Live food, insects, catching bugs

[Ephy]

Strange question but....a bit of a background story with question at the end, feel free to skip to the question

...when Kiwi was just a baby and before we realized we would need to keep him as he was already bonded to us and totally dependent on humans...there a short time where we stayed with family that had just purchased a house with an ant problem.

Toally inexperienced back then with the mindset that Kiwi would be released back into the wild, him and I would play a "hunting game." I assumed I was teaching him how to find food.

So I would get down on my hands and knees, and he would hop along on the floor beside me, while I pointed out the stray ants as they came into view. ( i realize now how irresponsible and dangerous that was, but I had good intentions..of course there is no excuse for ignorance)

Anyways, We would scope out the ants normal trails, entrances/exit locations and he would snatch them up as I pointed them out. Sometimes i would poke the ant so it would run and Kiwi would have to chase after it.

Within 1 day he learned all their frequent spots and would sit and wait for them. He especially loved it when I joined him.

Fast forward a few years, now all Kiwi gets is dried mealworms before bed and whatever spider or fly escapes my hands. I worry he will ingest parasites, especially from flies and I race to kill them before he spots them, catches them and then eats them.

The problem with keeping a wild bird, (he is a House Sparrow we took in when he was only a couple days old) I am not able to take him for regular check ups so i really have no clue if he has at some point picked up parasites etc....i would hope i would be to tell.

Point of the post....are there natural, healthy/organic and safe live insects that can be ordered that are safe for birds to eat? I know now much he would love the game of searching for them and then eating them.

Is that a possibility for pet birds?

 

[Owlet]

of course! look towards reptile stores though as it's not very common to feed captive birds live insects. There's a lot of reptile stores that will ship live insects and I know stores like petsmart have live crickets and I think some other bugs.

 

[GaleriaGila]

I LOVE THIS STORY. THE VISUALS ARE WORTH THE READ ALONE!

I like your caution. I worry about bugs' potentially dirty diets, parasites, and possible contamination by pesticides, and who knows what?

If I were you, I'd ask a vet about how to find/order a safe bug buffet.
Links...

Certified Avian Vets
https://abvp.com/animal-owners/find-an-abvp-specialist/
If none are near you...
Avian Veterinarians
http://www.aav.org/search/custom.asp?id=1803
In my opinion, any of the vets listed here should be better than a regular vet.

Edit
Good idea, owlie!

 

[MonicaMc]

It was from my understanding that house sparrows ate a primarily seed based diet, so whatever you fed a budgie they could also eat....

Seeds, pellets, fresh foods, sprouts...


So it really doesn't seem like bugs would need to be a large part of their diet at all.


That said, there are flightless fruit flies sold at some stores... you buy an entire container of them and there's usually a lot in there...



And I also don't think they are illegal to keep as pets unless there's a specific law that saws otherwise. I mean, they aren't protected in North America since they are an introduced species and can be considered an agricultural pest. That is, unless you live in Europe where they originate from?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_sparrow#/media/File:PasserDomesticusDistribution.png


In other words, if you have this house sparrow in a place where the bird was an introduced species, there's no issue taking the sparrow to a vet.

 

[ChristaNL]

If you do not trust the pet-trade insects etc. there are also some people who breed crickets etc. for human consumption, so these are totally clean.
(sorry I forgot where on the planet you and Kiwi are, so can't give you any helpfull links)


Kiwi is probably the supreme spoiled sparrow in the world
there is no real need to give him more than the excellent meals already being served.


(and no, they did not originate in Europe, they followed the hordes -well the horses and their feed+ droppings - from Ghengis Kahn )

 

[Kiwibird]

So lovely that you have taken this little bird in and will give him a home for life since he presumably can't be released to the wild.

I know absolutely nothing about the natural diet of sparrows, but if insects are required, just buy them at petco or petsmart (ask the staff, they usually count out the crickets for you, but worms are bought in little containers of x-amount and can be kept in the fridge so they won't die as fast). With crickets, they're only nutritious if they've been fed nutritious food themselves in a (easy) process called "gut loading". Really, just have some kind of container they can't escape from (I always used a jar with screen mesh under the lid so they can breathe) and then feed them a commercial gut loading food (looks like teeny tiny pellets, typically sold in the reptile section or by the cricket counter). You need to wait 2-3 days between buying a new batch of crickets and feeding them to a pet so they can have time to eat the special food and become more nutritious. You should be able to find several varieties of worms as well as crickets of various sizes. Some more specialty reptile stores may also sell cockroaches, grasshoppers and other insects as well. While I've never fed them, there are freeze-dried insect options available too, usually in the reptile section near the decor and lamps and stuff in small jars.

