiet for a while. Maybe you should keep him around you more. I hope your neighbors are doing okay with the noise...
He's young, and I'm sure thats a big part of it. Just hang in there and do your best. I usually don't uncover my birds until I have breakfast ready, otherwise they make too much noise waiting for food. I slip off the covers, insert the bowls, and I have guaranteed quiet for a while. Maybe you should keep him around you more. I hope your neighbors are doing okay with the noise...
Josh, I'm pretty sure we got both our birds at about the same time, yours is younger and mine a rehomed job
Haribo, as we have called him, is currently waiting on blood tests for PBFD, it's very likely the results will be positive
I'm sure I have no need to even begin to put into words the devastation I feel for him, he's building up his trust in us, is a lovely little chap but this news, if positive, is unbearably sad for him.
So next time your little horror shrieks at you, just smile and be glad his mouth is all that's wrong and your aptitude, kindness and generous traits will see you and him through - you seem a very caring chap and it will be this that gets you on the right tracks with your little man. It seems he might well have had a harder start than most in life, perhaps he's just shouting his delight at now having found you
And while you're at it, get him to send a shriek in Harry's direction, he needs all the screams he can get
Haribo, as we have called him, is currently waiting on blood tests for PBFD, it's very likely the results will be positive
I'm sure I have no need to even begin to put into words the devastation I feel for him, he's building up his trust in us, is a lovely little chap but this news, if positive, is unbearably sad for him.
So next time your little horror shrieks at you, just smile and be glad his mouth is all that's wrong and your aptitude, kindness and generous traits will see you and him through - you seem a very caring chap and it will be this that gets you on the right tracks with your little man. It seems he might well have had a harder start than most in life, perhaps he's just shouting his delight at now having found you
And while you're at it, get him to send a shriek in Harry's direction, he needs all the screams he can get
- Thread starter
- #56
Y'know you say that, an ever since we took focus to what really matters. An took perspective of what he could have, we have had a great few days. Yea he is screaming, but it I sit and ignore it, he actually starts to quiet down. I know it's not a great deal better, but he is actually giving us chance to go to him and pick him up again.
He does sqwark but will soon give up when we ignore him. Lots better
Hope your all well
X
He does sqwark but will soon give up when we ignore him. Lots better
Hope your all well
X
- Thread starter
- #59
Moved Loki out the front room an into the bedroom. Best idea ever. We get the living space back, an Loki can come in with us without seeing his cage.
Best idea ever. People don't disturb him when they come over, an he can still spend literally most of the day with us, which I prefer. No noise. No bad behaviour!! All round awesome.
He's back to being my baby!! I'm so happy xx
Best idea ever. People don't disturb him when they come over, an he can still spend literally most of the day with us, which I prefer. No noise. No bad behaviour!! All round awesome.
He's back to being my baby!! I'm so happy xx
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