Vet Appointment

kme3388

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Nico has been to the vet twice in the last week. He is having issues with his nostrils. Both vets did a nasal flush, and Nico's avian vet showed me how to do it at home. He is currently getting antibiotics that are being administered as nose drops. I am doing this 3 times a day. Nico had a lot of debris that came out of his nose during both flushes. I did mention that Nico, and ekkies do tend to regurgitate to the vet. Maybe that's whats causing him to have so much debris coming out of his nostrils? I'm sure all of that bacteria coming back up from the stomach can't be good to get into nostrils if it does. Once the feathers were pulled back away from his nostrils I could really see the redness in the one nostril. I felt awful for Nico. I am not sure if bornavirus causes some of this? or if this is just a common ekkie issue?

Has anyone ran into this issue? I am just worried about Nico. He's a sweet little boy, and it just feels like its been one medical issue after the other. Which I do not mind. I am constantly poking at him trying to help him. I am surprised Nico likes me at all.
 

ravvlet

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Not an Ekkie owner so sorry for intruding, but my Amazon has seriously had almost monthly nasal flushes at the vet this year. We have tried aloe baths, putting in a humidifier, upgrading his air filter, and are now doing saline drops twice a day. I know orange wing amazons tend to be more dusty than others; are Ekkies dusty too? Our vet thinks it’s just dander and feather dust in his case that are getting stuck in there.

Our vet lightly sedates him to do his nose flush and sometimes he’d regurgitate after too. I’m not sure how often your guy is regurgitating though… he had a bacterial infection at first as well, but we managed to get that under control. He’s had medicated drops at one point also.

I hope someone else here has insight for you! Kirby has also handled my poking and prodding with surprising grace. Thankful for the endless patience these little feathered critters seem to have for us!
 

SailBoat

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We have not experienced ongoing issues like this. At most a couple of time during Winter months, but even that has diminished since we had a humidifier added to our forced air furnace.

Huge Amazon Feather Hugs and Prayers your way!!
 
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kme3388

kme3388

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Eclectus Parrot: Nico (male)
Jenday Conure: Kiwi (female)
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Nico does get a lot of feather dander after he has been preening himself. Espcially after he shakes, and straightens out his feathers. Nico regurgitates all day everyday. From what I gathered this is an Ekkie thing? He does have bornavirus too which probably just adds to this situation.
 

SailBoat

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Nico does get a lot of feather dander after he has been preening himself. Espcially after he shakes, and straightens out his feathers. Nico regurgitates all day everyday. From what I gathered this is an Ekkie thing? He does have bornavirus too which probably just adds to this situation.

Not an expert regarding Bornavirus, but IMHO, you need to become an expert and targeting longer, healthier life for your guy. We work with Older Amazons and Illness is common with that group. We target getting them as healthy as possible and dump huge amounts of Love on them! Learn and do whatever you need too!
 

ravvlet

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A brief survey of literature on avian bornavirus / PDD indicates frequent regurgitation can be a symptom of the disease. Poor fella. It’s possible - if the regurgitation is symptomatic rather than species related or behavioral - that your vet can offer palliative care techniques or medication to reduce the rate at which it’s occuring. I’m not sure if there’s a causal relationship between regurgitation and his clogged nares; that’s another thing I’d want to clarify with the vet first.

You might already be doing this but keeping a daily log of events like regurgitation etc might be helpful in determining if it’s worsening or a disease related issue. Doing deep cleans with disinfectant might also be helpful; bornavirus is not very stable and can be gotten rid of with most mild cleaners. Reducing viral load in the enviroment may help with immediate symptoms.

Again, all this with a grain of salt as I’m not a vet! I was instructed by my avian vet to disinfect Kirby’s areas frequently to prevent infection in his nares and it’s been working well for us.
 
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saxguy64

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My ekkie is ABV positive as well. Of the many strains of ABV, only a few of them are symptomatic or lead to PDD. I've seen estimates that 50-60% or more of ALL domestic parrots in the US would test positive if all were tested for it, so it's not a death sentence for the vast majority of our birdies. I wouldn't have thought to test Tucker for it if he hadn't had an episode of toe tapping. That thankfully was unrelated to ABV, and through close monitoring of his diet, turned out that a batch of dark purple grapes was the trigger for him. Who knew?