On the subject of wild bugs, my leopard gecko got fed wild-caught bugs every summer and he lived to a ripe old age of around 22 (which is ancient for a gecko). My bearded dragon also got them and lived to around 14 (which is normal for her species). My newt still gets them and is over 10. Whether or not a insectivorous reptiles/amphibians have different levels of resistance to insect-borne parasites than birds, I can't say but none of my insect eaters have ever shown any signs of infectious illnesses and my gecko and beardie were perfectly healthy until old age and related issues took hold. The newt is still in apparently perfect health at about 'middle age' for his species. I'm not suggesting you take this as solid proof feeding a sparrow wild bugs would be safe, but in my decades long experience, I've never had issues doing it. Of course, they are caught in areas not exposed to heavy pesticides/herbicides/fertilizers like parks or fancy landscaped areas and if you chose to do that, using common sense re: potential dangers is advisable I did want to add, thinking about it, my dads cockatoo once got worms because he ate a wild cricket that got into the house. Or at least, that is where it was suspected he got worms. My moms amazon, on the other hand, eats spiders any time she finds one and she's never been sick in over 40 years, but being wild caught as an adult bird may have provided her some form of immunity. Of course, my he-diva wouldn't go near an icky bug. Only organic human grade food will do for my Kiwi

 

[bigfellasdad]

When i was a lad, i used to go course fishing, using maggots a lot of the time. One time i left a pot of maggots in the garage and when I got back a few weeks later, i had a pot full of dead flies. Would that suffice, if so, a fishing store may be an answer.

 

[noodles123]

Some birds do eat bugs in the wild---I know cockatoos do, even though it is a "sometimes" kind of thing. Mine wants to get ants, but be careful, as bugs often can carry poison from pesticides and traps and depending on the size of the bug/bird/type/dose of poison, this CAN hurt your bird (vet confirmed this when I called to ask about ants). Any worm from the ground or random bug could be dangerous due to the things they have recently eaten (even if it hasn't killed them yet)....
There may be mealworms and other insects that have been raised on organic compost etc that are safe. If a person hatched and raised the bugs within a controlled environment, I would assume they were safe (following q & a about that environment)...Yes, if your bird lived in the wild, it would eat all sorts of weird things, but wild birds live for shorter periods of time in many cases.

 

[Ephy]

Some birds do eat bugs in the wild---I know cockatoos do, even though it is a "sometimes" kind of thing. Mine wants to get ants, but be careful, as bugs often can carry poison from pesticides and traps and depending on the size of the bug/bird/type/dose of poison, this CAN hurt your bird (vet confirmed this when I called to ask about ants). Any worm from the ground or random bug could be dangerous due to the things they have recently eaten (even if it hasn't killed them yet)....
There may be mealworms and other insects that have been raised on organic compost etc that are safe. If a person hatched and raised the bugs within a controlled environment, I would assume they were safe (following q & a about that environment)...Yes, if your bird lived in the wild, it would eat all sorts of weird things, but wild birds live for shorter periods of time in many cases.

This is exactly my worry and why I feel Kiwi and I were very lucky in the past that those ants didnt seem to walk through anything and/or hopefully didnt carry bugs. Im kicking myself for being so naive and careless back then. I wouldnt dream of making the same mistake which is why I dont trust the pet food route either.

I think I will look into the raised for human consumption bugs. (Strange!) Lol but anytime I give my birds fruit or veggies I do a taste test first, making sure its very fresh etc.

If something isnt safe for me, my birds arent getting any of it!

Also, while Kiwi would normally eat insects in the wild, the foraging/brain stuimulation of hunting live insects is more of the appeal and why I am considering live bugs.

Thanks for all the great informative replies, I hope I can find what I am looking for!

 

[noodles123]

You could really easily raise your own....we had to do this in school years ago. With enough insulation from decomposing soil etc, you don't even need them in the house, as it will stay warm enough within their closed trough (with air-holes) or whatever container it is you put them in---bugs survive the winter in the wild, but you do have to "feed" them by adding bits of compost etc and watering them from time-to-time. You can get certified organic dirt and just make sure that the stuff you add is not chemical-laden as well. The only unknown would be the natural bacteria on a bug/worm, but assuming your bird is healthy, I am guessing they can handle it...


Certain poisons aren't nearly as bad for birds as others---the vet also added that. I know what you mean though---I freaked out about this too after contemplating the potential danger coupled with likely past exposure.

 

[EllenD]

As a long-time Bearded Dragon owner, I think I can help you out AND make you feel better about feeding your bird the insects sold for the reptile pet trade, which will make your life a lot easier, trust me.

