X-breeding a COCKATOO and an ECLECTUS

[labell]

I really can't stand the designer thing. I am loved by a purebred Standard Poodle. He is amazing looking and one of the most loyal, loving, protective, highly intelligent dogs I have ever owned. It is because of those very desirable traits that people breed them to every other dog under the sun! Why mess with perfection? The answer ALWAYS comes down to money, people say it's to avoid some of the grooming issue which is bunk, I have seen some of the cross-bred dogs and their coat looks even more difficult to groom or they look just awful because the hair is so very different.

Now being that I also love and adore the eclectus species these same answers apply, someone looking for rarity and money. Plain and simple. The feathers are completely different, one has powder the other an oil gland. The truth is IF this cross could even happen which I highly doubt, the off- spring would be imo inferior in every way and in some ways that could be life threatening. I actually find it sad that he has taken two birds that want to breed so badly that they are mating with each other because there are no other choices and seems to be wanting this to happen. I find the "designer" name this person has chosen and the avatar picture of the two birds mating frankly sad and offensive!

 

[Sterling1113]

I agree with Labell; whether someone is intentionally trying to crossbreed a 'too and an ekkie or not, you know the one thing on their mind is "Imagine what this would sell for!"
If one could make it happen, they'd probably be focused on trying to make a living off of it, by selling to ignorant people who don't understand the dangers of crossbred offspring.
(Even the red factor sun conures. You can't breed two red factors; even if they produced viable offspring the life expectancy is roughly 6 months.)
Not to say the OP is specifically out for money, but that's how I'd feel if I heard about someone legitimately trying to make this happen.

 

[MonicaMc]

Cockatoos can only hybridize with other cockatoos. Cockatiels are within the cockatoo family, so that applies.

Eclectus can hybridize with the other eclectus subspecies. I do think eclectus would be capable of hybridization with [certain] other species as well, but I have no confirmation on this, nor would I recommend such hybridization due to the specialized diet that eclectus may require.



If the egg were ever fertile, you have a higher chance of that egg being whatever species the mother is (in this case, a cockatoo) than a hybrid. The only way for this to happen is through parthenogenesis - that is growth and development of embryos occur without fertilization. This occurs "frequently" within lizards (particularly lizards of a specific species, where all lizards are females), although is much more rare in birds. I have heard of it happening in cockatiels, lovebirds, finches and I think chickens as well? I have yet to hear about it in a medium or large parrot, though.



Hybridization does occur out in the wild, but how much of that can you blame on human encroachment? Animals have less territory where they can breed and roam, so species that wouldn't normally co-mingle are now forced to live within closer proximity with each other. Add in predators, poaching, chemicals, etc and you have animals in a rapid state of decline in numbers, thus fewer mates to choose from. Once breeding time comes around, you may end up with a bird (or animal) who'll choose any mate it can get and hybridization occurs.

 

[MikeyTN]

Delfin,

I did forget that there's an Eclectus in Australia. Oops....

 

[WhirlyBirdy]

I'm going to go scientific on all of you, genetically speaking I don't think it is possible. I mean sure there a cockatoo galah hybrids, and there are conure hybrids and macaw hybrids but they are all relatively closely related genetically. but eclectus parrots and cockatoos, diverged from one another genetically a long time ago and it simply would not be possible for them to reproduce, sure they can try but that egg will be infertile

 

[RavensGryf]

This thread kept making me think of lions and tigers... Ligers and Tigons are born. Got me thinking how they're two completely different kind of cats! Or maybe more genetically similar than I thought.

Obviously I'm not pulling out any scientific text books here... but is the breeding possible since lions and tigers are both felines, horses and donkeys and zebras are all equines, but the different parrots are actually different species? BUT then they're all Psittacines!
Not to go so far OT... But any clarification would be interesting.

 

[Delfin]

I think that to answer this we would need to ask a genetic scientist for their professional opinion.

 

[RavensGryf]

I think that to answer this we would need to ask a genetic scientist for their professional opinion.

Well then never mind. :52:

 

[Anansi]

I think that to answer this we would need to ask a genetic scientist for their professional opinion.

