Ornithology: Share and discuss scientific articles on parrots!

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Laurasea

Laurasea

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More info on baby parrots
https://hari.ca/hari/research-facil...cine-pediatrics-housing-feeding-baby-parrots/

Also this great info originally posted by EllenD


Since you've hand-fed other baby parrots before you probably have a better understanding/eduction than most people who come here asking these types of questions, but just to make sure and to save you from any serious issues, heartache, or tragedy that often happens when people take-on hand-feeding such a young baby parrot, I'm going to quickly run-down the most important and NON-OPTIONAL bullet-points that you must follow to a tee or your baby will become sick and suffer potentially fatal health problems:

#1.) The hand-feeding formula that you feed your baby Senegal must ALWAYS be between 104 degrees F and 110 degrees F, and must stay in that temperature range throughout the feeding. One degree colder and your baby can suffer fungal/yeast infections in their Crop and throughout their GI Tract, and this can cause Slow-Crop and Crop-Stasis. Even 1 degree hotter and it will cause burns on your bird's crop that usually cause severe infection and require surgery to remove the burnt portion of the Crop...So you must use a digital cooking/candy thermometer that has a metal probe you can place in the formula and keep in the formula throughout each hand-feeding. If the formula needs to be re-heated because it drops below 104 degrees F, do not microwave the already mixed formula because it will develop "hot pockets" that will burn your bird's Crop no matter how well you mix it; instead just microwave water or unflavored Pedialyte, whichever you're using to mix the formula, and then add it slowly to the already mixed formula...

#2.) At 3 weeks old your baby Senegal should have most of it's down feathers but very little to no outer feathers...I don't know if you have a real, proper Brooder that you are keeping your baby in, but if not then you need to at a minimum make a "homemade' Brooder that will keep the amibient temperature your baby is kept in within the correct temperature ranges...If the ambient temperature your baby bird is kept in is too cool they will develop the same fungal/yeast infections and problems as they do when the formula is too cold....If your baby bird does not yet have ALL of their down-feathers yet and still has bare skin exposed, then they MUST be kept in an ambient temperature between 90-95 degrees F at all times except for when you take them out for a hand-feeding or a short handling. Once all of their down feathers are in and there is no more bare skin exposed, but they still don't have all of their outer feathers grown in fully, their ambient temperature must always be between 75-80 degrees F. For a baby Senegal Parrot, who normally wean between the ages of 10 weeks old and 13 weeks old, they should be able to be transferred from their Brooder and into their first "Weaning" or "Starter" Cage around the age of 6-7 weeks old.

To Make a Handmade Brooder: All you need is a cardboard box that is large enough to have a front half and a back half with two different temperature zones, but not too large a box. You need an electric heating-pad that has an adjustible temperature, which will sit underneath the back-half of the box at all times. You'll also need an ambient thermometer that you can place/hang/stick in the back-half of the box, and this is what you will look at to make sure that the back-half of the box is always within the correct temperature range. Then you cover the back-half of the box with a towel or blanket to lock-in the heat in the back-half of the box, leaving the front half of the box uncovered and off of the heating-pad. Once you get this all set-up, turn on the heating-pad to low or medium and cover the back-half of the box, and wait for about 30 minutes for the temperature to reach it's max, and if it's not withint the correct temperature range then you turn it up a setting and wait another 30 minutes. Make sure you have a good, accurate ambient thermometer, the best and cheapest ones being the Accurite digital thermometers that you can just sit in the back of the box and that you can buy at any Walmart, Lowes, Home Depot, etc. for around $10-$15 (same for the digital cooking/candy thermometer with the metal probe, Walmart sells them for around $15 in the cooking gadget section)...Leave the front half of the box uncovered and off of the heating-pad so that your baby bird can go to the front of the box if they get too warm...Once your baby is around 6 weeks old or so, or when he/she has all of their outer feathers grow-in and no down-feathers are exposed, then you can move your bird into their Weaning/Starter Cage.

#3.) As far as the hand-feedings go, at only 3 weeks old your baby Senegal MUST be fed every 2-3 hours INCLUDING OVERNIGHT! They cannot go 6-8 hours overnight without being fed every 2-3 hours until they are between 4-5 weeks old. So you unfortuantely have to set an alarm for every 2 hours and get up every 2 hours, check his/her crop, and if it's just about empty at 2 hours then that's the interval that you'll feed them at for the next week. If his/her crop is not almost empty at 2 hours, then check it again at 3 hours and it should be almost empty, and that will be your feeding interval...

