The newbie comes along..

[vanillasin]

Hello dear fellow-Caique owners :52:

First to me as a person- I'm a 21 year old living in the Netherlands at the moment and current 'mommy' of two caiques- one is roughly one year and 3 months and the other is a new addition since a few days now- with only 3-4 months of age I think.
One is white bellied and a male called Dub and the other is a black headed female called Nacho (both DNA tested) I live together with my boyfriend and we both love our Caiques

Fun fact, I didn't even know caiques existed until my boyfriend introduced me to his caique baby. So you can imagine the pleasant surprise.

So now to my worries as a 'newbie'. I got introduced to Dub(my boyfriends caique in the beginning roughly 9 months ago) when I got together with my boyfriend and it was sort of -wing-it-because-I-will-open-the-cage-now situation and a good one too He and I both bonded and we all lived together happily ever after but now things have gotten a little shaky which is why I would like to receive some feedback from people who've had their animals for years. I understand that every animal is unique and have also researched but maybe someone has something specific catching their filters that I cannot see.

We got our new caique Nacho a few days ago and introduced her to Dub who was very very chill about the situation. He has amazing social skills and knows exactly when to be less'active' in the beginning with people if they are a little queesy about birds- same with this new baby bird who was squeaking like a little cannonball :54:. So Dub was all chill and checked everything out and we let him out to let them meet each other(the breeder advised us to wait but it felt right so we just let him explore while she was within a separate cage) and everything also went well, the little one likes to follow Dub and though at first she was very very shy with hands, has adapted quite nicely since we've used various techniques to let her adapt more. She's also come very far as she's getting used to us and our things (both me and my boyfriend managed to get her to climb on our hands and eat whut whut) BUT(and this is the big BUT) I've also observed more.

Dub and Nacho are a bit unsure of communicating I assume because she will follow him, start preening his feather and he starts to return the favor - however maybe a little too intense as I see Dub trying to pin her neck down and get a good grip before he tries to mount her-sexual behaviour, right?. Now as a human(and a female) on the side, I hate to see this happening when she (every time) clearly snaps at him for trying. He managed to get her stuck above the food bowl once and had my boyfriend not interfered would've probably caused some mental damage because Nacho couldn't get out of the corner while Dub was doing 'his thing'. Now how on earth do I, as a human, handle this? Especially since Nacho tries afterwards cuddling up to Dub again and the whole procedure starts again- him trying to grab her and her saying no, then them trying to play again, him trying to mount her or rub his feathers against her and her squeaking and bickering for a no. I was told it rarely happens that they mate or show interest in each other and the (almost) next day our 'grown up'starts humping the little one? Do I let things go their way because she will tell him when things get out of control or is it even healthy for us to interfere or will that cause him to get frustrated with us? The reason I ask, is because I also received my first Caique-I-do-not-not-like-you-but-right-now-I-hate you attack going on :wacko:

I was casually sitting on the PC to research something when both caiques were out in the open. Nacho sat on the computer screen next to a climbing Dub(from what I can remember)and I paid little attention to them both and didn't see that dub was actually going for it before he was lunging (luckily) not in my face but my hair(which he also sort of aimed for sort of because he knows he can get stuck in there and wrestle when someoen tries to get him out(rarely happens but every now and then it does without the aggression he had this time)) i had my hand in between my face/hair and him and he bit me very hard. He tried a second time after he was put back with the whole -package feathers up and the stare and etc etc but my boyfriend caught him half way and put him back in his cage( i was standing in the doorway half ready to close the door should he come close with a heart rate of probably 800).

What I've read up on the internet so far is logical- don't take it personally he'll come around and it might have just been a bad moment but honestly I must say I am a little skeptic because right now I have no idea what caused it so I would like to know whether the caique goes for one family member or on random when this sort of thing happens and also, will it happen again in the near future? I see posts about mood swing months so I want to be prepared when it happens or should it happen. Right now I just constantly keep an eye out when he's out and I highly doubt that's healthy. Things have returned to normal though for now(last 2 days I do get a little nervous in certain situations with him but I wing it sort of). I'm just genuinely unsure as we took a few steps back in trusting from my side. I thought I had him sort of figured out and obviously never knew there might be a moment when he'd like to gutter my face D: (In a non serious-joking sort of way)

Also when it happens- what do I do? Grab him while flies out of the air and set him back or is it better to leave the room?(I doubt that due to fear and alpha-stuff) or do I distract him with nuts? Is that bad while he's fluffed up?

I doubt anyone here can guess the cause and because I never had to pay attention so much in detail I don't remember what exactly might've triggered it which leaves the cause in mystery. All I can do now is prepare myself so no permanent damage is done between me and him(I've petted him already since then and he is back to normal- except that now sometimes my heart rate increases when he fluffs up but he also does that randomly without aggression) should the situation happen again. I also want to feel confident that even if he's temporarily pissed off, i know how to handle it instead of maybe relying on my boyfriend. What if he isn't around at some point?

I can't see any particular favoring from the bird as it always sort of changes. Sometimes he likes to play more with my boyfriend and sometimes he flies to me because he likes me more. And don't get me wrong, I still love him and everything but I would simply like to be 'prepared' for the next one

In regards to training- me and my boyfriend have tried however are a little clueless as to how to start so our bird isn't really trained yet. Though I believe it will be good as well to start training with the bird to use more energy and make communications between us and them easier. So I'm guessing a good starting point would be at stick training?(Make him go onto a stick instead of everywhere else(especially hair).