First of all, wild birds eat lots and lots of insects, worms, arachnids, etc. The problem that usually occurs with people who try to feed insects to their parrots or pet birds is that they choose the absolute worst insects possible, usually the ones that contain nothing but fat, like wax worms, Black Soldier Fly Larva (BSFL), Butterworms, etc. As long as you're not feeding your bird a lot of soft-bodied, fatty worms, then it's great that he gets a mealworm treat! And if you want to make insects a part of his regular, daily diet, then that's also fine...

However, I don't ever suggest feeding any bird OR any reptile/amphibian any insect that is not alive, and especially not the ones that are freeze-dried! Firstly, they contain absolutely no water, and tend to cause consitpation and a lot of the time impaction. Secondly, most all of the nutrition is gone once an insect is freeze-dried, so there's no point at all to feeding them to your bird or your reptile. So if you want to feed him insects, like mealworms, fruitflies, superworms, etc., that's great, but stick to ones that are alive, so that he gets some nutrition from them, and so they contain fluid and won't cause GI issues in the long-run.

Now, the insects that you buy from pet shops, such as Petco, Petsmart, or any small, private pet shop (cheaper), or from any insect "farms", which do exist all over the country, if you get online you can order direct from them and save money, they are all perfectly fine to feed your bird, and actually much safer than any insects you find alive or dead outside, as there is no chance that they have been exposed to any pesticides or poisons, gardening chemicals, etc. Theses insects are bred by farms specifically to be fed to pets, everything from reptiles and amphibians to marsupials and primates (sugar gliders, some monkeys, etc.), to rodents, to yes, birds (from parrots to domestic wild birds, to farm poultry, to game birds). So they are completely safe and perfectly fine to feed to your Sparrow. They are the same grade that you're going to eat at any restaurants that serve dishes with insects...

Also, another suggestion I would make to you is that instead of feeding your Sparrow live mealworms, I'd switch to live Superworms, either the micro or the small size. Mealworms are basically 95% very hard, Chitlin shell, and that's it. They contain little nutrition, little water, and are 99% fat due to the shell. Superworms, which look similar to mealworms, have a very think shell that is not Chitlin, they are full of water, and are also extremely nutritious. They are very high in protein and low in fat, the exact opposite of mealworms. And you can buy size micro or small Superworms at any Petco, yes, pet and human grade. If you keep them in a little plastic tub with some oatmeal or oatbran as bedding, and you throw-in some fresh greens every morning, you can buy them in bulk (I keep hundreds at a time) for up to 6 months.

 

[Terry57]

We feed our Bearded Barbet Superworms, and our Laughing Thrush gets meal worms, all from the pet store and we haven't had any issues. Mealworms were recommended by a zoo I contacted back when we got our Laughing Thrush as I could find very little info on what she should be eating at that point in time.
I would be afraid to feed insects I found outside because of possible pesticide contamination.
Here is an interesting table showing some of the values of different insects:
Nutritional Value of Commercially Raised Insects - Gecko Time - Gecko Time

I will say that the values seem to change depending on which site you look at.

 

[EllenD]

I'm glad that someone else backs-up the fact that the live insects sold at pet shops are fine to feed your birds, reptiles, etc. I've been feeding live superworms, wax worms, and BSFL from Petco for years and years, and also from a couple of online vendors who are basically insect-farms who breed their live insects organically, use no pesticides, chemicals, etc., feed them only organic veggies and pulses, etc.

And just to back-up what Terry said, I NEVER, ever, ever feed my Beardie ANY insects from outside, not once have I ever done that, and whenever I have her outside on her harness and I see her eyeing-up a bug or a spider I immediately grab her and get her away from it. You have no idea what any of the bugs or spiders outside have been walking through, living in, eating or drinking, or had sprayed on them. Many pesticides are meant to "delay-kill" them, meaning they can be exposed to the pesticide and be able to live long enough to carry it back to their nests in order to kill all of those bugs too. So you just don't know what you're feeding your little bird or any pet if you feed them bugs or spiders from outside. In contrast, all of the live insects sold from pet shops or online vendors are bred in farms who breed their insects to be solely food sources.

***Just another FYI, in addition to never feeding your bird any live insects or spiders that you've found outside, you never, ever want to buy any live insects for her from bait shops or sporting-goods stores that sell bait. The reason being that there is no one monitoring where bait insects come from like they do in the pet-trade, and a lot of bait places collect insects out in the wild instead of breeding them in-house. In addition, bait retailers are totally allowed to use pesticides, chemicals, feed them whatever they want, etc., as there is no governing body monitoring them...And this includes feeding them chemicals in order to make them larger...So ONLY buy your live insects from pet shops, online vendors who sell pet-quality insects, or directly from insect farms who are selling for both the pet trade and for human consumption.

 

[Ephy]

J

As a long-time Bearded Dragon owner, I think I can help you out AND make you feel better about feeding your bird the insects sold for the reptile pet trade, which will make your life a lot easier, trust me.