During the daytime and during the night until he/she is at least 4 weeks old (before they can go a full 6-8 hours overnight without being fed), their Crop should be almost empty when you give them their next hand=feeding, but won't be completely empty. The only time their Crop will be completely empty between feedings will be at their first morning feeding at 4 weeks, when they can go a full 6-8 hours without being fed...At only 3 weeks old they cannot go any longer than 3 hours maximum without being fed 24 hours a day, and that's why their Crop will never be completely empty at any time of a hand-feeding...Again, at 4 weeks old he/she will be able to go overnight for 6 hours or so without a hand-feeding, and their Crop will be completely empty first thing in the morning when you give them their first hand-feeding of the day; otherwise, during the rest of the day their Crop will be almost empty between hand-feedings, but not quite.

As far as how much formula you should give them during each hand-feeding, I never really go by a "set amount" based on their age as some breeders do...I always go by the size and feeling of their Crop, which you need to always be looking at and feeling lightily with the pad of your finger. At the end of all hand-feedings, their Crop should look very large and round, and when you feel it very gently with your finger (don't ever push on the Crop, just lightly run your finger over it), it should feel like a very full balloon that still has a little bit of 'give" to it. It should not feel tight, if it does then you are feeding them too much formula. And you cannot expect them to stop their feeding-response at the correct time; usually they do actually stop eating and stop their feeding-response and start rejecting the syringe close to the correct time, but not necessarily...YOU CAN NEVER, EVER TRY TO FORCE MORE FORMULA INTO THEM, WHEN THEY'RE DONE THEY'RE DONE, BUT YOU CAN STOP GIVING THEM ANY MORE FORMULA BEFORE THEIR FEEDING-RESPONSE STOPS AND BEFORE THEY THINK THEY ARE DONE, BASED ON THE SIZE AND FEEL OF THEIR CROP.

It's extremely important that you fully "Abundance-Wean" your Senegal, which means that you allow HIM/HER to make the decision when a hand-feeding is removed, and when the amount of formula in each hand-feeding is reduced. If YOU make the decision to remove a hand-feeding each day, or to reduce the amount of formula in each hand-feeding, this is called "Force-Weaning" your baby bird, and it usually results in severe, life-long Neurological and Behavioral issues, as well as serious and sometimes life-threatening physical medical problems...So allow your bird to tell you when a feeding will be rejected or the amount of formula per feeding will be reduced.

Typically the amount of formula they eat per hand-feeding and the number of hand-feedings per day will stay the same until a Senegal Parrot is between 5-6 weeks old, at which time he'll start eating more and more solid food, thus eating less formula. I would typically start putting millet-sprays inside of the Brooder at the age of 4 weeks-old, so that they start learning what solid-food is and will start picking at it and eventually eating it. At 5 weeks old I place a bowl of either pellets of seeds, whichever you are planning on weaning him onto as his daily "staple" food, inside of the Brooder, and once they start eating a good amount of the pellets or seed-mix (or both if you like), then they'll start to Abundance-Wean themselves. At the point where you move them into their Weaning/Starter Cage (when their outer feathers grow-in and no down-feathers are exposed, around 6 weeks old or so), then you're going to also start giving them a bowl of fresh Veggies, dark leaafy Greens, and a very small portion of Fruit every day as well, so that they'll learn what they are and to eat them.

Eventually you'll get to the point that they'll be eating a hand-feeding first thing in the morning and just before bed, and they'll be eating their pellets/seed-mix and fresh Veggies and Greens throughout the day...Then around the time they fully-Fledge, they'll eliminate the morning hand-feeding, and will basically be fully Abundance-Weaned, for a Senegal this will happen between 11-13 weeks old. They will typically continue to beg for a hand-feeding at night just before bed even after they are fully Abundance-Weaned, and this is called a "Comfort-Feeding", and it can continue for a week or two after they actually fully-wean. This is normal, it's not that they're hungry, it's just a comfort thing...
 
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Laurasea

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Laurasea

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Parrots and animals are amazing. I've read some other artists on altruism, and enjoyed this one thanks for posting.
I think it's curious that the Macaws showed less altruistic behavior. Especially because they shair closer DNA link to CAGS. Though that common ancestry is long ago.
 

Cardinal

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Currently I have none, but I have the capacity to adopt a minimum and maximum of two budgies - preferably a bonded pair or two males.

Cardinal

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Currently I have none, but I have the capacity to adopt a minimum and maximum of two budgies - preferably a bonded pair or two males.
Parrots and animals are amazing. I've read some other artists on altruism, and enjoyed this one thanks for posting.
I think it's curious that the Macaws showed less altruistic behavior. Especially because they shair closer DNA link to CAGS. Though that common ancestry is long ago.

