Splayed Budgies Update: 33 and 35 days old.

[Budgiegirl38]

Hi everyone, For a recap, I had posted a thread with a question about applying a splint to budgies with splayed legs. After numerous replies and plenty of advice pointing me to the vets office, I took them (to the vet) to be splinted.

Initially, the vet used a waddle splint AND a surf board splint with a pool noodle and towel wrapped around each budgie to keep them standing upright. After 5 days of this, they were re-splinted and sent home in only their surf board splints and towels for another 10 days.
Today marks 15 days in a row that they've each had to sit in a splint.

Splayed legs in budgies is best treated when caught early, within or before the first two weeks of life between 10-17 days old. Otherwise, the deformation can develop too strongly to be reversed and the splint may be less effective. I noticed something was 'wrong' with them around the 16th and 18th day of their lives, posted to the forum, and took them to the vet by the time they were 18 and 20 days old. Today they are 33 and 35 days old (They're getting so big!).

The vet appointment to have the splints removed is tomorrow, however, the younger bird (Rocco/Trooper) had gotten his 1 foot out of the splint 3 days ago. (The vet had/s been out, nothing I could do but try to keep him straight.) Last night I found him outside of the nest, he is beginning to fledge? (33 days = 4 weeks 5 days). After moving him from the floor of the cage back to the nest 3 times, I decided it'd be easier on him to remove the rest of the splint and let him get around on his own. I was worried about the splint getting caught (in the bars--I have paper towels and bedding on the bottom but I had found him under them at a point) and thus twisting/harming/breaking the foot/leg that was still taped in said splint. So I took it off of him.

This particular bird was the worse of the 2 and had both legs splayed out to the side, he/she could not stand before being splinted. Now, he/she is able to stand upright AND waddle walk (getting there). He tends to tip forward and lose his balance when he's standing. But he is trying hard and learning, Opposed to lying on the floor with his one leg straight out to the side. This morning he was in his nest, either back from a night out or comfortably propped there from last night. I'm considerably happy for him.

Marla, the older hatchling, is still snug in her splint. I have yet to see her progress however, she was always better off than the younger, other hatchling, so I can only imagine how much better off she will be.

I'm planning on posting 'before/after' photos of them tomorrow after their appointment (9:30 am EST) on this thread if interested in visually seeing their progress.

To anyone looking for help on budgies with splayed legs, Please, just take them to an avian vet. I couldn't have splinted them as well as the vet did let alone do so effectively and correctly. My hatch-lings were not that bad off, but they could not have been remedied with a make-up sponge or a hair tie like how most internet sources claim they can be.

 

[LordTriggs]

good to hear they're getting stronger! Their personalities seem to be coming out too, I bet Rocco is going to grow up to be a real mischief maker!

 

[Budgiegirl38]

Sorry for the delay again, It's been busy looking after these guys.

Marla is hopping and climbing throughout the cage. Flying little by little. She and Rocco are able to perch (I'm really happy about that, as before it was doubtful).

Rocco, as I mentioned is able to perch, but he hasn't been as curious. I helped him up to the perch in the photo, he still hasn't gotten there himself. But he is the younger of the two. His sister is really pushing the limits, climbing the bars close to the top...so I'm sure he'll catch on soon.

Unfortunately, Scarleau (Dad) is at it again, As soon as Marla jumped onto the perch (for the first time, that I saw), he ran down to meet her and is definitely not trying to feed her anymore. I've now separated my males and my females.

Maya (the mom) and cloudy (another female of mine) are together in the cage with the 2 babies (my 1 male [Rocco] baby is real unlikely to knock up my 2 adult females {at least I'm hoping}). I want to keep them together until I know for sure that Rocco and Marla can feed themselves. I've seen Rocco nibble on seed and take water from the bowls. I haven't seen Marla do so yet. Marla is 40 days old (5 weeks and 4 days) and Rocco is 38 days old (5 weeks and 2 days).

I'm real enthusiastic about their progress. Marla is having trouble perching on slick perches, the gritted ones work better so I'm thinking I'll switch all the perches in her cage to gritted or textured in the least so her grip isn't slipping on her. Rocco will probably be the same way. I'm going to need another cage...Or a much larger one with separators...

So, about separating my males and females. Cloudy seems okay with the change. She hasn't interacted with the babies yet though she is aware they're with her. She's never been an alpha bird and isn't usually aggressive at all, I'm thinking she'll acclimate well. (hoping)

Scarleau is freaking out. As expected. He really just seems distraught because he's without any females though. I don't think it has anything to do with him being away from the chicks. Kiwi (the other male he is with) is acting the same way, Scarleau keeps nipping at him almost as if he's saying 'stop looking at them, they're mine, all of them'.