Well then never mind. :52:

Hahaha! Julie, you gave up comically quick on that one!

Out of thousands of members, there must be at least ONE geneticist, right? Surely, at least one! Uhm... right? Anyone? Anyone?

Bueller?

 

[Kiwibird]

This thread kept making me think of lions and tigers... Ligers and Tigons are born. Got me thinking how they're two completely different kind of cats! Or maybe more genetically similar than I thought.

Obviously I'm not pulling out any scientific text books here... but is the breeding possible since lions and tigers are both felines, horses and donkeys and zebras are all equines, but the different parrots are actually different species? BUT then they're all Psittacines!
Not to go so far OT... But any clarification would be interesting.

Well, it may be possible, but keep in mind when the animals you have pointed out crossbreed (lion+tigers, horses+donkeys, ext...), the offspring are typically sterile and have higher incidence of other genetic issues (albanism, blindness, deformities and higher incident of congenital diseases). As for lumping all parrots into a single family of animals, that doesn't necessarily mean they are all genetically similar enough to crossbreed. Humans are in the primate family, but that does not mean we would be able to produce offspring with gorillas, or that it could be compatible with life even if possible. Even within our own genus, there is a lot of new research coming out about early hominids cross-breeding going back tens of thousands of years. They are starting to identify now in people who carry neanderthal genes genetic defects due to crossbreeding introduced before the stone age that make them more prone to certain diseases (obesity, type 2 diabetes and certain autoimmune diseases/immune function in particular) that does not show up in other human populations who never crossbred with other hominids. This crossbreeding occurred naturally time and eternity ago and is STILL affecting decedents all these millennia later. I think a better comparison for genetically similar species like 2 macaw species breeding would be humans of different ethnicities having children- no heightened risk of genetic issues that are not randomly occurring or environmentally caused. Crossing genetically different species such as a eclectus and cockatoo would probably be more comparable to (if they still existed) another hominid species having children with a human- close enough to possibly produce young, but too far apart to reasonable assume the offspring would be viable or healthy.

I'm not a geneticist, but I do find the subject fascinating and have done a lot of my own research into it. If anything, this would be unethical to deliberately attempt at best.

 

[MonicaMc]

Actually, from my understanding, female tigons and ligers are fertile where-as the male are not. Therefore, it is possible to get 2nd generation hybrids.

TI-TIGON HYBRID - Ti-Tigon (Panthera tigris x Panthera leo) x Panthera tigris - Pawsforwildlife.co.uk Facts and information
Litigon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...er-liger-lion-tiger-big-cats-animals-science/
Oklahoma Zoo Home to America's First 'Liligers' - ABC News
TI-LIGER HYBRID - Ti-Liger (Panthera leo x Panthera tigris) x Panthera tigris - Pawsforwildlife.co.uk Facts and information

How's that for a messy beast?!?!?!?!




We have some messy parrots, too.... to include hybrids of....

Rosella x Kakariki (Kakarella)
Eastern Rosella x Red Rumped Parrot
Scarlet Chested Parakeet x Princess Parrot
Rainbow Lorikeet x King Parrot
Crimson Rosella x Eastern Rosella x Mallee Ringneck (50% Rosella, 50% Mallee)
Mitred Conure x Blue Fronted Amazon (among other conure x amazon hybrids)
Indian Ringneck x Blue Naped Parrot (Blue Naped Parrots being related to Great Billed Parrots)



Not to include the cockatiel x galah hybrids, or the small conures (green cheek, maroon bellied, black capped) hybridized with large conures (nanday, dusky, sun, patagonian)....

 

[Dinosrawr]

Oh my. Lions and tigers and bears, it sounds like! Or... ligers, tigons, and grolar bears?

Humor aside, there's a reason this doesn't happen in the wild: niches. Eventually animals become segregated into their own niches, and eventually speciation occurs, and voila! Interbreeding becomes highly unlikely, if not physically possible due to infertility. I will admit, there's some benefit to hybridization in SOME cases, but not all. If an animal is able to interbreed with other animals and produce viable offspring, you have genetic recombination occurring and thus a higher chance to produce a mutation that may become viable during stressful times. Of course, that all comes down to chance and in no way "magically" happens - animals don't just choose to become better.