DNA alone does not determine behaviour. Bonobos and Chimpanzees are very close to each other but behaviour is very different. I think the habitat and years of evolution and adaptation, that may have little change in genes impact behaviour. There is an interesting study by Dr Dominique, of how a red tailed black cockatoo sub species developed an entirely different inner bill structure and feeding behaviour to adapt to the dry and hot Australian bush, but is still just a subspecies.

Please share link showing AGs and macaws are close.
 
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Laurasea

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Re: Ornithology

Thanks Cardinal , I couldn't access any of the articles though, but wish I could attend a conference like that :)

Green Cheek Conure
https://www.nationalgeographic.org/media/photo-ark-green-cheeked-parakeet/

Laurasea

The link is now active

https://www.internationalornithology.org/psittaciformes

:red1:

Thank you! I just read one article from the link , the article on advanced ethics, about how unethically it is to keep parrots in cages ,and especially African Grey parrots not being suited the current style of parrot keeping.
 

SailBoat

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Re: Ornithology

Thanks Cardinal , I couldn't access any of the articles though, but wish I could attend a conference like that :)

Green Cheek Conure
https://www.nationalgeographic.org/media/photo-ark-green-cheeked-parakeet/

Laurasea

The link is now active

https://www.internationalornithology.org/psittaciformes

:red1:

Thank you! I just read one article from the link , the article on advanced ethics, about how unethically it is to keep parrots in cages ,and especially African Grey parrots not being suited the current style of parrot keeping.

Julio has not lived in a cage since he disassembled it several years ago.

I have always been concerned about articles that claim to speak of advanced ethics as they commonly do not! More commonly, they are foundations for collecting funds (money) for this or that organization that claim to....
 

SailBoat

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THANK YOU, for your ongoing efforts to enrich this Thread with wonderful writings regarding our current understanding and the edges of what knowledge is just before us.

The choice to Recuse, to bring into our life a Parrot that others have given-up on is rewarding... To provide that Parrot with the knowledge that they are Loved is heart lifting!

Again, thank you for this Thread!!!
 
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Laurasea

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I think with the intelligence, the complex social flock Dynamics, the flying and foraging for miles, the extended parental care and teaching of their young. Then looking at the physiological damge , self destructive behavior of captive parrots, and sexual frustrated parrots. The staggering number in rescues, or passed around, or neglected parrots.... I think does call into question ethics , of keeping parrots. As I have learned more of their intelligence, and behavior, and needs. I've come to the conclusion that I can't stand what we have done to them. I strive my best. But I will never get a baby from a breeder again, and only try to improve the lives of rescue and re-homed parrots.
 

SailBoat

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I think with the intelligence, the complex social flock Dynamics, the flying and foraging for miles, the extended parental care and teaching of their young. Then looking at the physiological damge , self destructive behavior of captive parrots, and sexual frustrated parrots. The staggering number in rescues, or passed around, or neglected parrots.... I think does call into question ethics , of keeping parrots. As I have learned more of their intelligence, and behavior, and needs. I've come to the conclusion that I can't stand what we have done to them. I strive my best. But I will never get a baby from a breeder again, and only try to improve the lives of rescue and re-homed parrots.

As we live longer with them and learn far more about them we find ourselves at the conclusion you find yourself!

We (Mrs. Boats and I) had our first Parrot experience with a Rescued Amazon! She had barely twelve feathers on her body from rubbing herself against the cage bars and her first lesson for us was that she had No Want To Ever Trust A Human Again! But, we promised her that she had a forever home with us and that regardless, we would love her. And, she tested that resolve for over six months before any sign of a change in her beliefs.

Over the years, I have come to stop recommending that People get a baby as today, the vast majority of breeders (small 'b') are in it for only the money. And, those wanting a Parrot, are unwilling to spend the money, i.e. the cheaper the better. And, we both know where that path takes that poor baby...

I hear you regarding the ethics and agree with you. That said, those groups that claim the 'ethical high ground' are sadly, in it for the money... Yes, an ugly statement, but a quick look at what they pay themselves clearly shows they are not in it for the birds.

Whenever it gets to me, a certain Amazon shows up looking for more of his time and I melt and give in! I have to remind myself that if not for us, then who!?!?
 
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Cardinal

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I hear you regarding the ethics and agree with you. That said, those groups that claim the 'ethical high ground' are sadly, in it for the money... Yes, an ugly statement, but a quick look at what they pay themselves clearly shows they are not in it for the birds.

![/U]?!?

