Aggressive Conure! 9 Months, why?

[Kiwibon]

Hi again!! He's 11 months not 9... MISTAKE.

I adopted Poppy (Red belly) 3 or 4 months ago, when he was 7 months... and he and Lilly (pineapple) get along great! He's a lovely chatty, gentle bird.

Over the last week or two, Poppy has started to bite and puff his feathers and do a dancey dance and become aggressive towards me. I'm usually able to get him to step up but now he bites the hand when I try. He also rips food from my hand and drops it when I try to feed him or Lilly. Lilly on the other hand, has remained normal through this, and is probably confused.

Any ideas what this means? Is it the beginning or puberty or is he still too young? If you have any advice on how to handle this, I would really appreciate it!

Thank you in advance!

Side note: Lilly is such a vacant and shy bird... She doesn't play with toys or like being touched, she just sits there... is this normal? Poppy has brought her out a little bit though, she's done more since he arrived than in the 2 years we've had her lol.

 

[Kiwibon]

Me and my mum have decided that it's most probably hormones making him like this, but we're going to make an appointment with the vet just to make sure... but any other insight between now and then would be incredibly helpful. ❤

 

[GhostN1K]

I have a GCC that's 14 months old & I to am having the same problem. Out of the blue been trying to figure out what's going on but no luck. I hope someone is able to help you and me lol. Sorry to jack your post.

 

[EllenD]

Poppy does sound like he's going through his first hormonal rage (puberty), this will pass, but you need to put him on a Natural-Light Schedule, so that he wakes at sunrise and goes to sleep at sunset. And make sure he is getting 12 hours of sleep every night...

Question, are Poppy and Lilly DNA tested? Do they live together in the same cage? I'm asking this because if they are a male and a female and they are bonded and living together, they may very-well eventually start mating, which you don't want. So I would make sure that they each have their own cage, toys, food, etc. Their cages can sit beside each other and they can have supervised out-of-cage-time, but do not let them alone together if they are truly a male and a female...I'd have the vet DNA test them both while you're there, it's good to know this anyway, for egg-binding reasons...

I'm actually much more concerned about Lilly, as it's very, very odd for a Green Cheek to simply sit and do nothing all day, every day. They are high-energy little clowns that love to play, climb, swing, jump, fly, etc. Has Lilly had a wellness-exam with a Certified Avian Vet? Do you have an experienced, Certified Avian Vet (not an exotics vet)? I would be taking Lilly for a full Wellness-Exam including baseline-blood work if she's not yet had it done. It's a great thing to get done anyway, so you have results to compare to for future use, but it will show infection, kidney function, liver function, metabolic panel, etc. Both birds should have this done once a year with a Certified Avian Vet...It's just very odd that Lilly does nothing but sit there all day. Maybe that's just her personality, but it's not usual for a Green Cheek at all...

 

[EllenD]

Something that I forgot to add about Poppy's sudden aggression due to his hormones...If Poppy is in-fact a male (you never know, despite his stereotypical male "hormonal" behavior), and Lilly is in-fact a female (again, same thing), and since Lilly is already over the age of sexual maturity, if you have them housed together in the same cage and they are becoming very closely bonded to one another, this is also fueling Poppy's aggression towards you or anyone else that may come near him, Lilly, or their cage...Think of a hormone-crazed, teenage boy who is trying to protect his girlfriend, but is just acting like an ass...That's basically what Poppy is doing. So besides the fact that you don't want them to start mating/breeding, nor do you want Lilly to start laying eggs continuously, another reason to separate them is to ease Poppy's hormones which will stop his aggression towards you/people...

****Something else that you need to consider, and that every single bird owner who buys first a bird as a pet, and then later-on buys another bird of the same species and of the opposite sex as a second pet:

If your birds are in-fact of the opposite sex (which their behavior does very-much indicate, though you never know for sure without getting them both DNA tested, which you should do ASAP regardless of your issue), yes, it's natural for the male, especially since he's much younger than the female and is just-now going through puberty for the first time, to suddenly go from being a friendly, loving, cuddly little guy to a demon-bird in a split-second, and yes, when he is being housed or is in close, physical contact for most of the day with a female of the same species, this will definitely make his hormonal-aggression a million times worse...And yes, if they are housed together, and even if they are simply allowed to be out of their cages and be physically together a lot of the time, especially unsupervised, then this will eventually result in mating, which will make his aggression much, much worse, as well as result in the female laying eggs, which is VERY BAD FOR HER HEALTH, and unless you have bird-breeding and baby bird hand-raising/hand-feeding experience and education, there's another reason you don't want them to mate...HOWEVER....

