Pellet shortage ??

kme3388

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Wait wait, are you saying the bird is tested positive for bornavirus? Are you sure? While it won't kill your bird immediately, it doesn't mean the bird is not ill. Many birds have absolutely no symptoms but still carry the virus. However, if you got "prescribed" pellets for digestion, I cannot help myself but think the bird developed PDD, for which it is believed bornavirus causes it (shortly put - digestion issues). Birds do die from this, just it's a life long battle and there is no cure.

It caught me eye because if I remember right, you also have a conure, and well, bornavirus is hiiighly contagious...

I really hope I just miunderstood you ...
You didn’t misunderstand me. What was explained to me is that a lot of birds are carriers of boronavirus, and show no signs. While others get sick, and have medical issues from it. The concern I had with his feather plucking was that if you look at this photo here when I first got him he is missing feathers around his beak. He can’t pluck them there. They’ve sense grown back. I took him to the vet as soon as I got him to try to get him help. I do have a conure as well. My conure has shown no signs of being sick. The vet has told me to keep my conure away from my ekkies feces as that’s how the boronavirus spreads. Which they are never out together, and my conure has her own stands.
 

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Skarila

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You didn’t misunderstand me. What was explained to me is that a lot of birds are carriers of boronavirus, and show no signs. While others get sick, and have medical issues from it. The concern I had with his feather plucking was that if you look at this photo here when I first got him he is missing feathers around his beak. He can’t pluck them there. They’ve sense grown back. I took him to the vet as soon as I got him to try to get him help. I do have a conure as well. My conure has shown no signs of being sick. The vet has told me to keep my conure away from my ekkies feces as that’s how the boronavirus spreads. Which they are never out together, and my conure has her own stands.
I am so sorry to hear that!! That virus is really not something to be trifled with :(

Your vet is absolutely right. I would still be very scared and keep my hygiene at the highest - dry poop is the worst when it starts breaking down into fine dust. Daily washing the surface and the floor, disinfection and such, and you already know the rest.

I wish your Ekkie still many happy years - despite this awful disease!
 

kme3388

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I am so sorry to hear that!! That virus is really not something to be trifled with :(

Your vet is absolutely right. I would still be very scared and keep my hygiene at the highest - dry poop is the worst when it starts breaking down into fine dust. Daily washing the surface and the floor, disinfection and such, and you already know the rest.

I wish your Ekkie still many happy years - despite this awful disease!
Thank you for the empathy. I am learning as I go about both ekkies, and his medical issues. He's a happy boy, and has already improved from the day I got him. I do my best to remember although he has struggles he still is a bird by nature. He gets into anything/everything. He likes to give my husband a hard time (my husband gets sassed). Birds will be birds! :ROFLMAO:
 

GaleriaGila

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The ol' Rb has been eating Harrison's, ordered from the company, since the mid-1980s. No apparent changes in availability.
Good thread! Always stuff to learn.
Thanks, all.
 

SailBoat

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Everything I've read says it needs to be 40%-60% pellets?
Your reading Old advise!!

Remember that Pellets are not available in your Parrots home range and they are not starving in the wild, right?

A healthy Diet is a combination of food types commonly found in their home range! Mixed with a limited amount of additives.
 
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imouse1

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As an Ekkie owner I’ve gotten this lecture from my vet multiple times. “Must include pellets!” At best, it only tells half the story, at worst on a species level it can be dangerous and based on outdated information.

Whether Ekkie or conure or macaw, Essentially the recommendation comes on the assumption that most people don’t know what they’re doing, which is fair. They assume you’ll feed a restricted diet of just a few veggies, resulting in vitamin deficiency. “Feed him frozen veg medley, he’ll be fine”, essentially. Otherwise stated, they fear you won’t feed a nutritionally well rounded diet. In which case the vets aren’t wrong!

when you feed a diverse diet, you begin to cover all your bases. In addition to his regular chop (which contains at least 15 different ingredients encompassing all different colors and different plant parts), Parker gets sprouts. His current sprout mix contains approximately 30 different plant species.

Between all 40-50 ingredients, plus the occasional jaunt outside, his nutritional bases are covered…

as long as you feed diversity, you’ll cover all nutritional bases. And remember, I’m recommending this to you as a stop gap measure in case pellets do become scarce - not as a permanent change (though as a permanent change it’d be great too!). Especially if it’s a short term bridge, vitamin deficiency really isn’t an issue and you’re perfectly fine to feed just chop until your preferred pellet is back in stock.

