What are the options with a female Eclectus that is unhappy unless she's free to mate?

cytherian

Active member
Dec 29, 2020
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114
Near NYC
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Eclectus
So, long story short--two Eclectus birds, one male (11 years), one female (12 years). who came as a mated pair (since they were only a few years old). They live next to each other in separate cages. 3 years ago they had a baby. He has grown up nicely. His cage is adjacent to the female. He is kept separate from the other two when they are out, as they will bother him.

Btw, I'm not the owner. I have a housemate who owns, feeds, and cares for these birds. I help her frequently with taking care of them, feeding them when she's away, etc.

The thing I'm wanting to know about is regarding the female. I've posted about her before (link). At times she makes this really awfully loud, unpleasant squawk. It's usually when there are people nearby and we've determined it's a sound of frustration. She doesn't want to be in the cage. She wants to be out with her mate. Essentially she has 2 cycles of living: 1) nesting and 2) procreation.

When nesting, she's extremely easy. After laying eggs, fake ones are substituted and most of the time she's sitting on her nest in her cage. She has a routine down to minimize pooping in her nest. She comes out and paces back/forth at her door. We let her out onto a nearby "gym" platform where she hangs out, eats, drinks, preens, and of course poops. After about 10~15 mins, she's ready to go back to her cage and we hand carry her back. Nesting, she's totally quiet.

When she has no nest, things are a very different story. Every day, it's important for caged birds to have time outside. The adult male is very easy to handle. We can let him out and trust that he won't get himself into trouble. He loves to go around and feed his mate and even feed his son, one cage over. He'll be atop and regurgitate through the bars. The son loves it. He'll perch in a variety of locations and when it's time to get him back in his cage, he generally cooperates. The female is a problem, though.

When we'd let the female out, she'd immediately focus on scoping out the room she is in, looking around fervently. Then she'll fly off, usually to a spot she sees that she believes has nesting potential. We had numerous problems where she'd go under furniture. All furniture gaps are walled off now. But, we have shelves and she will fly to them seeking for some place to stake out as her nest. Trying to recover her is another huge problem. She bites. HARD. She has damaged her owner's hand, gashing through flesh, bruising tendon... yeah, that hard. It's awful. The male never bites that hard.

My housemate's solution to this problem was to take out a carrier she uses to transport a bird to the vet, and set it on the living room couch. It's a very high quality carrier, super sturdy, and is roomy enough for 2 birds to fit inside. There's also a perch in there. So when the female is let out, WHOOSH--she flies right to it, scrambles inside, and starts nesting behavior. When the male sees this, he'll get very agitated, doing his rapid short wing flutter, and making chirps for wanting out. As soon as he's let out, WHOOSH--he rapidly flies over to be with her. He'll go inside and mate with her. They'd hang out inside and around the carrier for the entire day, until they're hungry enough to go eat their food in their cages.

There's another complication, and that is, sometimes these two birds don't get along. For some reason, the male will at times perch on the sill of the opening flap to go in and spread his wings wide, then make hostile sparring gestures with his beak. The female will spar back with him and do a frequent territorial head-bob. Sometimes they simmer down and stop, but other times they get so hostile with each other that they physically attack each other and have to be separated. For this reason, they can't be left alone hanging out together unsupervised. So, during a workday, until about 6pm~7pm, they're in their cages and they can't go anywhere. The female is generally quiet until a human is nearby. Quickly, she moves herself to the highest point in her cage, rests on the perch there, and stares into the kitchen where the human(s) are. And lets out an ear piercing squawk, about 1 or 2 per minute. She does this while staring at you. Close the curtain between the cage area and the kitchen, and she squawks less, but as soon as you make any noise she's back to squawking.

My assessment of all this: the female wants to be with her male companion and free to mate, and to exercise nest prepping behavior. Not getting this, she's unhappy, and will let her human owners know by letting out this nasty loud squawk when we're in range. While my housemate and I work from home, we can't babysit these two during the day. Too time consuming and unpredictable.

So what would be a good solution for this? Is the female having a visual line of sight with the male the instigation of the problem? Should they be separated so they can't see each other? I'm just wondering since they've spent most of their years in close proximity, would that wreak emotional havoc on them changing things up... Also, if they are physically separated enough where all they can do is vocalize to each other and not see each other until given out-time, will they become more difficult to get back into their cages?

One thing -- we did try to control the female's hormones with an implant. It was an extremely expensive procedure and it was supposed to effectively suppress her reproductive drive (so that no eggs would be produced) for up to 1 year. But, it didn't work, on the two separate attempts.

And lastly... is it safe to say that some females just naturally have an extremely strong drive to reproduce and that they really should be living in a situation where they can do it, such as in the care of a breeder? She usually pumps out 2 to 3 eggs in her egg laying cycle. AND... she's extremely dedicated to incubation. We once let her sit on an egg (fake) for 7 weeks... and she still wouldn't abandon it (we had to take it out with the nesting box when she was out). Otherwise, I assume there might be some other techniques we've not yet tried to help stem the drive of the female, and make her more "audibly copacetic".
 
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chris-md

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It might be useful to ask the vet about parrot training to change the behavior of the female.
this is a hormonal issue. Unfortunately no training can touch this.

Can you remind me What exactly have you done to control the hormones beyond the implant? How old is she again?

To be clear the implant can work up to a year but in many cases it can be 2 months or less. Was the vet clear that the implant is meant first and foremost to help prevent excessive egg laying? Was it a failure in that respect?

Can you provide specifics on the diet?
 
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cytherian

cytherian

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Dec 29, 2020
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Near NYC
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Eclectus
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this is a hormonal issue. Unfortunately no training can touch this.