****Something that most people are not aware of, nor do they quite understand and certainly don't expect, is that if their 2 birds of the same species and of the opposite sex do in-fact bond-closely with each other and do in-fact start mating with each other and develop a "Breeding-Pair" type of relationship with each other, OFTEN THE RESULT THAT HAPPENS AFTER THE OPPOSITE-SEX PAIR START MATING IS A TOTAL BREAK IN ANY BOND THAT EITHER OF THE BIRDS HAD WITH "THEIR PERSON", OR ANY PEOPLE IN-GENERAL...This isn't something that most people anticipate nor even think about having happen, and once it does they are not only shocked and confused, but it typically also breaks their heart...

Even in the case of Lilly, who you have had as your pet for years, it's very likely that she will lose any bond that she already has with you or anyone in your home if she and Poppy start mating...If they are already close enough that Poppy is showing extreme hormonal aggression towards people trying to touch him, the cage, her, etc., then the next step in this process is typically that the pair start mating...And once that happens, I'd bet at least 90% or more of the time, both birds break any and all bonds that they had with any person or people...This is exactly why "Breeding-Pairs" are advertised for sale as "Breeding-Pairs", and the ads usually say "Not pets"...Even when just a single bird that has been a part of a breeding pair is being sold by itself (usually because it's mate has died), the ad will say something like "Part of a former breeding-pair, not a pet", followed by "Will require someone with the time and patience to work with him to try to tame him again, like he was before he became a breeder"...

Birds are not at all like dogs, cats, rabbits, ferrets, reptiles, etc. They are just like people in a lot of respects, and this is one of them...Where as you can take your male dog to the home of a female dog who is in-heat and that he's never met or seen before, leave the two dogs alone in a room for a while, and typically they will just mate and then separate, and your dog will just get in the car with you and come home, and he'll be the same cuddly, loving dog he was prior to mating with the female dog, BIRDS MUST FIRST FORM A RELATIONSHIP BEFORE EVEN CONSIDERING MATING...We here on this forum are constantly telling people that they can't just put two birds of the same species and the opposite sex together in a cage and expect them to eventually, or ever mate/breed...*****There is a post just like this RIGHT NOW in either the Conure Forum or the Breeding/Hand-Raising Forum that is titled "Why Won't My Green Cheek Conures Breed?", with a totally inexperienced OP who had a female Green Cheek Conure for I believe 3 years, DNA tested female, and who a year and a half ago went to a breeder and bought a male Green Cheek Conure, DNA tested male, who was a member of a prior breeding-pair and was a "proven-breeder" (his mate died I believe, so the breeder was selling him)...This breeder was totally shady and unscrupulous, as many unfortunately are, and they told the OP that this male "would absolutely breed with his female, no problem, it will definitely happen by the end of the year"...Now there is no way at all to know whether any two birds you put together will bond at all...They may absolutely hate each other and must be kept separated at all times for fear of violence, they may not like each other much at all but simply will tolerate each other and are not aggressive, but that's it, they may really like each other a lot but will not closely-bond with each other in the sense that they will mate/breed as they show no hormonal aggression or behavior towards each other or anyone else, they're just "good friends" basically, or they may love each other very much, bond very closely together, and mate/breed...But there was no way for this breeder to know this, they lied to this OP in order to get rid of a single male Green Cheek who's mate died, and who they knew would most-likely never closely-bond or mate with another female and was no use to them...So this OP was asking "What is wrong with my birds? They've been together, living together in the same cage for a year and a half, they like each other and play with each other, but they aren't even close to mating. They have a nest-box, and the male is a proven-breeder...What's wrong?"...Unfortunately we had to tell him that nothing is "wrong", he's not done anything "wrong", he just has a pair of Green Cheeks that are "friends" but that do not want to mate, and at this point if they haven't shown any hormonal behavior towards each other at all, they most likely won't ever...So that OP has the opposite problem that you are having, lol...

