New Aggresive Female Eclectus Help

[Andy.]

Hi everyone. I recently got what was sold to me as a 17 week old female eclectus parrot. The breeder advertised her as tame and cuddly and hand raised. He told me he wouldn't be in the day I picked her up but his farther would be so he would put her in a carry box ready for me. I picked her up she looked healthy enough but on getting her home and letting her out of the box she was trying to bite me. I had to wrap a towel around her to safely put her in the cage she did not like it at all. Now every time I get my hands close to her she try's to bite. she is defiantly not tame and cuddly at all. I move slow around her and feed her sometimes through the cage bars to gain her trust. Yesterday I let her out and let her walk around the room and on top of her cage, I decided to see if she would let me get close to her so I put my hand out slowly and wham! she had my finger and it hurts quite a bit. What can I do to gain her trust without my hands looking like they went through a mincer and possibly getting broken fingers. I don't now know if he was lying when he sold her me about her age and I haven't looked at her leg ring. I suppose he could have even took her old one off and sold her with a new one. I rang him up and he said he hadn't handled her since he weaned her but that would have been a matter of weeks. Is there any way I could determine her age? I've noticed that since I started feeding her through the cage with treats she has been screeching at me so I stopped that today. she has learnt to wolf whistle and say hello since I got her. He also said she was a red sided eclectus.. Can anyone help?

 

[Andy.]

Anything would help however I'm thinking up my own plan on training her and fail this Ill implement my own style of training that may or may not work but Ill keep you all posted

 

[coopedup]

First, be patient. She's not aggressive, shes scared and her beak is her only defense. Think of it from her perspective. As a baby she's new to the world so EVERYTHING is new and the only security she knew (the breeder and his home) have just been yanked from her and she's in a strange cage in a strange home with a strange person reaching for her all the time. Are you instantly friends and best buddies with someone you just met or does it take you some time to be around them to feel comfortable? Go at HER pace, just open her cage and let her come out on HER terms. She will approach you when she's ready. It could be a day it could be a few weeks. Being friendly and cuddly was because she knew the breeder, but dont expect a baby to be like that with everyone, including you...as you know, trust is earned.

Her screeching is likely her still wanting food. 17 weeks is still very young and just because he's weened her only means she's on solid food, it doesnt mean that she doesnt want formula or still miss it. Some babies wont fully wean until 7 months or more. 16 weeks is the usual marker for them being weaned "enough" to be sent to another home. As for her age, if her beak has yellow with black streaks in it, she's still a baby. Adult females have all black beaks. Dont give up on her, BE PATIENT. She's going to be yours for the next 50+ years...no need to rush things.

 

[Andy.]

Thanks for the reply and what you said makes sense its just she seems very aggressive but maybe as you say its more defensive than aggressive behaviour. She does run up sometimes and try to bite but maybe she is telling me to back off because as you say she doesn't trust me. She is letting me closer each day and I can see her defences relaxing but its quite a bite she has when she nails you. The screaming does seem to be food related and she try's to refuse her veg so I've started to mash sweet potato and mix her sprouts veg fruit and nuts in with it because all she seems to want is the nuts and seeds. That seems to be working but in the morning she does go on a bit. I've found she likes her mash warmed up a little and she takes it better that way. She has a black beak and the lower portion is yellow. I've put a pic of her on my profile but not sure you can see that yet. I'm not sure how to upload one on here

 

[Soyajam]

17 weeks isn't old, my girl is only a few weeks older than that if true.

You can tell their general age (very roughly) by two things, on female eckies.

• Babies often have light streaks in their beak (where as mature adults it's fully black)
• Their irises (and therefore eyes) are dark when they're young, white when they're mature.
  Babies often have light streaks in their beak (where as mature adults it's fully black)

Both of these things often begin to shift at about 12 months of age but the age at which this settles can vary per individual. But if your parrot has both dark eyes and a light-ish beak then you can safely say she's probably under 2 years old.

I dont know how you'd know for sure without consorting with an avian vet (or of course your bird's paperworK)

Now I am still getting to know birds so I can't give you extensive advice on her biting/aggression but I can give you some of my own experiences.

When Remi bites me, it seems to be because

• I go to pet her on her head, which she's not into, and I ignored her leaning away as a 'no'.
• I have stuck my hand on her cage while she's playing (she will often growl or stick her feathers out before a bite)
• She's in the middle of playing/chewing something, getting carried away and my hand gets in the way

Generally the best way to avoid the bite (at least initially) is to avoid getting to the point where a bite occurs at all. If for you it's because you put her on top of the cage, and you have to stick your hand up to get her off, then don't let her play there.

If the person who sold you the bird said he hadn't handled her in a while - having hands all of a sudden might be a bit overwhelming for her. So I think your interaction with her in her cage is the best point of action for now, as it gives her a safe place to watch you and be comfortable.

If she's young like you say - then her screeches are either for attention or hunger. When my bird hears the microwave she screeches the house down, even if she's just eaten! When she is starting to get hungry she'll start squawking, and often makes these "double" squawks which we've noticed only happen when she's hungry. As soon as she's eaten, she settles down.