But, back on topic! Cross-breeding a cockatoo and an eclectus is a huge NO-NO. Like mentioned previously, it'd be like trying to put a gorilla in the same pen as a human and telling them to go at it like bunnies... terrible, terrible idea. There's a reason it doesn't happen in the wild, and if it isn't happening there, it's foolish to think you can challenge nature and come out the winner.

Basically, don't try this at home!

 

[RavensGryf]

I think that to answer this we would need to ask a genetic scientist for their professional opinion.

Well then never mind. :52:

Hahaha! Julie, you gave up comically quick on that one!

Out of thousands of members, there must be at least ONE geneticist, right? Surely, at least one! Uhm... right? Anyone? Anyone?

Bueller?

LOL Stephen... I wasn't so sure my dry humor on that would come across :52: Thank goodness for emoticons :52:

But honestly it would be interesting to know the answer!

 

[Delfin]

I think most people don't have a problem if interbreeding occurs in nature, but do when humans start to force interbreeding. But is genetic engineering good or is it bad? it just depends how it's applied. There are lots of scientists out there with good intentions, those who are trying to solve problems like food shortage and storage or Vaccines delivery systems. Then there are scientists who made glow in the dark cats. Why? who knows. It not something that's beneficial.

Have a look at this link. 12 bizarre examples of genetic engineering


https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&...1t3vibTd8jZ8AvPYg&sig2=7_cIWAlSlAOV8YZMUOHq8Q

 

[Anansi]

LOL Stephen... I wasn't so sure my dry humor on that would come across :52: Thank goodness for emoticons :52:

But honestly it would be interesting to know the answer!

Hahaha! It would've come across even without the emoticons, Julie. Delivery was spot on!

But, talking about questions and answers, what ever happened to our OP? Looks like he tossed a grenade into a crowded room and got scarce! Lol!

 

[Anansi]

Wow, Delfin. I thought you were just saying something bizarre to emphasize your point when you mentioned glow-in-the-dark cats! But it really has been done. The premise sounds like high comedy, but before you can laugh the reality of it hits you. Laugh, or weep. Mankind is kind of scary, huh?

And really?!? Less flatulent cows got funding as a project?!? I wish I could have been a fly on the wall when they were making THAT pitch!

 

[FreedomAndForgiven]

I don't think the egg would be fertile. The species are way beyond different. It wouldn't be like breeding hybrid Macaws. Females will lay eggs as someone else put it they're ready to be moms and/or really bonded with someone. We have a Military rescue that we have had since Feb. That has really bonded with me, and has started building nests now.

 

[Delfin]

Yeah Anansi. I can see the point with the cow producing less methane.

 

[Kiwibird]

And really?!? Less flatulent cows got funding as a project?!? I wish I could have been a fly on the wall when they were making THAT pitch!

Being large herbivores, cows produce more methane in their flatulence than most other animals. Under normal conditions, this would not be a problem, however due to factory farming (which causes a severe overpopulation of cows on the planet) they are actually right up there with cars and heavy industry as contributors of greenhouse gasses. Overpopulations of cows for human consumption are really causing problems, and instead of simply eating less meat, people would rather genetically engineered frankencows.

How Meat Contributes to Global Warming - Scientific American

 

[labell]

And really?!? Less flatulent cows got funding as a project?!? I wish I could have been a fly on the wall when they were making THAT pitch!

Being large herbivores, cows produce more methane in their flatulence than most other animals. Under normal conditions, this would not be a problem, however due to factory farming (which causes a severe overpopulation of cows on the planet) they are actually right up there with cars and heavy industry as contributors of greenhouse gasses. Overpopulations of cows for human consumption are really causing problems, and instead of simply eating less meat, people would rather genetically engineered frankencows.

How Meat Contributes to Global Warming - Scientific American

I don't push being a vegetarian it is a personal choice, my husband still eats meat. I do encourage people to eat WAY less meat! It is so much better for you and the planet to eat less meat. It would have a huge impact if people cut their meat consumption even by half.