Thank you for taking the time to read this, reflect on this and share your wisdom with me Anything you can tell me, ask or anything is much appreciated and I hope to integrate into this forum to read stories, learn new techniques and genuinely have a place where I can give and receive knowledge

Greetings,

vanillasin

 

[MonicaMc]

First off, welcome to the forum!

Since you have two different species of caiques that are opposite sex, you need to be prepared for possible hybridization in the future. The offspring can end up looking closer to either parent rather than an actual mix between the two.

Have you seen videos of caiques wrestling? Is Dub actually trying to mate with her or wrestle with her? (it should be pretty clear to you, since you are seeing it first hand)

I agree with the breeder. Are they in the same cage or in separate cages? I would definitely recommend keeping them in separate cages! If he's not "being nice" to her, then they should be separated at all times unless they can be supervised while out of the cages together.

Some birds may start mating the same day they meet each other, others may take weeks, months even years before they decide to mate! And others may never mate! So it's really all an individual thing...

Is the lunging and biting new behavior with Dub? He could be overly hyped about Nacho being there, or maybe mad for another reason. Whether or not the behavior happens again will depend on if the triggers for the behavior repeat themselves. Will he only do this to certain people or to everyone is also entirely up to him.

When the behavior happens you need to figure out what caused it to happen, then remove or reduce the triggers for the behavior, so as to try and prevent the behavior from repeating itself. Then, train new behaivors that he can do in favor of the behaviors you don't like! Of course, if a bird bites you, it is best to try and gently remove the bird from your body and then think about what just happened. If he's already fluffed up, you may want to avoid handling him until he calms down, unless he knows any behaviors that will help him to calm down.


It sounds like the behavior may be stemming from the fact that Nacho is there now, which is resulting in Dub displaying new behaviors that he may not have displayed before.

A good thing to train first off is actually to target! If he's in a mood that he can't be handled, it may be beneficial to be able to target him to a specific location without having to handle him!


You may be interested in these trainers/websites. These have a lot of great info on training and other behaviors!

Barbara Heidenreich
Lara Joseph
Susan Friedman
Jim McKendry
Steve Martin
Sid Price
Learning Parrots
Cage Free Parrot

 

[vanillasin]

First off, welcome to the forum!

Thank you very much! And thanks for taking the time to read my long intro

From what I can tell he is trying to mate-which I'm fine with if the little one is 'technically ready' which they shouldn't be though until the age of 2 right? When they sexually mature? Her being so young is the only aspect that makes me puzzle on whether I should interfere or not. Is there a rule in the bird world like in the dog world that a puppy is a puppy and most likely won't get touched by older ones until it is ready or is this something completely different in the bird world?

As for the cages, we keep them in different cages at the moment except for a few situations when we are both in the living room to watch- then they can play in the big cage or on the floor. We used to have Dub in the big cage but before Nacho came we moved him to a different one and also made sure to re-organize both completely with new toys etc so he wouldn't feel jealousy for 'loosing' something. Now he's mainly in the alternative cage and she is in the big one. They are together mostly in the evening times. Yesterday it was actually really adorable because they slept next to each other. They were both all fluffed up and cuddling with each other. Dub has his head below Nacho's and they both slept that way- it was really cute.

The lunging and biting was a new behaviour, yes. As said, I (in the last 9 months) have never even thought about him being a 'serious' danger(slap on the fingers from my side because it shows I should have researched more and taken him seriously-maybe that is also partially my fault. Not acknowledging his animal side and only seeing him for this fluffy and cuddly personality) which is why I cannot even say what set him off the first time. Maybe it was the light reflection from the pc in my eyes, maybe it was him seeing me in the mirror in a weird way(he's used to mirrors though from my boyfriends old place) but so far things have settled down and he hasn't shown anything 'angry' again. I think I was just really 'temporarily' shaken by his behaviour I'm starting to feel comfortable around him more and more and I'm thinking if it happens again, it happens. It's natural. It's their character and loving him means accepting even that

Thank you for advising me on what to do- that's exactly the sort of what I was looking for and I'm sure even if the next time is there, at least I can react properly avoiding any damage to him by my reactions

I will research the target-training you mention. In general I would like to start training with him as well as it means he will also use more energy and can understand what I'm saying more maybe So I shall dive into the world of trainings. SO to finish up that part-thank you for your help!

Now, to fully introduce the spirit of our Caique, here's a picture of him quirkying around I have more in the folder on my profile and will update photos from Nacho shortly

 

[MonicaMc]

Just because they reach sexual maturity with both mental and physical health at around 2 years in age doesn't mean they can't breed before then! It's possible for them to breed as early as 8 months old, give or take. It's not a good idea, but it can happen.

Breeding parrots is nothing like breeding dogs. It's not like breeding a yellow lab with a black lab, it's more like breeding a lion and a tiger (when speaking of two different species, such as you have). Offspring will be hybrids, and many people do frown upon creating hybrids. Not only that, but breeding birds are often not very good pets. Generally speaking, pets don't make good breeders and breeders don't make good pets. Doesn't mean you can't have both worlds, just if they ever do breed, don't expect them to remain tame and friendly!

Hybrid, Not Mutation | Voren's Aviaries Inc


Hormonal males don't necessarily care who they mate with, they may even mate with their own chicks before the chicks are weaned!

So in short, if he's trying to mate with her and not wrestle, and she's not accepting his behavior, you need to intervene! And in doing so, you may get bit! Caiques are very fun birds, but they can be incredibly feisty, too!



I know it's a lot to learn and more than you expected! Dub is cute, but it sounds like he's going to be a handful as Nacho grows older!