Can you remind me What exactly have you done to control the hormones beyond the implant? How old is she again?

To be clear the implant can work up to a year but in many cases it can be 2 months or less. Was the vet clear that the implant is meant first and foremost to help prevent excessive egg laying? Was it a failure in that respect?

Can you provide specifics on the diet?
Hello Chris,
My apologizes for a late reply. My notifications for responses were caught by my spam filter. Nothing else has been done to control the hormones beyond the implant.
The ekkies in our care receive a special Ekkie seed & grain mix every day, plus a scoop of greenie pellets that are refreshed every few days. The Ekkie feed is purchased by a vendor who specializes in formulating feeds for various birds. This one is specially formulated for the Eclectus. They seem to enjoy it and overall, they are all very healthy.
In addition to this, they get fresh foods as well. In the morning, usually it's a small assortment of fruits (banana and berries like blueberry, raspberry, or blackberry; kiwi or pomegranate seeds; sometimes melon). At night it's a veggie serving of snap peas, cucumber, corn, peas, and other veggies that they love.

The female and male are a mated pair that was established before they were adopted. They were not copulating at that time. He was estimated 5 and she was 6. They are now 5 years older.

The female is in 1 of either 2 modes: Copulating and hunting for a hollow for nesting, or egg laying and incubating eggs in a nest. There is no in between. If she has no eggs to lay on and she's stuck in her cage, she appears to be miserable. She rarely plays with anything. She'll just sit still and look out into space, or at her mate. I've witness them staring at each other through the bars--their cages are adjacent. And as I've mentioned, she'll squawk really loud and unpleasntly.

Yes, she is very hormonal. Maybe some birds are just wired this way? The male wants to be with her all the time, to the point of pestering her. Sometimes when they're out on the play gym during her nesting breaks, she will feed him. And at other times, he is feeding her. But then, all of the sudden, they are fighting. It could be a number of things. She is VERY territorial of food and water on the play gym. It's "communal" food and water. But when she is out, she won't tolerate him eating or drinking. It's "hers" until she decides otherwise. Maybe he gets mad at her for that.

BTW, one interesting observation I made. Often when the male is out and the female is caged, he will sit atop and feed her through the bars. She loves it and chirps happily. But sometimes he'll just stop and stare at her. She'll be opening her beak and poking it through the bars, "asking" for food... and he'll be motionless. She'll make little chirps to indicate she wants more. But he does nothing. He doesn't leave. He just stares at her. The human projection is that he's being cruel. But maybe he doesn't have any more food to regurgitate and doesn't know what to do? You'd think he'd just move away. And at times he'll move to the other side of her cage top, but she'll follow him. Eventually she gives up and goes back down to her nest.
 

DonnaBudgie

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Jan 24, 2023
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Windham, Maine
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Hello Chris,
My apologizes for a late reply. My notifications for responses were caught by my spam filter. Nothing else has been done to control the hormones beyond the implant.
The ekkies in our care receive a special Ekkie seed & grain mix every day, plus a scoop of greenie pellets that are refreshed every few days. The Ekkie feed is purchased by a vendor who specializes in formulating feeds for various birds. This one is specially formulated for the Eclectus. They seem to enjoy it and overall, they are all very healthy.
In addition to this, they get fresh foods as well. In the morning, usually it's a small assortment of fruits (banana and berries like blueberry, raspberry, or blackberry; kiwi or pomegranate seeds; sometimes melon). At night it's a veggie serving of snap peas, cucumber, corn, peas, and other veggies that they love.

The female and male are a mated pair that was established before they were adopted. They were not copulating at that time. He was estimated 5 and she was 6. They are now 5 years older.

The female is in 1 of either 2 modes: Copulating and hunting for a hollow for nesting, or egg laying and incubating eggs in a nest. There is no in between. If she has no eggs to lay on and she's stuck in her cage, she appears to be miserable. She rarely plays with anything. She'll just sit still and look out into space, or at her mate. I've witness them staring at each other through the bars--their cages are adjacent. And as I've mentioned, she'll squawk really loud and unpleasntly.

Yes, she is very hormonal. Maybe some birds are just wired this way? The male wants to be with her all the time, to the point of pestering her. Sometimes when they're out on the play gym during her nesting breaks, she will feed him. And at other times, he is feeding her. But then, all of the sudden, they are fighting. It could be a number of things. She is VERY territorial of food and water on the play gym. It's "communal" food and water. But when she is out, she won't tolerate him eating or drinking. It's "hers" until she decides otherwise. Maybe he gets mad at her for that.

BTW, one interesting observation I made. Often when the male is out and the female is caged, he will sit atop and feed her through the bars. She loves it and chirps happily. But sometimes he'll just stop and stare at her. She'll be opening her beak and poking it through the bars, "asking" for food... and he'll be motionless. She'll make little chirps to indicate she wants more. But he does nothing. He doesn't leave. He just stares at her. The human projection is that he's being cruel. But maybe he doesn't have any more food to regurgitate and doesn't know what to do? You'd think he'd just move away. And at times he'll move to the other side of her cage top, but she'll follow him. Eventually she gives up and goes back down to her nest.
Wow. What a miserable existence for a female bird that doesn't enjoy life unless she's breeding. Is it possible to get a second opinion from a different avian vet about how to suppress this behavior with a hormone blocker? Perhaps the dose in the implant she was given wasn't adequate. Maybe a different hormone blocker is available that would be more effective. Perhaps a very experienced avian vet can treat the problem surgically. I know that surgery like that can't safely be done on a small parrot but Ekkies are pretty big birds so perhaps she's a candidate. It certainly sounds like she's not very happy the way things are.
 

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