Should I be concerned about my males fighting? They're acting a little frantic and I'm hoping it doesn't escalate into aggression towards each other. The cages are situated next to one another (male and female cages), should I move them? or cover one?

 

[Budgiegirl38]

Aaaand more pictures

 

[itzjbean]

Glad to hear they are doing well and are beginning to learn to perch and climb around. This is all part of the weaning process. You are wise to keep your males and females separated. And really as soon as your young baby male gets to be a couple months old, perching around on his own and eating, it would be wise to separate him from females too. They can be prolific breeders if left together with females, but hopefully you wont have to worry about that for a couple more months.

 

[EllenD]

It sounds like they are all doing very well, and that's awesome...

You were absolutely right to separate your males from the females for sure. (no, Rocco will not be trying to mate with anyone yet, so he's fine)...Your males may show some aggression towards each other, this is ALL hormonal behavior that will eventually pass, but keep a close eye on them. If you see any plucking of feathers or any signs of injuries at all, you'll have to separate them as well. Again, this is all hormone-related, and it will pass soon...

Are your females ceres still a dark brown color and crusty? Just wondering if they are still in breeding-season or not...

As far as the babies both perching, eating, etc., this is completely normal, as Itzjbean already mentioned. It's all a part of the "weaning" process, and this is why when breeders who hand-raise their babies move them from the Brooder to their first cage, that cage is called a "weaning cage", and is set-up with many different perches with different diameters and made of different materials, usually have different little ladders for them to learn to climb, and most importantly they have many different types of bird feeder-cups, bowls, water dishes, water bottles, etc. The weaning cage is set-up this way with all of these different options so that the babies learn to be birds outside of the nest box, so that they learn to be able to navigate all different types of perches, things to climb on, etc., and so that they learn to eat and drink out of anything that their new owners may use in their first real cage. Take a minute and Google "budgie weaning cage" and take a look at the images, you'll see how the weaning cage should be set-up for them to succeed and learn quickly...

One more thing that usually helps to move the weaning process along more quickly, if you haven't already done this, is to buy some millet sprays and put them in with the babies ASAP. I usually put a millet spray in with the babies I hand-raise when they are extremely young, I usually put a spray or two in the Brooder actually, before I even move them to their weaning-cage. Usually they will start picking at the millet sprays simply out of curiosity (so it also provides some foraging entertainment as well as being a weaning tool), and once they will typically figure out how to shell seeds very early on from the millet sprays, so that when they are first placed in their weaning cage they will already know how to shell seeds and eat them. This way all they need to learn once they get into the weaning cage is where the food is.

Also, if you're going to wean them onto a pellet staple diet with seeds as only a supplement to the pellets (a very, very, very good idea, as it's extremely hard to get adult budgies who were weaned onto seeds to transition onto pellets), I would also get them some very small, budgie-sized pellets now and put them in with the seeds. The fruit-flavored pellets tend to be easier to get baby budgies to eat, but the Natural Pellets are typically healthier for them. Either way, doesn't matter which type of pellets you choose, they need to be put on them now for it to work. I usually wean them onto Zupreem Fruit Pellets For Budgies, they are very small and they are fortified, have probiotics, etc. Also, Kaytee makes a very good, healthy, fortified fruit pellet for budgies called "Fortidiet Fruit Pellets" that they usually like a lot. The Kaytee Fortidiet Pellets are comparable in ingredients and nutritional values to the Zupreem pellets believe it or not, and both are sold at any Petco. Just mix the pellets in with the seeds, more pellets than seeds though.

One more thing, do make sure that the mother is still feeding them often, at 35 days they still should be getting at least 4 feedings a day from either mom/dad or from hand-feeding formula. It's okay to put a millet spray, seed dish, pellets, etc. in with them now, but ONLY if they are still being fed by mom or by hand-feeding formula. 5 weeks is far too young for them to fully wean, that shouldn't happen until between 8-10 weeks, and if they aren't being fed by mom or being hand-fed at 5 weeks but they have seeds and/or pellets available, they will be their only source of food and they will be forced to start eating them or starve...This is called "Forced-Weaning", and it is definitely not the way you want them to wean, as it can result is serious behavioral and health issues. You want them to "Abundance Wean", which basically means that they have access to seeds/pellets, veggies, fruit, etc., but that they are still being offered food by either mom/dad or by their breeder in the form of hand-feeding formula, and that it's the bird's choice to refuse the formula or the feedings from mom/dad and only eat the solid foods available to them...It's very important that baby birds not be "forced" to eat pellets or seeds, but that it's completely their choice when to stop being fed by mom or by their breeder. Usually, even after they are in their weaning cages and have started to refuse feedings during the day and are eating the pellets/seeds with no issue throughout the day, they will still cry at nighttime for a "comfort feeding" from either mom or from their breeder, and this can continue for a couple of weeks after it seems that they have actually weaned...

