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- Thread starter Saash
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Thanks Ellie - I have been going to that chart, its actually amazing how spot on it is - and yes, I have a question I posted on a different thread about this chart (I don't have the book - yet).
If you look at the girls, they drop to 4 feeds quite early - that happened and I got a big fright that she wouldn't accept food (we only find out its a girl at about day 26).
Then after the pins pop, she went from taking a massive 51ml feed, down to less than 40ml after a big growth spurt.
I am not force feeding with a tube - I am offing from a spoon - and true as goodness her beak jams shut at anything more than that, and if I try force it in there, she holds it in the beak until I'm not looking, and spits it down her bib. ��
I am very curious why the girls (1) drop the fifth feed so soon and (2) have this massive drop in appetite when their feathers pop?
Anyone have any suggestions? I'm not concerned, today she is 310g and the chart says 308, so we're all good so far.
If you look at the girls, they drop to 4 feeds quite early - that happened and I got a big fright that she wouldn't accept food (we only find out its a girl at about day 26).
Then after the pins pop, she went from taking a massive 51ml feed, down to less than 40ml after a big growth spurt.
I am not force feeding with a tube - I am offing from a spoon - and true as goodness her beak jams shut at anything more than that, and if I try force it in there, she holds it in the beak until I'm not looking, and spits it down her bib. ��
I am very curious why the girls (1) drop the fifth feed so soon and (2) have this massive drop in appetite when their feathers pop?
Anyone have any suggestions? I'm not concerned, today she is 310g and the chart says 308, so we're all good so far.
Last edited:
Ellie777Australia
New member
- Apr 12, 2019
- 1,280
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- Parrots
- SI Eclectus Female, Ellie; RS/SI Eclectus Male, Bertie (both adopted as rescue/re-home)
Thanks Ellie - I have been going to that chart, its actually amazing how spot on it is - and yes, I have a question I posted on a different thread about this chart (I don't have the book - yet).
If you look at the girls, they drop to 4 feeds quite early - that happened and I got a big fright that she wouldn't accept food (we only find out its a girl at about day 26).
Then after the pins pop, she went from taking a massive 51ml feed, down to less than 40ml after a big growth spurt.
I am not force feeding with a tube - I am offing from a spoon - and true as goodness her beak jams shut at anything more than that, and if I try force it in there, she holds it in the beak until I'm not looking, and spits it down her bib. ��
I am very curious why the girls (1) drop the fifth feed so soon and (2) have this massive drop in appetite when their feathers pop?
Anyone have any suggestions? I'm not concerned, today she is 310g and the chart says 308, so we're all good so far.
Hi Saash, just re-posting this from the other thread quoting
p.124 of Dr. Marshall/Ian Ward's book stating that "Between 4-6 weeks of age, many Eclectus chicks tend to refuse feeding for some reason. It is suspected that their eyesight is poor at this stage and they may flinch or become shy when approached too quickly. If at anytime during the handrearing process an Eclectus chick shies away from food or from your hands, you can place a towel over its eyes leaving only the beak exposed. When you touch the beak it should begin to solicit feeding once again. No-one really knows why they go through this stage, but almost anyone who raises this species agrees that they can be difficult to feed just before they feather."
Did this answer your questions regarding the feeding situation? Regarding the addition of Vitamin A, stick with what your vet said in that the formula is supposed to be adequate in meeting all nutritional needs at the moment. I did read that here:
Re: Help for Eclectus baby & Vitamin A
Thank you.
I did check with an AV who also said the formula is fine.
Keep up the great work
. How old is your son (Pickles REAL parront )? I hope he is having fun observing Pickles stages of development.Baby parrots of different species
https://be.chewy.com/baby-parrot-development-stages/
Tiny Eclectus chicks are naked, without down, so they are vulnerable to cold and need the warmth of the hen to keep healthy, according to Laurella Desborough, an aviculturist in Florida, who specializes in Eclectus parrots. If they are being hand-reared, they need more warmth provided in the brooder than Amazon parrot or African grey parrot chicks (which have some down).