What are you feeding her? it's possible the trip home has made her 'regress' from her weaning progress, and if you're feeding her solids and she's not showing interest she maybe hungry for some comfort foods. If that sounds right to you, try steaming some vegetables and making them into warm mash. My girl gobbles it down - and only now is she comfortable enough that she's starting to experiment with solids (and even then, her favourites are still soft)

The other reason Remi screeches is for comfort. She loves my partner and when she's home, she will always squawk when she's with him. I'm not quite sure what it means yet but I think it's just a bit of excitement to be with her favourite person.
She will sit on his shoulder and just squawk herself to sleep. Often in her excitement when we get home from work, she'll just be so worked up she can't even eat, and she'll just squawk until she's a bit more relaxed, and then quietly eat.

I'm told some of these squawks will recede once she matures - but I'm not sure which of those are going to go and which ones I need to train into talking instead. It is likely you'll experience the same thing if you have a 17 week old.

This is probably a lot of info but I hope it helps in some capacity. Have a read through more of the eckie forums as many people have gone through what you're going through before.

Also, I can't see your avatar here but i can see a tiny version on your profile. Hmmm.

 

[LordTriggs]

definitely fear. How would you feel in that situation, not knowing what's going on? Like any parrot you have to prove that you're a friend and that can and often does take time.

Remember for the whole time you have her that "aggression" is the bottom of the list for a bite, there is a reason for each and every bite that you will have to learn so you can avoid/correct them in the future

 

[Andy.]

Thanks for your input. I'm basically feeding her a bit of everything all mixed together, Broccoli, Cauliflower, Sweet potato, Peppers, Sweet Peppers, Sweet corn, Peas, Brussel sprouts, Sprouts, Carrots, Seeds and nuts and a variety of fruits. Sometimes I mix with sweet potato sometimes not. I also giver her the occasional dried fig as a treat. Although she gets a wide variety of food she is very wasteful and tries to pick out all she wants so over time I'm going to reduce the seed and nuts gradually. This morning she tipped her bowl after she took the good bits and she has started to do that quite often and scream at me after. Papers for this Parrot are not needed over here so really all you can do is hope the breeder is truthful. She does seem adolescent to me now I've had her a week or so. She may have been weaned on nut and seed mix as well as pellets. When I picker her up I was given a little seed and nut mix but the breeder said she was weaned on pellets

 

[LordTriggs]

andy just noticed you're a fellow brit. You do need paperwork regarding an Eclectus over here as they're on Addendum 2 of the Cites list, included with that should be a hatch certificate. You need to get that certificate ASAP if you don't have it. I would report the breeder if they have given you nothing as they've broken the law. We've got harder laws here regarding parrots than most countries on the planet

 

[Jottlebot]

It does sound a little bit suspicious... the breeder wasn't in, she was already in a travel cage... she's been hand reared, but not handled for a few weeks...no paperwork...nothing that is definitely wrong (other than the paperwork sadly) and if the seller is answering his phone to you that's good.

All you can do is give her time and space (literally). It's good that you're able to get closer each time you try, but if you stop because she gets aggressive or tries to bite you're teaching her that that is a good way to get you to go away. You need to stop trying to approach just before she feels uncomfortable. I wouldn't try and interact with her when she's in her cage other than through the bars. I've never reached in to my birds' cages to get them out, partly it's just preference, but I think it helps nervous birds to have somewhere safe.

As I understand it a CITES bird needs a microchip or a solid leg band, so the breeder will not have been able to change it to mislead you about the age as they only fit onto very young birds. That being said, leg rings don't have to contain any particular information, although hatch year is common. So it might not answer any questions anyway!

Let us know how you get on.

 

[davefv92c]

time,it takes time.
even being involved in the weaning process and regular visits during that period.
when i brought Max home i gave him 3 weeks in his house so he could get used the the flow of the home,and surrounding's. spent a lot of time talking to him and cage side.
still tries to bite every now and again when putting him in his house,but have learned to avoid it with food tricks. try the food route as Max seems to have a never ending bottomless pit for a stomach and i have yet to find a thing he wont eat.lol
might be a good tool for you.
also if you can pick up a copy of this it is a good read and i have found nothing but truth about the bird

 

[Kiwibird]

Everything you describe sounds very normal for a new parrot. Just because some hand raised babies come home as automatically cuddly doesn't mean all of them do. Parrots personalities vary greatly by individual (some are very affectionate, others more standoffish, just like people it varies). As they are at most 2-3 generations out of the wild, they are still undomesticated and effectively wild animals at the end of the day. They aren't like dogs and cats who've been bred down through thousands of generations to exhibit desirable qualities and personality traits.