Male ekkies... regurge is, in my experience just a fact of life. Consider the role they play in the wild. They are not monogamous, and there is no set breeding season. It's entirely opportunistic, any time of year. A female will find a nesting spot, and because of competition for those spots, won't leave it while nesting unless absolutely necessary. She will rely on multiple males to feed and "service" her. In turn, individual males will take care of multiple females, I think just on the hope they might get lucky lol. Anyway, it's kind of hard wired into them to feed mates, or as I've experienced, any object, perch, toy, even person that they see as a substitute. It's gross, I know. Tucker mostly confines it to certain places in his cage, and I've learned the signs if it's coming when he's out with me. I usually just tell him no thank you buddy, and place him somewhere else for a few minutes. :)
 

ravvlet

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Thanks for the clarification! I wasn’t sure (I had read that ABV could lead to PDD but didn’t see the info on the rate at which that might occur) if it was a potential concern.

Still - having traces of regurgitated food matter could be contributing to bacteria; and if he’s scratching his nose on surfaces he might be picking some of it up. Kirby’s areas are super clean and he still managed to get a bacteria infection going so it’s definitely not your fault! I have had success using F10SC; he hasn’t had another bacterial infection in his nares since I’ve started using it on his cage and playstand once a month for a deep clean!
 
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kme3388

kme3388

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Eclectus Parrot: Nico (male)
Jenday Conure: Kiwi (female)
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Its hard too because I was just going to take in a Macaw. Because Nico has this bornavirus I had to message his vet, and bother her again. I don't want to harm another parrot if this is highly contagious. Nor do I want to stress out Nico, and make him worse either. I am still waiting on her response. Otherwise I will just give this person looking for a home for her Macaw my vets phone number sense my vet runs a parrot shelter. Maybe my vet can help this lady find a safe home for her Macaw.
 
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kme3388

kme3388

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Thanks for the clarification! I wasn’t sure (I had read that ABV could lead to PDD but didn’t see the info on the rate at which that might occur) if it was a potential concern.

Still - having traces of regurgitated food matter could be contributing to bacteria; and if he’s scratching his nose on surfaces he might be picking some of it up. Kirby’s areas are super clean and he still managed to get a bacteria infection going so it’s definitely not your fault! I have had success using F10SC; he hasn’t had another bacterial infection in his nares since I’ve started using it on his cage and playstand once a month for a deep clean!
What is F10SC?
 

ravvlet

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What is F10SC?
It’s a veterinary grade disinfectant! You can find it on Amazon and other online marketplaces; the “SC” means super concentrated so you dilute it in water to use it as a cleaning agent. It’s powerful enough to kill PBFD. The amount they sell you (200ml) will last for YEARS. They recommend dilution amounts on the bottle :
General disinfection at 1:500 (2ml in 1 liter of water) High level disinfection against bacteria, fungi and most viruses at 1:250 (4ml to 1 liter of water) For use against the most resistant viruses such as Parvovirus or PBFD at 1:125 (8ml in 1 liter or water)
I use it at the 4ml level. The use instructions are on the bottle & it comes with a little instruction booklet (and you can always check online for the instructions too, their website I think has them as PDFs). I had heard about it from someone on here actually, and ran it by my vet at an appointment who said it was great stuff.

Edited to add: oh, actually it looks like you can get it direct from the manufacturer, and they have a version that’s already diluted and in a spray bottle! https://purecleanbio.com/products/f10sc-veterinary-disinfectant
 
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saxguy64

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I'm curious what your vet says about the Mac. When Tucker tested positive for ABV, my vet recommended I consider my flock closed and don't bring in any more birds. Subsequently, I've had Baxter tested several times, and she's been negative. I guess everything for a reason... She doesn't care for young stud muffin Tucker, so they're never out together.
 
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kme3388

kme3388

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Eclectus Parrot: Nico (male)
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I am good with math, biology isn't my thing. I figured I should contact my vet about the bornavirus prior to bringing in another parrot. I wasn't sure about how contagious/infectious it is. I am now kind of curious on what she has to say as well. I know she said Macaws are susceptible to getting this, and I figured she would get back to me later. I am guessing some birds are just more prone to getting this, and showing symptoms then others. I recently contacted the American Federation of Aviculture as Nico has AFA on his legband to see if I can find out his age, or anything about him. I know nothing as I adopted him. He's had a lot of health issues.
 