I'll continue below and wrap this up very quickly, but since this is a topic that keeps popping-up on here recently over and over again, I'd rather give a long, detailed explanation for people to read if they want to, if not then that's fine too, but at least it's here...It's a topic that a lot of people do not understand and that they aren't at all aware of...

 

[EllenD]

Okay, last little bit and I'll shut-up and go away, lol...

Here's where I'm going with my rambling (though I am trying to educate you a bit): From what I can tell you are not wanting to breed your birds, nor should you if you have no breeding or hand-raising/hand-feeding education, experience, etc. I think that you just want to have 2 Green Cheeks who are loving, friendly pets and members of your family that you can easily handle, play with, and love...If I'm wrong, please correct me, but I don't think that I am...Even if your birds haven't been DNA tested, it does seem, based on their behavior, that you do have a male/female pair of birds...Your female is well past puberty and is of the age of sexual maturity, and your male, being around a year -old, is right now going through puberty, so he-too is of the age of sexual maturity...And based on what you have described as far as his sudden, recent behavior (that is the reason for your post and that you want him to stop) he and your female are getting along fine, and at least he is already very attached to your female. And this is the source of your first problem, the male's sudden, hormonal aggression...but it also may be the cause of more serious issues to come, and this is why you need to be sure that your birds are HOUSED SEPARATELY, EACH HAS THEIR OWN CAGE, THEIR OWN TOYS, THEIR OWN FOOD AND WATER DISHES, ETC. I don't know if that's the case already, but if not then you need to get this done ASAP...They can have their cages in the same room so they can see each other and talk to each other, but they should not be housed together, nor should you allow them to be out of their cages together alone...Only when they are both with you and being supervised...

And this is for two different reasons: #1) This will help to curb the male's hormonal aggression, as once he is no-longer housed with the female nor allowed to be in direct, physical contact with the female alone, or for long periods of time without you or another person being with them at all times, then the male will start to realize that mating with her is not going to happen. This will cool him down, and you should see a drastic change in his behavior pretty directly...Now hormones are hormones, and he is going to go through this once every year, for about a month or so, but the first time they go through this, or when puberty happens, it's much, much worse than any time in the future. But in this case, not only is he going through puberty, but he's also go a sexually-mature female that he is starting to bond closely with and who is sending his hormones through the roof, and not only that, he's protecting her, he's protecting his cage or their cage, etc. So that's the first reason that they must live alone, in their own cages, with their own possessions, and only be allowed out together WITH YOU and under direct supervision...

#2) The other reason that they need to be each in their own cage with their own possessions, and only allowed to be in direct, physical contact out of their cages when they are both WITH YOU and supervised is because if they are housed together and they are allowed to be out of their cages together for long periods of time every day, their bond is going to quickly escalate into a mating/breeding situation, which will not only result in eggs and baby birds, but more importantly it will very likely result in you losing any relationship that you have with either of them. Once they bond that closely to each other, they no longer want to have much at all to do with any humans, regardless of how close they may have been with you prior...And this makes sense if you think about it, of course they would rather have a very close, strong bond with one of their own species rather than with a person, wouldn't you? That's how they think, very much like a person...I've seen many people who had one pet bird they were extremely closely bonded with, and they decided that they either wanted to get a "friend" for their bird so they wouldn't be lonely, or they actually decided that they wanted to breed their bird, not knowing or understanding how that works with birds...Either way, they have gone out and purchased a bird of the same species and of the opposite sex, put them in the same cage together and allowed them to be out of the cage together all day long, every day...and if the two birds did in-fact bond that closely with one another, they started mating...and they also started being extremely aggressive and even violent with their former "person", and they had no idea why their birds suddenly "hated them"...and that's why...

 

[Kiwibon]

Thank you so so so so so much for the in depth reply!

Lilly is perfectly healthy... she's just a little different I guess! Haha, her breeder was an amateur apparently so she wasn't taught much and wasn't handled. Since Poppy arrived, she's tested out toys a little after seeing him play with them... which is kinda cute. She likes to tug rope and ring her bells... but wont touch the actual toys LOL.

Onto Poppy... Thank you for the insight on his behavior!! I'm still getting him checked anyway. The vet is an avian vet, so I'm sure he'll be in good hands. and he'll get over his mood swings eventually.