Ask any Ekkie owner and you’ll get a nutritional lecture. We HAVE to be experts in fresh food preparation. It’s a species requirement since pellets can be harmful to ekkies 😆

also, Blanche your chop then freeze it. defrost only what you need at a time. You enhance nutrition with blanching (and prepare it for freezing), AND don’t lose nutrition to sitting around the fridge.
Wait, you feed your bird 50 different veggies/fruits/herbs a day plus occasional outside trips? That doesn't sound species-specific, that sounds like a full-time job.

I'm curious how pellets are harmful to ekkies
 

chris-md

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Wait, you feed your bird 50 different veggies/fruits/herbs a day plus occasional outside trips? That doesn't sound species-specific, that sounds like a full-time job.

I'm curious how pellets are harmful to ekkies

hardly! I make one big batch of chop that lasts 3 months or so. It can take a few hours to prepare on chop day, but Day to day, takes a minute to thaw in the microwave, top dress and serve.

the thing about chop is it doesn’t have to be “species specific”. All birds can do well on the Ekkie diet. Ekkies can not do well on other birds diet.

if you aren’t familiar with the great Ekkie/pellet debate, Im afraid you’re missing out on soem key information on your birds unique dietary requirements - which makes me very happy you joined up here 😊 - and you may have some very serious research to do.

You did not take in just any bird. Eclectus are unique and require specialized care.

Electus should not have any food that has been enhanced with added vitamins and minerals because of their unique digestive system. 99% of pellets on the market have these added vitamins and minerals.

what’s important to understand is that some individual eclectus may be more sensitive than others. Not all will suffer negative visual effects associated with a pellet diet - you’ll hear stories abounding online about how some people’s parrots are doing just fine on pellets - but many others do suffer significant effects. The most basic of symptoms are toe tapping and wing flipping, which are involuntary and painful muscle spasms. At worst this can be prone to hypervitaminosis, or vitamin toxicity.

Not to mention the potential for significantly upping the unnecessary hormonal behavior.

so yeah, pellets? Avoid them if at all possible.
 

kme3388

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hardly! I make one big batch of chop that lasts 3 months or so. It can take a few hours to prepare on chop day, but Day to day, takes a minute to thaw in the microwave, top dress and serve.

the thing about chop is it doesn’t have to be “species specific”. All birds can do well on the Ekkie diet. Ekkies can not do well on other birds diet.

if you aren’t familiar with the great Ekkie/pellet debate, Im afraid you’re missing out on soem key information on your birds unique dietary requirements - which makes me very happy you joined up here 😊 - and you may have some very serious research to do.

You did not take in just any bird. Eclectus are unique and require specialized care.

Electus should not have any food that has been enhanced with added vitamins and minerals because of their unique digestive system. 99% of pellets on the market have these added vitamins and minerals.

what’s important to understand is that some individual eclectus may be more sensitive than others. Not all will suffer negative visual effects associated with a pellet diet - you’ll hear stories abounding online about how some people’s parrots are doing just fine on pellets - but many others do suffer significant effects. The most basic of symptoms are toe tapping and wing flipping, which are involuntary and painful muscle spasms. At worst this can be prone to hypervitaminosis, or vitamin toxicity.

Not to mention the potential for significantly upping the unnecessary hormonal behavior.

so yeah, pellets? Avoid them if at all possible.
You would be accurate. When I first got my ekkie he was wing flipping, and toe tapping. He has improved, and he does have a variety diet. I myself made 1 batch of chop. Both my ekkie, and conure refused to eat it. My ekkie likes his veggies but if I mix them together he won't eat it. Maybe it was the chop that I made as it was my first time. I probably should make another chop that way he can have his pellets, and a good well rounded diet. If you have a specific chop that Parker loves do let me know. It would be nice to not throw away chop because I don't know what I'm doing. I myself do give my ekkie a piece of chicken, or a little sample of a hard boiled egg now, and then. He goes crazy for both.. The roudybush I mentioned before has no added colors, or vitamins. I don't see the toe tapping, or wing flipping as I did before. I am not sure which pellets cause this because as soon as I adopted my parrot I changed his diet, and worked with a vet in regards to Nico's health. I really do appreciate your help, and suggestions.
 

Skarila

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Your reading Old advise!!

Remember that Pellets are not available in your Parrots home range and they are not starving in the wild, right?