During hand-feeding, “Eclectus take their formula much slower, as they swallow it down differently than most other parrot chicks,” Desborough said. “It can take up to 10 minutes to feed one Eclectus parrot chick.”
From Saydak’s experience, hand-feeding an Eclectus chick is “like trying to feed a moving target.” That’s because of their very sensitive and uneasy disposition during the hand-rearing stage. “They need to be handled gently and fed in a quiet, secure area, or they will display an instinctive lunging behavior, which can make feeding very difficult,” Saydak said.
Another rather unique behavior in Eclectus is that “the fledged and weaned male youngsters will fly to the brooders and try to feed the feathered babies if the babies ask for food,” Desborough said. “This seems to be an instinctive behavior, because it is very strong.”
https://be.chewy.com/baby-parrot-development-stages/
Tiny Eclectus chicks are naked, without down, so they are vulnerable to cold and need the warmth of the hen to keep healthy, according to Laurella Desborough, an aviculturist in Florida, who specializes in Eclectus parrots. If they are being hand-reared, they need more warmth provided in the brooder than Amazon parrot or African grey parrot chicks (which have some down).
During hand-feeding, “Eclectus take their formula much slower, as they swallow it down differently than most other parrot chicks,” Desborough said. “It can take up to 10 minutes to feed one Eclectus parrot chick.”
From Saydak’s experience, hand-feeding an Eclectus chick is “like trying to feed a moving target.” That’s because of their very sensitive and uneasy disposition during the hand-rearing stage. “They need to be handled gently and fed in a quiet, secure area, or they will display an instinctive lunging behavior, which can make feeding very difficult,” Saydak said.
Another rather unique behavior in Eclectus is that “the fledged and weaned male youngsters will fly to the brooders and try to feed the feathered babies if the babies ask for food,” Desborough said. “This seems to be an instinctive behavior, because it is very strong.”
Last edited:
Ellie777Australia
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- Apr 12, 2019
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- SI Eclectus Female, Ellie; RS/SI Eclectus Male, Bertie (both adopted as rescue/re-home)
Excellent content and link Laura.
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- #26
Thank you to you both for being so much help, WOW. The info is so awesome ��
Its quite interesting reading some of these experts and from what I see in my baby.
Feeding is becoming very interesting. Last week she couldn't really see and just went on sight and smell. Now that she can see, everything is changing. Yes, sitting in her box, any sudden overhead movement puts her into attack mode. She doesn't like spectators when she eats, if the family want to watch they must stay still and quiet. I'm using familure sounds to trigger her that we are eating now, that is working. I squeek to her, and tell her its time for Pickles num-num. She'll sit up and sqauck in response. She especially knows the chirp from the hand held thermometer I use, which she mimics. Shes not attacking the spoon yet - she's started bearing down in a low position, head up, to receive her food, like babies do with their mums at this age.
Today she's too fat according to the growth chart 'we' are using - lol. I'm not going to get too fussed over it as I see there's a drop in weight over the next few days.
What I've been able to find out, is (1) pining feathers is energy consuming, so there's a burst of hunger just before pins. It happens at moulting later also. (2) just before fledgling, they shed 'baby fat' to become more stream lined for flight - so we will see a drop in weight in the next few days.
And, on that note let me share a cute story:
This morning I fed her at 4am. I usually put back in her sleep box 'nest' but today I brought her to bed.
I don't close my curtains, and we have a cyclone moving in, so as the sun was rising the wind was blowing, you can see and hear the trees.
Baby started stretching out her legs, lifting her bottom (so now she's standing more like a bird, not a baby) and is flapping her wings with neck stretched out to the wind! Flip, how darn cute! She's definitely seeing much better every day.
Its quite interesting reading some of these experts and from what I see in my baby.