HeatherG

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Hi,

It seems to me that regurgitate from the crop (not stomach) shouldn’t be going into the sinus cavities or nasal area/ nostrils. Normal bonding regurgitation is a controlled thing. The mushy food comes up from the crop due to crop contractions and neck pumping and goes into the mouth, where the bird passes on his yummy treat or swallows it back down again.

Real vomiting would get up their nose; I’ve seen that when my Lucy got carsick. It’s not controlled and the bird shakes it’s head to clear the vomitus from mouth and nose.

That being said, I haven’t read up on PDD or Bornavirus for many years and an active ‘infection’ could well cause vomiting and a nosefull. Which could predispose for an infection. But I don’t think regurging would.

I hope that is helpful? I don’t think you need to worry about the regurg if it’s normal.
 
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kme3388

kme3388

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Sep 17, 2021
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Eclectus Parrot: Nico (male)
Jenday Conure: Kiwi (female)
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I am now just waiting on my vet if bornavirus is highly contagious, or if this is specific to a individual parrot that doesn't have a strong immune system? That way I can make a decision about the Macaw I was going to include into the flock.
 
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kme3388

kme3388

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Sep 17, 2021
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Minnesota, USA
Parrots
Eclectus Parrot: Nico (male)
Jenday Conure: Kiwi (female)
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It’s a veterinary grade disinfectant! You can find it on Amazon and other online marketplaces; the “SC” means super concentrated so you dilute it in water to use it as a cleaning agent. It’s powerful enough to kill PBFD. The amount they sell you (200ml) will last for YEARS. They recommend dilution amounts on the bottle :

I use it at the 4ml level. The use instructions are on the bottle & it comes with a little instruction booklet (and you can always check online for the instructions too, their website I think has them as PDFs). I had heard about it from someone on here actually, and ran it by my vet at an appointment who said it was great stuff.

Edited to add: oh, actually it looks like you can get it direct from the manufacturer, and they have a version that’s already diluted and in a spray bottle! https://purecleanbio.com/products/f10sc-veterinary-disinfectant
I did buy the F10SC off amazon to try to clean his cage better in hopes that it prevents further infections in the future. I vet wrap Nico's main stand as he likes softer surfaces. I'm not sure how I am going to disinfect that yet.
 

HeatherG

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I did buy the F10SC off amazon to try to clean his cage better in hopes that it prevents further infections in the future. I vet wrap Nico's main stand as he likes softer surfaces. I'm not sure how I am going to disinfect that yet.

When I used vet wrap on Lucy’s things,I would either peel off the old wrap and replace with new, or peel off, sanitize, and replace with new.

I don’t know how else to clean a vet wrapped surface as the little bumps would trap soil.
 

HeatherG

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i believe bornavirus is very contagious although a sicker bornavirus-positive bird would likely have a higher viral load and thus be more infectious than a more well bornavirus-positive bird.

If I had a bird with bornavirus I would probably not add to my flock, and I would be careful about contact with other birds (psittacines?).

Does Nico’s vet know you’re considering buying another bird? The vet would be able to recommend a caring choice of actions.
 
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kme3388

kme3388

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Eclectus Parrot: Nico (male)
Jenday Conure: Kiwi (female)
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i believe bornavirus is very contagious although a sicker bornavirus-positive bird would likely have a higher viral load and thus be more infectious than a more well bornavirus-positive bird.

If I had a bird with bornavirus I would probably not add to my flock, and I would be careful about contact with other birds (psittacines?).

Does Nico’s vet know you’re considering buying another bird? The vet would be able to recommend a caring choice of actions.
I sent the vet a messge about my interest in a Macaw, and specifically asked about the bornavirus. I know she mentioned that she cares for flocks with this. She was the one who told me many birds carry this virus, and some never show symptoms while others like Nico do. I read somewhere online that if you were to test a flock some will test positive while others will not. I take what I read online with a grain of salt as you can google anything, and get the results you want. It's not really reliable. My vet didn't get back to me, and the person looking to get rid of her Macaw needs that to take place this weekend.
 

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