A healthy Diet is a combination of food types commonly found in their home range! Mixed with a limited amount of additives.
But we also remember that the captive birds cannot burn not even nearly as much energy/sugar from their fruits as they would in the wild... I still don't think cold pressed pellets are the devil. Sometimes we cannot offer everything that's in the wild for them, imagine all the tropical fruits and foliage and nuts they nibble on in the wild, we cannot buy not even 10% from the stores or have it outside... While I agree pellets without aditives or with less aditives would be nice, it's simply not available outside of US so we often offer what we can. And the lot of us mostly will follow the recommended diet from our avian vets according to each bird.
 

kme3388

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I was just at Petsmart, and found this. Which is really cool because I can introduce chop to my parrots in small portions. So far my Ekkie doesn’t like it. Maybe it will grow on him throughout the day. I bought the last 2. Some stuff was stocked well, and other things were sold out.
DB668BD7-4F4B-4982-A15A-E5741116397E.jpeg
 

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imouse1

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But we also remember that the captive birds cannot burn not even nearly as much energy/sugar from their fruits as they would in the wild... I still don't think cold pressed pellets are the devil. Sometimes we cannot offer everything that's in the wild for them, imagine all the tropical fruits and foliage and nuts they nibble on in the wild, we cannot buy not even 10% from the stores or have it outside... While I agree pellets without aditives or with less aditives would be nice, it's simply not available outside of US so we often offer what we can. And the lot of us mostly will follow the recommended diet from our avian vets according to each bird.
This is what I was taught, even when I was back house sitting. Like, I can say where I live unless I start a greenhouse *today* I couldn't even go to the health food store to get 50 fruits and veg. Not to mention the nutrient loss from long-term storage (which, while smaller when freezing, accelerates if there is any kind of freezer burn) or the constant need to eat if kept in calorie restriction to allow for all-day wild-like foraging / constant hunger if those nutritional needs aren't met. I guess you probably live in a place with better access to resources than I do, because even assuming that my guy was able to be out and about the 12 hours he's not supposed to be in the darkness (although, I guess vets must be wrong in that, too, since there's no natural place parrots would be born and regularly get even 10 hours of dark), he wouldn't burn off enough calories in captivity to warrant a wild diet. I'm glad your ekkie has someone who can devote that much attention and resources to him!
 

Skarila

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This is what I was taught, even when I was back house sitting. Like, I can say where I live unless I start a greenhouse *today* I couldn't even go to the health food store to get 50 fruits and veg. Not to mention the nutrient loss from long-term storage (which, while smaller when freezing, accelerates if there is any kind of freezer burn) or the constant need to eat if kept in calorie restriction to allow for all-day wild-like foraging / constant hunger if those nutritional needs aren't met. I guess you probably live in a place with better access to resources than I do, because even assuming that my guy was able to be out and about the 12 hours he's not supposed to be in the darkness (although, I guess vets must be wrong in that, too, since there's no natural place parrots would be born and regularly get even 10 hours of dark), he wouldn't burn off enough calories in captivity to warrant a wild diet. I'm glad your ekkie has someone who can devote that much attention and resources to him!
I am a bit confused now because it is not me who has an Eclectus :'D

And why do you think parrots cannot get not even 10h of darkness naturally? I mean, parrots which live in the equatorium get 12h day and 12h night. Period. Forever. Depending on the zones and the time of the years, they surely get 10h of sleep or more, depending on the season.

And Chris is right, perhaps we wandered bit way too far from the topic..... .....I'm still waiting for my pellets :'(
 

Laurasea

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Eclectus parrots are very unique, with a unique digestive system. I believe they evolved in a nutritionally poor environment, so their digestive system is evolved to more efficiently extract nutrients. Pellets are nutritional dense with added vitamins and they can overdo... There is some theory that longterm use of primary pellet diet also is an issue in all parrots...quite the topic to take on! Pellets were originally formulated fir chickens, while over time they have been tweaked fir parrots. But all parrots do not fill the sane nutritional niches in nature.
Pellets have yet to evolve to be species specific ..

I'm always trying to read and learn in this topic, like a million others!

For now, from my understanding and personal research, for my non Eclectus. I offer a variety of pellet brands, I offer variety of seed mix, and I offer lots a d lots of fresh veggies and leafy greens, a few berries and fruits here and there, legume, lentils, quinoa, a little boiled egg, rare a little boiled chicken, sprouts. That's what I feel is best. Pellets can contain micronutrients that are needed. My ideal was about 35% Pellets. That's what mine ate before I had the flock outbreak of chlamydia. Then things went to hell as I had sick birds loosing weight. So they were spoiled with anything they would eat. Currently eating 10% Pellets, lots if veg, and seeds. I'm working to get pellet consumption back up, by having seeds only available in the evening.

Ok here is a link on ekkies digestion, I just did a quick search so may not be the best article , but explains some
 

Terry57

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I think it's time to get this thread back on track...the original subject was pellet shortages. I agree with Chris, if someone wants to start a thread for Eclectus specific diets or the value of pellets, please feel free to do so. Let's respect the OP and stay on topic in this thread.
 