Hi Sail Boat

You may have had some bad experience with some organisation. But since I have been a member of IOU and many years because of financial constraints I have not paid the full or part membership fees. I can vouch for that they are not a money minded organisation , in my experience.

In any case I did not see any section where they talk about "ADVANCED" ethics.

Perhaps you are referring to this

Ethics in Ornithology

https://internationalornithology.org/ethics-ornithology

I personally don't see anything wrong in their position statement. in fact it is introspective and wants to look at any "negative" practices that they themselves will be following.

Of course no individual or organisation is perfect and they may have some flaws but they are open to suggestions.

:yellow1::yellow1::yellow1:
 

SailBoat

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There is no question that there are organizations that practice what they preach.

However, the ever growing number of organizations that are forcing change in Laws to limit and then eliminate the ownership of Parrots are founded in bringing them Power and Money and the Parrots are just a means to that end.

There is no question that Human's abuse Parrots and that the Parrot trade is one that is ripe with abuse. There are hundreds of thousands of Parrot in Rescue and Pet Stores looking for homes. So, what should the course of action be to move from where we are to a place that Parrots exist in their Natural Range?

- Regulate Breeders? Yes!
- Require Documents, which control the movement of Parrots? Yes!
- Require Ownership Documents, which define ownership of Parrots? Yes!

But, what are these 'groups' pushing...
- Release of 'all' Parrots from Human ownership!
- Forced removal of Parrots from Human ownership!
- And, it just gets even more ugly from this point!

At this point, the shame approach used by those organizations is resulting in individuals choosing to release their Parrots into the wilds of their local forests, whether they are the Natural Range of the Parrot or not.

In the Great Rain Forests of the Northwestern Shore Line Parts of North America, Wildlife Ranges find empty, open cages in those 'Magical' places. The sad results of Human's coming to the Wrong Belief that their Parrot would be happier in the magical rain forests -- where they beloved Parrot will die of hunger, be eaten, or die in the pretty white snow!

The New World Parrots of the Americas are located in the Jungles and Warm Forests of Central and South America, not the Rain Forests of the Great Northwest...

I hear you, but the reality is, for each kind hearted organization there are huge, money controlled organizations, who's goals have nothing to do with what is good for the Parrots, but what is good for their bottom line. And, sadly, what the 'good' organizations are doing is for the Parrots, but also ease the process of gathering money by those who are not.

So, what should these kind hearted organizations do; Push for the loving care of those Parrots in captivity by supporting what I listed above...

Thank you for your comments!

My hope is to steer individuals to a loving solution, not certain death of release into the wrong environment...
 
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Cardinal

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Currently I have none, but I have the capacity to adopt a minimum and maximum of two budgies - preferably a bonded pair or two males.
At this point, the shame approach used by those organizations is resulting in individuals choosing to release their Parrots into the wilds of their local forests, whether they are the Natural Range of the Parrot or not.

In the Great Rain Forests of the Northwestern Shore Line Parts of North America, Wildlife Ranges find empty, open cages in those 'Magical' places. The sad results of Human's coming to the Wrong Belief that their Parrot would be happier in the magical rain forests -- where they beloved Parrot will die of hunger, be eaten, or die in the pretty white snow!

The New World Parrots of the Americas are located in the Jungles and Warm Forests of Central and South America, not the Rain Forests of the Great Northwest...

I hear you, but the reality is, for each kind hearted organization there are huge, money controlled organizations, who's goals have nothing to do with what is good for the Parrots, but what is good for their bottom line. And, sadly, what the 'good' organizations are doing is for the Parrots, but also ease the process of gathering money by those who are not.

So, what should these kind hearted organizations do; Push for the loving care of those Parrots in captivity by supporting what I listed above...

Thank you for your comments!

My hope is to steer individuals to a loving solution, not certain death of release into the wrong environment...


The International Ornithologists' Union is not your typical "kind hearted organisation". They are a hard core science and research focussed organisation. They are primarily concerned with Wild birds and their natural habitat , their taxonomy, behaviour and conservation etc.

I don't think anyone who is a part of the IOU would recommend any of the above solutions. Yes they will be concerned about the Wild populations of many parrot species and I think there is something specific they have said about African Grey Parrots- a species that has declined by 99% in Ghana and perhaps equally bad in many parts of Africa.

And also from a captivity perspective- the African Grey parrot is not a species that everyone can handle and they are cognitively and emotionally complex hence may have been purview to some discussion on ethics among Ornithologists.

:blue:
 

SailBoat

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Thank you for the clarity of your favorite organization and the positive work they do.

I have taken far too much Thread space from the OP and this wonderful Thread

Again, thank you...
 
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