The "gold standard" for earning a new birds trust is to start by sitting near their cage and talking with them or reading to them. Doesn't really matter what you say or read, just as long as you do so in a calm, soothing voice. This is so the bird learns you are not a threat. As she becomes more comfortable (that could be weeks or even months) and approaches you, have treats on hand to reward her. You can also bring a healthy snack (like grapes or carrots) and eat them while talking to her. When she becomes interested in the food, offer her some. Birds share food with flock mates, so sharing your (bird friendly) foods with her tells her you want to be her friend! After she is comfortable around you, then you can move on to step up training. Remember, work at HER pace, even if it seems slow. It's not a race to earn her trust. Setting the foundation for a positive 50+ year relationship with this animal is worth waiting for and doing right

 

[davefv92c]

i would say all in all this breed of parrot are in the standoffish class
don't seem to like a lot of petting, i know there are exceptions but Max is not big on all of that. i have read in the wild they really don't have much of a defense mech from preditors
they more less freeze and hope the threat passes, which to me kind of put them in a shy place and Max is a shy fella when new people are around he will sit behind toys checking things out before full exposure to new folks.

 

[Andy.]

andy just noticed you're a fellow brit. You do need paperwork regarding an Eclectus over here as they're on Addendum 2 of the Cites list, included with that should be a hatch certificate. You need to get that certificate ASAP if you don't have it. I would report the breeder if they have given you nothing as they've broken the law. We've got harder laws here regarding parrots than most countries on the planet

Hi thanks for the info and I didn't know he had to supply paperwork nothing was mentioned and I couldn't find Eclectus parrot on the list that need paperwork. Ill be giving him a call now. He did ignore my phone calls at first but I finally got through. That's good to know because I know his name and Facebook page so he cant really hide

 

[Andy.]

andy just noticed you're a fellow brit. You do need paperwork regarding an Eclectus over here as they're on Addendum 2 of the Cites list, included with that should be a hatch certificate. You need to get that certificate ASAP if you don't have it. I would report the breeder if they have given you nothing as they've broken the law. We've got harder laws here regarding parrots than most countries on the planet

I just rang him he said he isn't required to give paperwork and I don't need it by law. I phoned someone else and they said the same. Maybe your mistaken because I see nothing about Eclectus on the list that require paperwork

 

[Soyajam]

The tipping bowls over and picking food out they prefer is very typical parrot behaviour.

Sometimes it does better to remind ourselves that we're really just dealing with feathered toddlers.

If she was weaned on seed and pellets, I'd feed her what you know she'll eat - although I'd say to go easy on the seeds and let most of them be pellets.

With the fresh food, it's often recommended to chop the food as fine as you can (I do it in a food processor) so they can't pick out what they want.
This didn't really work for me though, when I did that with Remi she just turned her beak up at the lot. I had more success with mashing it (it's all one colour/flavour) and I can fit 7-8 types of vegies into it.

Now she's interested in solids I've noticed she enjoys shredding the food too so you might find foods that appeal to the way she plays (without food) might have more chance of getting eaten.

I can't speak to the legality part (since I'm in Australia) but in a general sense if you phone your local council or animal authority (like the RSPCA even) and ask them they'll often be knowledgeable on the matter. If you're concerned that people might not believe you're permitted to have a bird without the paperwork (e.g a future landlord, air carrier etc) - you can always see if you can get written confirmation.

Hope that helps, and I hope she's settling in OK

 

[LordTriggs]

as far as I was aware both class 1 and 2 CITES animals require paperwork? Perhaps I got some wrong info. I'm always wary with people after finding so many who have no idea (ran into someone trying to sell U2 eggs the other day which is super illegal)

 

[Andy.]

Thanks yes it does Ill try mashing her greens up too. No screaming today at all only talking and whistling. I stopped giving her treats when she's been screaming and only give her one when there is no screaming now so I think she has the idea. She's a fast learner, now she goes wherever I want her to by pointing to the spot. Would it be a good idea to have her wings clipped until I can handle her?

 

[Violet_Diva]

as far as I was aware both class 1 and 2 CITES animals require paperwork? Perhaps I got some wrong info. I'm always wary with people after finding so many who have no idea (ran into someone trying to sell U2 eggs the other day which is super illegal)

I can confirm that no CITES paperwork is required for keeping eclectus parrots in England

Here's a handy short list of more common birds that require CITES in England

• [Mullocan (Salmon-crested) Cockatoo
• Lesser sulphur-crested (Yellow-crested) Cockatoo
• Citron (Citron-crested) Cockatoo
• Palm Cockatoo
• Lilac-crowned (Finsch’s) Amazon
• Mexican Red-headed (Green-cheeked) Amazon
• Hyacinth Macaw
• Scarlet Macaw
• Military Macaw
• Red fronted Macaw
• Blue-throated Conure
• African Grey

For a complete list - contact
DETR (Department of the Environment, International Trade in Endangered Species Branch, Tollgate House, Houlton Street, Bristol, BS2 9DJ)

 

[Violet_Diva]

When I first got Bella she was rather 'bitey' with me.

The key is to stay calm, be consistent, and stay within the birds boundaries and take it slow. Positive reinforcement is key.

If you jump over to my Bellas introduction thread you might find something helpful in my ramblings or from the comments from others, links etc

http://www.parrotforums.com/eclectus/64083-my-first-parrot-female-vosmaeri-eclectus.html

 

[Andy.]

Thanks for confirming no paperwork is needed. Ill take a look at the thread