First of all, wild birds eat lots and lots of insects, worms, arachnids, etc. The problem that usually occurs with people who try to feed insects to their parrots or pet birds is that they choose the absolute worst insects possible, usually the ones that contain nothing but fat, like wax worms, Black Soldier Fly Larva (BSFL), Butterworms, etc. As long as you're not feeding your bird a lot of soft-bodied, fatty worms, then it's great that he gets a mealworm treat! And if you want to make insects a part of his regular, daily diet, then that's also fine...

However, I don't ever suggest feeding any bird OR any reptile/amphibian any insect that is not alive, and especially not the ones that are freeze-dried! Firstly, they contain absolutely no water, and tend to cause consitpation and a lot of the time impaction. Secondly, most all of the nutrition is gone once an insect is freeze-dried, so there's no point at all to feeding them to your bird or your reptile. So if you want to feed him insects, like mealworms, fruitflies, superworms, etc., that's great, but stick to ones that are alive, so that he gets some nutrition from them, and so they contain fluid and won't cause GI issues in the long-run.

Now, the insects that you buy from pet shops, such as Petco, Petsmart, or any small, private pet shop (cheaper), or from any insect "farms", which do exist all over the country, if you get online you can order direct from them and save money, they are all perfectly fine to feed your bird, and actually much safer than any insects you find alive or dead outside, as there is no chance that they have been exposed to any pesticides or poisons, gardening chemicals, etc. Theses insects are bred by farms specifically to be fed to pets, everything from reptiles and amphibians to marsupials and primates (sugar gliders, some monkeys, etc.), to rodents, to yes, birds (from parrots to domestic wild birds, to farm poultry, to game birds). So they are completely safe and perfectly fine to feed to your Sparrow. They are the same grade that you're going to eat at any restaurants that serve dishes with insects...

Also, another suggestion I would make to you is that instead of feeding your Sparrow live mealworms, I'd switch to live Superworms, either the micro or the small size. Mealworms are basically 95% very hard, Chitlin shell, and that's it. They contain little nutrition, little water, and are 99% fat due to the shell. Superworms, which look similar to mealworms, have a very think shell that is not Chitlin, they are full of water, and are also extremely nutritious. They are very high in protein and low in fat, the exact opposite of mealworms. And you can buy size micro or small Superworms at any Petco, yes, pet and human grade. If you keep them in a little plastic tub with some oatmeal or oatbran as bedding, and you throw-in some fresh greens every morning, you can buy them in bulk (I keep hundreds at a time) for up to 6 months.

Thank you for such an informative response. I dont know why I initially assumed pet stores would not have safe live food, but I am grateful you took the time to post.

I also never "felt right" about feeding them dried out food, because I see how much water they need to drink after, but I was really at a loss for a "safe" alternative.

I love your input on the meaworm vs superworm. Most google searches only make mention of mealworms. Thank you for introducing these worms to me.

I do tend to over worry when it comes to feeding my baby live bugs because I cant take him to the vet every week with all my extreme birdy momma drama..so I tend to worry too much, and obsess too much about what "might" happen.

I have already been in contact with canadian wildlife rules etc...at least a year ago...about the rules and/or how to secure a permit to own a "wild bird" what I was told was... that it is a "grey area" although they are not a protected bird, the concept of "anybody" keeping a wild bird could be complicated and that some vets may feel obligated to take them away. I would be helpless to stop them....and then what if he couldnt be rehabilitated,..they would put him down because he "is just another House Sparrow." So frustrating (sorry mini rant about the lack of vet care available!)

Juat Sad when all I want is the best for him, but I cant trust my local avian vets. But that is an entirely different issue, lol

 

[Sandy19]

I feed my leopard gecko live crickets from the pet store and she is very healthy.

My Senegal occasionally catches a bug on my porch, mostly ants. One time a palmetto bug got in there and she was chasing it, if she would have caught that thing and started chomping on it I would have had a heart attack. For those who never heard of them, they are like big flying cockroaches. Very common in Florida.

 

[Jottlebot]

I have a Common Mynah and about 30% of her diet is animal protein, which I feed live mealworms from a number of petshops, bits of meat and eggs. I've never had any problems and I wouldn't worry about safety of pet shop live foods.

I would think sparrows need less insects, but they are likely to be a small part of their natural diet. Unless you know they're necessary I'd only feed every now and then.

Just a warning... I got Spock crickets as a bit of a "treat" once, good heavens they stink and she did not give a hoot about them!

 

[Jottlebot]

Actually, just had a quick Google because I was interested and it turns out insects can be quite a large part of their diet, especially when they're raising youngsters. So, go ahead, get her some bugs!