Questionable vet treatment for clostridium? (pls help)

[NakedZiggy]

Hello everyone,


Apologies for asking a question here when I'm not a regular member; but, I really need your help.



My senegal, Simon, has had a clostridium infection in his intestines for about a month. This results in stinky morning stool of softer consistency. Our vet (an avian specialist) is suggesting some odd treatments, and for this reason, I wanted to hear what other parrot owners have to say.
Simon was first prescribed metronidazole dosage once a day for seven days. During this treatment the odor disappeared within 2 days and consistency returned to normal. We did a gram sample and it indicated there was no clostridium present. 5 days later, the odor returned and a subsequent gram stain revealed clostridium once again. As far as I know it never went away as its tricky to test for. Next our vet now prescribed Clinsol for treating the bacteria.
[FONT=&quot]This medication is used to treat dental and skin infections in dogs and cats. According to drugs.com, "Dogs: Skin Infections (wounds And Abscesses) ..... deep Wounds And Abscesses Due To Bacteroides fragilis, Prevotella Melaninogenicus, Fusobacterium Ecrophorum and Clostridium Perfringens. Nothing in the way of avian is mentioned, nor do we know if his clostridium is the perfringens type as another lab test proved futile in growing any bacteria."[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]1.) In light of this, does it seem like reasonable treatment or should we change vets?[/FONT]

The primary warning on Clinsol (below) states that the medication may actually promote more clostridia.
The use of clindamycin hydrochloride occasionally results in overgrowth of non-susceptible organisms such as clostridia and yeasts. Therefore, the administration of CLINSOL Liquid should be avoided in those species sensitive to the gastrointestinal effects of clindamycin (see CONTRAINDICATIONS).

2.) What's the best treatment for this bacteria? he's had it appear a few other times in the past even though his cage is cleanly...we've been given metronidazole as well as baytril previously. The vet recommends an x-ray because of Simon's "pre-disposition" to acquiring this again. I don't think it ever went away...


thank you eveyrone,
Zig

 

[crimson]

welcome to the forum nakedziggy(love the name!)

since you are questioning your vets opinion, I would seek out another avian vet.

I too have a senegal and they are amazing parrots!
I'm sure another member will be along shortly with more suggestions, sorry I couldn't be of more help.

 

[MonicaMc]

I can't answer your question in what's best to treat it, all I can say is that birds should be on meds for a minimum of 7-10 days, and some things will require a treatment of 30 or more days to ensure the infection is gone.

How long was the treatment?


Don't know if these might be of any help?
Clostridium
www.susanclubb.com/pdfs/clostridium.doc

 

[ShellyBorg]

Could a food you are feeding be the cause of the reinfection?

 

[crimson]

Could a food you are feeding be the cause of the reinfection?

that is what I was thinking after I replied.

 

[NakedZiggy]

We've eliminated all the fruits and vegetables from his diet per doctor's orders. Just fruit Zupreem pellets and nutriberries (for now).

 

[Mayden]

Could you explain what the signs and symptoms were and what made you take him to the vet?

Merlin has similar sounding stools and Ill be looking to take him to the vets about it asap but he doesn't appear 'sick'. So could you let me know all you know about your bird with it?

Sorry I cant help but if Merlin has this too then I will let you know what my vet recommends.

 

[GreyG]

In the interest of sharing info, I'll toss out a similar situation Cleo had several years ago - sometimes her morning bombs appeared to be twice her size -- and peeee----ewwww. We, too, sought treatment from our avian vet at the time. He suggested that perhaps it was related to our trying to potty train her, which we had been working on, so he recommended that we teach her to potty in her cage and then discontinue any further potty training. We did this by returning her to her cage to do her business and reward the behavior. We did not use any medications, but the issue went on for several years even after she was regularly pottying in her cage. Even then though, she didn't go during the night, leading to the same old big smelly bombs. Eventually, she began pooping over night and the issue was resolved... no more big, stinky morning stools. Maybe this is a poicephalus thing?

 

[MonicaMc]

It's normal for birds to hold in their poop overnight and let out the "big one" in the morning.

There are some theories as to why they do this, but I just believe that if they don't want to wake up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom, then why do it?

 

[ShellyBorg]

One of the reasons they do not eliminate overnight is because in the wild a wet fresh poop is a great indicator to a predator there is a flock of tasty parrots in a tree. Our birds have not been removed from the wild long enough to lose this behavior for the most part.

 

[MonicaMc]

And that's one of the theories I don't believe in.... lol


Would be nice to see some documented evidence about it!

 

[ShellyBorg]

And that's one of the theories I don't believe in.... lol


Would be nice to see some documented evidence about it!

You can with your own eyes. Look around for a tree that wild birds roost in over night. With that many birds the under side of that tree should be white.

 

[MonicaMc]

Birds can roost in a variety of places, so looking under one tree might not be ideal...

Starlings used to roost in and on a billboard sign next to the building that I work in. Pigeons, too! Ground was covered in poop! Only saw the birds in the evening flying around before settling down.... and they were very noisy as the sun was setting!


So uhm.... that theory doesn't work for me!

 

[NakedZiggy]

Could you explain what the signs and symptoms were and what made you take him to the vet?

Merlin has similar sounding stools and Ill be looking to take him to the vets about it asap but he doesn't appear 'sick'. So could you let me know all you know about your bird with it?

Sorry I cant help but if Merlin has this too then I will let you know what my vet recommends.

Hi Mayden,

Sure thing. The main symptom was the newly present odor in his morning stool along with its shape and consistency. Normally, this stool bomb is a dark forest green or green brown; the consistency is tubular with each coil very well defined in shape. After the odor appeared, the stool became more pastey with a significantly less defined shape. It began to resemble split pea soup. Some mornings it was actually diarrhea-ish. (In the event that Merlin has diarrhea do make sure you properly hydrate him afterwards; this is a massive health risk to birds as you probably already know.

After consulting some other experts, Simon's primary vet, and you guys, we decided to give him the medication. He's been on it for 5 days now (2 more to go). I noticed the odor immediately disappeared after his first day of treatment. It hasn't been back since; hopefully won't return after the treatment. I'll post updates.

I personally don't think he was ever cured of the clostridium he's initially acquired months ago even if the symptoms "temporarily faded."

P.S. Most of the time Simon didn't appear sick either. It was his change in morning stool that was our biggest indicator. Occasionally, I'd catch him in a drowsy state which is completely unlike his normal healthy state of being.

 

[NakedZiggy]

That's a ridiculous amount of poop to be accumulating over night. I wonder how their digestion actually works given these rascals poop none stop over the day.