Feeding is becoming very interesting. Last week she couldn't really see and just went on sight and smell. Now that she can see, everything is changing. Yes, sitting in her box, any sudden overhead movement puts her into attack mode. She doesn't like spectators when she eats, if the family want to watch they must stay still and quiet. I'm using familure sounds to trigger her that we are eating now, that is working. I squeek to her, and tell her its time for Pickles num-num. She'll sit up and sqauck in response. She especially knows the chirp from the hand held thermometer I use, which she mimics. Shes not attacking the spoon yet - she's started bearing down in a low position, head up, to receive her food, like babies do with their mums at this age.
Today she's too fat according to the growth chart 'we' are using - lol. I'm not going to get too fussed over it as I see there's a drop in weight over the next few days.
What I've been able to find out, is (1) pining feathers is energy consuming, so there's a burst of hunger just before pins. It happens at moulting later also. (2) just before fledgling, they shed 'baby fat' to become more stream lined for flight - so we will see a drop in weight in the next few days.
And, on that note let me share a cute story:
This morning I fed her at 4am. I usually put back in her sleep box 'nest' but today I brought her to bed.
I don't close my curtains, and we have a cyclone moving in, so as the sun was rising the wind was blowing, you can see and hear the trees.
Baby started stretching out her legs, lifting her bottom (so now she's standing more like a bird, not a baby) and is flapping her wings with neck stretched out to the wind! Flip, how darn cute! She's definitely seeing much better every day.
Ellie777Australia
New member
- Apr 12, 2019
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- SI Eclectus Female, Ellie; RS/SI Eclectus Male, Bertie (both adopted as rescue/re-home)
"Baby started stretching out her legs, lifting her bottom (so now she's standing more like a bird, not a baby) and is flapping her wings with neck stretched out to the wind! Flip, how darn cute! She's definitely seeing much better every day.
I agree, that sounds so darn cute
I agree, that sounds so darn cute
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Ellie, your Ellie looks so lovely - I am starting to get ready for weaning, I'm letting Pickles see and smell real fruit, to get her prepped. I would love you to share that page 2 of the chart for weaning, I found the first one so super comforting for this stage!
Also, what is the care routine to keep a good coat of feathers on her - I want a pretty bird, and I took baby to the vet for a check up this morning (comfort my frazzled nerves, lol) and the Vet told me that she sees a lot of Eckies with major feather issues due to bad diets. She says I must keep her off seeds and give her tons of berries.
[/IMG]
Pickles has been sneezing, and her feet were on fire this morning, so I took her to be checked out - seems she's 100% even down to the bacteria in her poop. We got something to sort out the sneezing before it turns into anything to worry about. (OK, its official, I'm a bit parenoid)
Also, what is the care routine to keep a good coat of feathers on her - I want a pretty bird, and I took baby to the vet for a check up this morning (comfort my frazzled nerves, lol) and the Vet told me that she sees a lot of Eckies with major feather issues due to bad diets. She says I must keep her off seeds and give her tons of berries.
Pickles has been sneezing, and her feet were on fire this morning, so I took her to be checked out - seems she's 100% even down to the bacteria in her poop. We got something to sort out the sneezing before it turns into anything to worry about. (OK, its official, I'm a bit parenoid)
Last edited:
Ellie777Australia
New member
- Apr 12, 2019
- 1,280
- 98
- Parrots
- SI Eclectus Female, Ellie; RS/SI Eclectus Male, Bertie (both adopted as rescue/re-home)
Ellie, your Ellie looks so lovely - I am starting to get ready for weaning, I'm letting Pickles see and smell real fruit, to get her prepped. I would love you to share that page 2 of the chart for weaning, I found the first one so super comforting for this stage!
Also, what is the care routine to keep a good coat of feathers on her - I want a pretty bird, and I took baby to the vet for a check up this morning (comfort my frazzled nerves, lol) and the Vet told me that she sees a lot of Eckies with major feather issues due to bad diets. She says I must keep her off seeds and give her tons of berries.