Laurasea

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Ahhh..sometimes threads e evolve organically. When their is is good dialog
 

Terry57

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Ahhh..sometimes threads e evolve organically. When their is is good dialog
This is true. However, when the subject evolves to the point that the original question is completely lost, it's time to bring it back to the OP's question.
 

imouse1

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I am a bit confused now because it is not me who has an Eclectus :'D

And why do you think parrots cannot get not even 10h of darkness naturally? I mean, parrots which live in the equatorium get 12h day and 12h night. Period. Forever. Depending on the zones and the time of the years, they surely get 10h of sleep or more, depending on the season.

And Chris is right, perhaps we wandered bit way too far from the topic..... .....I'm still waiting for my pellets :'(
Sorry, yes, I hit reply to you for the first part then forgot who I was talking to. The last stuff was for Chris MD because I'm honestly confused to hear that pellets are so harmful but thr standard. I didn't come across any of that when I was researching stuff before bringing Gregg home and that was almost 2 months' of figuring out what he was going to need, what was going to be toxic, limiting his sugar, etc. So, I am sorry, you weren't the intended target of my later statements.

The equator is 12but that's not where most parrots originate. (So, unfair to say none get 10.) Any deviation from the equator diminishes daylight time. Kind of like how without being at the absolute north pole, parts of Europe and Alaska have days spent in entire darkness and then entire days of light. I had a better response typed out last night but fell asleep on my phone.

I know we got on the idea of chop because Chris had said that was the only thing we should be feeding our parrots, anyway. Without a massive carbon footprint, there's no way for me to get a 50 veggie+fruit variety for my guy where I live. The health food stores are just organic versions of what Albertsons sells, usually with even less variety, which is why I grow my doge veg to begin with. We get more fruit than veg here so my Gregg would be going down a long road of renal failure and fatty liver if I didn't have the pellets. But if pellets are really that harmful, maybe I should have left him in the pet store and kept hanging out with him through the glass until someone else adopted him. He'd be on an all-seed diet but it wouldn't be me killing him =(
 

chris-md

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Sorry, yes, I hit reply to you for the first part then forgot who I was talking to. The last stuff was for Chris MD because I'm honestly confused to hear that pellets are so harmful but thr standard. I didn't come across any of that when I was researching stuff before bringing Gregg home and that was almost 2 months' of figuring out what he was going to need, what was going to be toxic, limiting his sugar, etc. So, I am sorry, you weren't the intended target of my later statements.


I know we got on the idea of chop because Chris had said that was the only thing we should be feeding our parrots, anyway. Without a massive carbon footprint, there's no way for me to get a 50 veggie+fruit variety for my guy where I live. The health food stores are just organic versions of what Albertsons sells, usually with even less variety, which is why I grow my doge veg to begin with. We get more fruit than veg here so my Gregg would be going down a long road of renal failure and fatty liver if I didn't have the pellets. But if pellets are really that harmful, maybe I should have left him in the pet store and kept hanging out with him through the glass until someone else adopted him. He'd be on an all-seed diet but it wouldn't be me killing him =(

Take it easy on yourself, you're on a HUGE learning curve - I've been there. Even worse, you have a bird with bornavirus, with possible PDD manifestations if you are required to have specialized food. I'm sorry you're having to deal with this, it just sucks. As noted, its highly contagious, keep your ekkie isolated from your conure.

I want to get this thread back on track, but I couldn't let this stand, its too important. You DID in fact bring home what you might in effect be a special needs parrot, for how specilaized their dietary requirements are. It is your responsibility to fulfill the needs of this creature you brought into your home. Fortunately, you have resources here to help guide you!

*******I didn't say chop is the only way. Chop is the easiest way. Once you learn how to make a proper chop, how to reduce moisture so its not so mushy, you're life will have just gotten much easier.**** There are many ways to accomplish this outside of chop. A couple examples:

1. dry mixes (i have a thread around here somewhere about eclectus-appropriate dry mixes that I hoped would be a sticky, clearly its needed but I don't think it was approved) - look into the myriad dry mixes out there, especially the GoldenFeast line of products.

2. TOPs pellets are actually perfectly fine for eclectus. There are no added vitamins/minerals, and no artificial dyes, its all natural.

3. Feed fresh stuff daily: a different breakfast and dinner every day. May breakfast is brown rice, peas, lentils, carrots, and kale, and dinner be a completely different mixture.

4. An "ugly fruit" subscription service is a GREAT option. Cheaper fruits, get a great diversity for both you and your birds. I did this for Parker for a few years and really loved it.

5. Local farmers markets are always great places.

6. There are plenty of soak-n-serve mixes available on the market.

7. Start Sprouting

As for carbon footprint, buying local as much as possible will help take care of that. But that'll really be on you to reconcile. Where it comes to my fruits and vegetables, carbon footprint is the least of my worries.
 

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