About their caging... they are sharing a cage. Although they spend 6 hours a day separated. They eat breakfast together in their own bowls on opposite sides of the cage... Lilly comes out for 3 hours and then I switch Poppy out for another 3. Then they go to bed together at 5-6pm for 12 hours.

Do you think this is an acceptable arrangement? Or is it still a definite no no? I work from home so I'm lucky enough to have all of this time with the babies.

Thanks again for your awesome response!! ❤

 

[EllenD]

I would not have them living in the same cage...It's awesome that you work from home and can provide them with so much out-of-cage-time, and that's totally fine as long as they are supervised...However, if they are living in the same cage and they are becoming so closely-bonded, they will no-doubt start mating/breeding soon, as Lilly is already of-age and Poppy is now as well, and as he is now being so hormonal, they may very-well already have started mating without you even knowing...

Now I don't know if you bought them to specifically breed, that's your choice obviously, but obviously if you did not want to breed them then you must separate them cage-wise ASAP, because it may very well have already happened...And if you did intend to breed them, then I hope that you've done a ton of homework, have already purchased everything that you need to have prior to allowing them mate, such as a Brooder, hand-feeding formula, cooking thermometer, syringes, etc. (even if you are intending on the babies being "parent-raised" and you do not want to hand-raise/hand-feed them, you still must be completely ready to have to remove them from the parents at any time and take-over hand-feeding and housing them, as parents often reject babies, kick them out of the nest, and even often start physically hurting and injuring them)...

So without knowing your intentions as far as the breeding goes, I can't really give you very good advice, except to say that besides having baby birds to have to care for, and having to literally study on how to properly house babies, hand-feed babies without aspirating them, overfeeding them, underfeeding them, etc., the other part of this whole mating thing you have to take into consideration is the effect that it may have on both of the birds, and then also on their relationship with you...Sure, if they start mating you can simply remove the eggs from the nest as she lays them, freeze them overnight or boil them, then put them back in the nest and allow her to continue to sit on them until she realizes they aren't going to hatch and gets bored with them, then you can throw them out...The problem is that mating itself tends to cause female birds to start continuously lay egg after egg after egg, some more than other, which is extremely unhealthy for your female. There's the risk of her becoming Egg-Bound, which requires immediate medical intervention to prevent suffering and death. Then there is the Calcium deficiency issue, which you actually have to anticipate once they do start mating, and put your female on a high-calcium diet, complete with Mineral Block, CuttleBone, and then adding something like Egg-Food to her normal, daily diet to prevent her body from leeching about 8-10% of the calcium from her bones in order to make a single egg-shell...Some females have a real issue with laying tons and eggs over and over again, some don't. Then there is the hormonal aggression that can get even worse with both of them if they start mating...And of course, there is the chance that they both become so closely-bonded with one another that they completely "un-bond" with you, and you lose any kind of relationship with both of them...

So if I were you, unless you fully-intended to breed them and are all set-up and ready to go for that, and you are okay with the possibility that they may simply become a "breeding-pair" instead of pets that you interact with, I would buy a second cage, toys, dishes, etc. ASAP, so that each of them has their own cage, and put their two cages side-by-side so that they can see each other and talk/entertain each other when they are inside them during the day and at night to sleep, and then continue to allow them to be together outside of their cages during the day, but only while you're supervising them, so that you can stop them from mating if they start...(a friend of mine didn't want her two Green Cheeks to mate, she feared losing them as very close, cuddly, loving little pets, so she got them both their own cages, and she let them out together when she was home to supervise, and those two would start mating every chance they got...she'd let them out and immediately they'd start mating on the playstand, the floor, the windowsill, everywhere! I was there one day for a cookout, and she let them out and asked me if I would watch them while she was outside with the grill...So I had them each on my hands, one on the right, one on the left, and didn't they fly over and land on the kitchen counter of all places, as soon as she walked outside, like they knew she was gone and couldn't see them...and immediately started mating right on the kitchen counter where she had food laid out and was cooking!)...

Anyway, that's what I would do if you never intended on breeding them, as there are too many things that can go wrong, and most of all, I'd hate to see them turn into a hands-off, breeding-pair of Conures that don't like human interaction, as often happens. But this is obviously your choice...just keep in-mind that it's very likely to start happening very soon if they live in the same cage, if it hasn't started already....