[/IMG]
Pickles has been sneezing, and her feet were on fire this morning, so I took her to be checked out - seems she's 100% even down to the bacteria in her poop. We got something to sort out the sneezing before it turns into anything to worry about. (OK, its official, I'm a bit parenoid)
Thank you for complimenting Ellie Saash. I told her that you said she was a 'pretty girl' and she fluttered her eyelashes. Such a ham
.Now Pickles, you look so cute I want to kiss your beak.
. Glad that the vet said she was 100%. The nervous mom thing is kinda like bringing home a newborn baby...you haven't figured out each others language yet and you are establishing those maternal bonds. I believe that a tad nervous is good to keep you on your toes and vigilant to Pickles needs.I've sent the second page of the Growth Chart (from Dr. Marshall/Ian Ward's book) via private message so please be alert to same. The purpose for sending it using this method is explained in the message.
For care routine and feather health, this is a link to the products that I use for Bertie and Ellie:
https://www.birdhealth.com.au/eclectus
https://www.birdhealth.com.au/products
noodles123
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- Jul 11, 2018
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- Umbrella Cockatoo- 15? years old..I think?
Ellie, your Ellie looks so lovely - I am starting to get ready for weaning, I'm letting Pickles see and smell real fruit, to get her prepped. I would love you to share that page 2 of the chart for weaning, I found the first one so super comforting for this stage!
Also, what is the care routine to keep a good coat of feathers on her - I want a pretty bird, and I took baby to the vet for a check up this morning (comfort my frazzled nerves, lol) and the Vet told me that she sees a lot of Eckies with major feather issues due to bad diets. She says I must keep her off seeds and give her tons of berries.
[/IMG]
Pickles has been sneezing, and her feet were on fire this morning, so I took her to be checked out - seems she's 100% even down to the bacteria in her poop. We got something to sort out the sneezing before it turns into anything to worry about. (OK, its official, I'm a bit parenoid)
Even though I know this is stressful, I just wanted you to know that she may be one of the cutest parrot babies I have seen. She sort of reminds me of a friendly dinosaur from Land Before Time or a Beanie Baby or something!
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She is looking good! Growing so fast!:
Crop stasis article, hopefully nothing yiur going to ever have to deal with
https://www.petplace.com/article/birds/general/how-to-help-a-baby-bird-with-sour-crop/
Crop stasis article, hopefully nothing yiur going to ever have to deal with
https://www.petplace.com/article/birds/general/how-to-help-a-baby-bird-with-sour-crop/
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- #33
Thank you Laura.
I saw that you are really struggling with Penny - It sounds like you are getting it under control, wishing you great strength, I hope she makes a complete recovery!
There are huge risks with hand feeding, crop statisis being just one of them. Its good that this thread includes loads of links to these issues, as I have no doubt others will stumble on it.
I read a remedy that is suitable for home therapy, I will look for it and add it to the thread, as I guess most people who are looking for resources possibly don't have easy access to Avian Vets or the correct equipment.
As I understand, crop stasis can be caused by (1) not sterilizing (2) feeding cold formula (3) over-feeding (4) feeding new formula on top of old formula (5) formula that is too thick causes the crop to stall / other foreign body obstruction.
When hand feeding, temperature is essential. A birds natural temperature is 38-40 degreesC and the food should not be fed colder or hotter than that (which may mean warming it up during the feed - especially with Eclectus as they eat slower). A thermometer is an essential tool! Eccies formula can go up to 42 degC. EvERYTHING including hands must be sterilized. I use Milton, general sterilizer used for babies bottles is good, not anything containing bleach or any other chemicals harmful to birds. I like Milton as it also kills the bacteria that cause thrush, which is yeast, which is responsible for sour crop. The next important thing is that between every feed, the crop must empty, you don't feed on top of old food. Its also not good to let the chick starve, so for a parot, a bit of food the size on a pea left in the crop is ok, a very hungry bird might refuse food or might gulp too quickly (or pump too vigorously) and that can increase the risk of aspiration or over-feeding. The crop must be allowed to completely empty at least once in 24 hours, usually overnight, allowing 6 to 8 hours between the latest and earliest feed. I have found with Pickles at her age of 3 to 5 weeks this has taken between 4 to 5 hours. If the crop is slow, give it a gentle massage left to right (not up and down - that will force food up the oesophagus and potentially into the windpipe). Its important to also know how much to feed your chick. This is usually 10-12% of the body weight, so you have to weigh the baby at least before the earliest feed, never over-fill the crop - after a feed it will feel like a firm balloon, but should not be tight. Over feeding damages the muscle tissue and the crop will not function effectively, not empty well, and increase the risk of sour crop. If the crop is growing or not emptying between a feed, react quickly, don't go forcing more food in hoping the situation will improve. There are some home remedies, but of course a vet is the best solution.