 

[Budgiegirl38]

Okay! Thank you much EllenD and Itzjbean for the continued support and advice.

Actually, What prompted me to buy 2 more parakeets (for a total of 4: because I initially only had Maya and Cloudy, the 2 adult females) was this hormonal behavior Ellen mentioned. It was my first spring with them, Maya began attacking cloudy, not just when cloudy would perch by her, but Maya was chasing cloudy around the cage trying to attack her. I left them be and before long, Maya had cloudy on the bottom of the cage. I separated them, and when inspecting cloudy, found that Maya had taken a good bite on her foot. So I separated them into the 2 cages I have now (I bought an extra, identical cage FOR this reason..), 1 in each, for about a week. Put them back together and they were still at ends...So I decided maybe adding another would help with the aggression...Thats when scarlet (then, now scarleau) came into the picture. My 2 females were picking on scarlet, so I bought Kiwi, and here we are....mixed sexes and too many babies later. I really should've just kept Maya and Cloudy in separate cages and called it that.

Are my females cere's still brown and crusty?
Maya's (mama bird) cere is definitely not as swelled or crusty as it was. Hers (before she laid the eggs) did swell, turn a tanish (darker) brown, then lightened up and began to peel (like dead skin). Now it's back to 'normal' size and minus the very pink color. It's a light beige-y color and a bit wrinkly, but definitely nothing like what it was.

Cloudy's cere never got swelled and crusty. It turned beige (more-so when she 'matured' it went from pink to beige/light tan, it's looked the same overall throughout this season), but hasn't crusted over...really at all. It gets a bit wrinkly sometimes but has never swelled and crusted like how Maya's did.

Oddly enough, Cloudy and Kiwi had no interest in one another while Maya and Scarleau were breeding (good thing, but was this because I didn't give them a place to lay eggs? was under the assumption that if they wanted to breed, they'd lay basically anywhere)
When I let them out together today (to clean cage) Kiwi was chasing Maya around and interacting with her a ton. Could it be one of my females is infertile or something? I don't mind either way, but that may explain why cloudy isn't really...parakeet-like. Her personality seems muted. Shes a very shy, sweet bird. Not loud and bubbly like my other 3.

I've had millet in there, accessible to the babies since they were released from their splints. I was really confused and excited the first time I saw Marla nibbling at it. I thought I was spoiling them too much (as I know millet should only be a treat, and that goes for adult birds so, I figured I was doing something I probably shouldn't...) but now that you've mentioned that I'm happy I put that in there. I haven't been home for the past 5 hours, and I haven't seen Maya go to feed them since yesterday...So I'm not sure if she still is feeding them, especially that often...

Perhaps now would be the time to break out that formula... They've had 1 seed cup for in the same spot since they were born. I have plenty more to add into the cage for them though. And Kale, carrots, and cucumber may be on the menu tomorrow, if we have some still...

And YES, yes I would like to get them to eat a pelleted staple diet. I'd probably keep it mixed with kaytee brand parakeet seed (because that is what I have most available to me and it's what my adult birds eat now)...But if I could get Marla and Rocco to eat the pelleted diet I'd be happy...The vet said it herself, a primarily seed diet is no good. I'll be at petco tomorrow.

nd about the breeding itzjbean, Oh yeah, I nipped that 'crap' in the butt as soon as I saw him putting his foot up on her. I was like 'Ohhh, you're not feeding her THAT way!!, oh no you don't, into the other cage you go, sorry buddy'. lol. He was not a happy camper. He seems better now, now that I'm home from work, my males are not frantic anymore, they're perched next to one another talking and bubbling with each other. But yeah, no more babies for me.

I mean, I keep telling myself it was an accident, but I knew what could happen, and I let it happen without taking into consideration all of the MANY things that could go wrong during the process. Lesson learned, I hope everything continues to go smoothly and I hope no more surprises come my way. lol.

 

[EllenD]

I would be checking their crops, and if they are empty then yes, you need to start hand-feeding them with the formula on a regular schedule. I don't know if you're weighing them on a kitchen scale, but they should be gaining daily at this point. At their age they will not be able to eat enough seed to sustain themselves, not even close. They are at least 3 weeks away from weaning, probably longer, so if mom has had enough then you're going to have to step in...

The good news is that it's much easier to feed a baby Budgie with a syringe at their age than it is when they are younger, so it shouldn't be too much of an ordeal for you at all, they should have a pretty immediate, strong feeding-response for you...

 

[itzjbean]

Ooh, yes, in hindsight it would've been better to just keep the two budgies separated, not get more of them. Just makes more chaos, as you've already witnessed. It is something you'll just have to learn to manage as breeding season comes every year.