When feeding by hand, its best to get to the back of the throat. You do this by getting into the beak (usually on the birds right side), and placing food at the side of the tongue where the beak opens (not at the tip of the beak where the airway is, which increases the possibility of aspiration).
I saw that you are really struggling with Penny - It sounds like you are getting it under control, wishing you great strength, I hope she makes a complete recovery!
There are huge risks with hand feeding, crop statisis being just one of them. Its good that this thread includes loads of links to these issues, as I have no doubt others will stumble on it.
I read a remedy that is suitable for home therapy, I will look for it and add it to the thread, as I guess most people who are looking for resources possibly don't have easy access to Avian Vets or the correct equipment.
As I understand, crop stasis can be caused by (1) not sterilizing (2) feeding cold formula (3) over-feeding (4) feeding new formula on top of old formula (5) formula that is too thick causes the crop to stall / other foreign body obstruction.
When hand feeding, temperature is essential. A birds natural temperature is 38-40 degreesC and the food should not be fed colder or hotter than that (which may mean warming it up during the feed - especially with Eclectus as they eat slower). A thermometer is an essential tool! Eccies formula can go up to 42 degC. EvERYTHING including hands must be sterilized. I use Milton, general sterilizer used for babies bottles is good, not anything containing bleach or any other chemicals harmful to birds. I like Milton as it also kills the bacteria that cause thrush, which is yeast, which is responsible for sour crop. The next important thing is that between every feed, the crop must empty, you don't feed on top of old food. Its also not good to let the chick starve, so for a parot, a bit of food the size on a pea left in the crop is ok, a very hungry bird might refuse food or might gulp too quickly (or pump too vigorously) and that can increase the risk of aspiration or over-feeding. The crop must be allowed to completely empty at least once in 24 hours, usually overnight, allowing 6 to 8 hours between the latest and earliest feed. I have found with Pickles at her age of 3 to 5 weeks this has taken between 4 to 5 hours. If the crop is slow, give it a gentle massage left to right (not up and down - that will force food up the oesophagus and potentially into the windpipe). Its important to also know how much to feed your chick. This is usually 10-12% of the body weight, so you have to weigh the baby at least before the earliest feed, never over-fill the crop - after a feed it will feel like a firm balloon, but should not be tight. Over feeding damages the muscle tissue and the crop will not function effectively, not empty well, and increase the risk of sour crop. If the crop is growing or not emptying between a feed, react quickly, don't go forcing more food in hoping the situation will improve. There are some home remedies, but of course a vet is the best solution.
When feeding by hand, its best to get to the back of the throat. You do this by getting into the beak (usually on the birds right side), and placing food at the side of the tongue where the beak opens (not at the tip of the beak where the airway is, which increases the possibility of aspiration).
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- Thread starter
- #35
Other useful links
https://wagwalking.com/bird/condition/crop-stasis
https://findanyanswer.com/how-do-you-treat-sour-crop-in-parrots
I have also seen remedies which use apple cider vinegar or garlic water to flush, with greek yogurt as a pro-biotic.
https://wagwalking.com/bird/condition/crop-stasis
https://findanyanswer.com/how-do-you-treat-sour-crop-in-parrots
I have also seen remedies which use apple cider vinegar or garlic water to flush, with greek yogurt as a pro-biotic.
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