Am I Being Selfish?

[Chloe1995]

I've just joined this community, so hi everyone!

The situation:
I have a CAG, he (not DNA tested) is nearly 12 months old. We've had him for 6 months. His name is Loki (and boy does he live up to that name).

For years I pined for a bird, only after setting up my own business, thus working from home was I able to convince my partner it was time! After researching, we decided on a CAG. Loki (the bird) is healthy and happy.. but there is a problem.

He so obviously prefers my partner to me. He's begun to attack me if I try to get him out of his cage, he will go instantly to my partner, doesn't want to know me much (occasionally I'll be asked for a head scratch which always gives me hope).
In the evenings he will always sit on my partner's lap for fuss and if my partner puts him onto my knee for me to try give him some love he grumbles and tries to get back to my partner. I am trying everything to get him to favour me as much as he does my partner. I use a perch to get him out of his cage (avoiding bloodshed), I make myself super interesting - I'm the treat and toy bearer and I always sing to him.. I spend ALL day in the same room as him (forgot to mention that my partner still works so he is away in the day). I've been doing this for about a month and I'm not seeing improvement yet (I have been told it could take a year?)

My dark thoughts

Disclaimer:
Loki will always have a home with us. I'm not the sort of person to ever re-home because of something like this. I will continue to try to bond with him forever if needs be. Plus my "bird-magnet" boyfriend loves him to bits and always will.

However.. I feel empty, I wanted to add a bird to my family for absolutely years and this situation is not fulfilling in the slightest for me (I feel really selfish saying that). I have a bird I cannot touch, cannot trust and who obviously doesn't enjoy me that much. I've spoken to countless bird people, some have given me a very bleak outlook and said that Loki has made a choice and I can't change it. Others claim it is a phase (yay), and some say that when he reaches sexual maturity he's likely to swap allegiance to me (yay but not for my boyfriend).

So here goes... I've been thinking of adding another bird (eyerolling at myself right now), maybe in 6 months time or so if things haven't improved? Is this a terrible idea? I was thinking a conure or a Quaker (trying to work out which would be less nippy in general). What if my partner really is a bird magnet and they both prefer him? lol. We will have the space for another cage once the kitchen is finished, but I reckon my boyfriend will be pretty pee'd off (initially anyway) if I suggest getting another bird.. I will of course continue trying to bond with Loki, I love him despite that feeling one-way.

I feel really selfish writing this because I was brought up to appreciate the relationships that I have. And I do. I just want a strong bird bond so bad.

Anyone else experienced this? What did you do? Is adding another bird a bad move?

 

[munami]

Hello Chloe! I am in no means a bird expert in the least but I figure more opinions would help just in general!

The short version, I don't think you're being selfish.
There's a certain bond you wanted to create and you've put so much effort into creating it yet it isn't working.
However, a month isn't a very long time in the grand scheme of things. CAGs live a longgg time.

It's like making a new friend. Sometimes you have friends that you instantly feel a rapport with, but in the long run, the ones that stick with you are going to be the ones you should hold onto. True trust takes a long time to build.

It might be my perception of what you've written, but are you forcing him to come out of the cage or are you letting him come out himself? When you're in the same room as him during the day, what is he doing?

Another thing to consider, how will Loki and a new bird get along? Conures can be feisty sure, but they are smaller than CAGs. What happens if the two of them don't get along? How willl Loki react if the new bird does take to your partner?

It might be best to start training Loki when your partner is away. That way you two can have a safe and fun bonding experience.

 

[chris-md]

Greetings and welcome to the community!

I really sympathize with you, truly do. We always caution people here that THIS exact situation is simply a risk you run. African greys are renowned for being one person birds. How their distaste of “others” manifests varies from bird to bird, with some still tolerating handling by almost anyone to outright aggression. When the one who pushes for birds becomes the OTHER, it can wrench the heart.

Your key here is socipization. Frequent socialization. Take the bird places (get a pak o bird), let him meet new people. With greys you have to work hard to expand their horizons, they are naturally more phobic of a bird than others.

Your bird is young yet, so you still have time. If this bird were 20 years old and the same, then I would be more concerned.

Socialize socialize socialize!

Second bird? That is totally up to you. Whether or not you should get a second bird depends on your answer to the following questions: do you have the space for a second bird? Do you have the TIME for a second bird? Do you have the love to give for a second bird? Are you prepared to handle the stress if and when the two birds don’t get along?

2 birds is 3 times the mess of one bird, and 3 times the time commitment of one bird. Like how that math works out, 2=3? It’s totally true.

I certainly wish you luck, hang around, we’ve got a very healthy grey community here to support you in all aspects of what you are going through.

 

[saxguy64]

Hi there, and welcome!

I understand what you're feeling. My first Amazon, Cuckoo, was my boy. Like yourself, I wanted a parrot for years before I was ready for the commitment. I was the one who could handle him, I was his caregiver, I was the source of all things good, but in spite of that, he still preferred my wife, who was not a bird person. It's almost a feeling of betrayal. My advice... Don't take it that way. It's really not. You'll find lots of members here in the same situation. Many who adore their fids, and still can not really hold, pet, or handle at all. Many that work patiently and consistently for years to reach small goals. We still love them for who they are, and their unique personalities, and would do anything for them.

Loki is still very much a baby, and as such, things change- a lot. Six months in CAG land is not a long time by any stretch of the imagination. Don't get frustrated, and just move at his pace. Pushing for things to happen when he's not up for it tends to be counter productive, and he will definitely read your frustration. They're painfully smart, and observe EVERYTHING you do. There's lots of great information here regarding building trust and bonding. Hugely helpful for many of us.

Read, read, read some more, and learn. I don't imagine there's anyone here that believes they know everything there is to know about their birds, especially given the unique personalities even among the same species. They're ALL different.

You have quite a while before puberty hits, and when it does, expect changes... Good, bad, or totally unexpected behavior and attitude changes. Some change very little at all, while others can become a completely different bird. It can often be a trying time for parronts, but it will pass. Only after that do you really get to know what his longer-term personality and preferences will be. Look at it as the very long term relationship that it is. Praise and celebrate the little gains, and don't sweat the other stuff. I promise, it's worth it.

Also... We love pictures here.

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[Chloe1995]

Hi munami, thanks for the reassurance there. When getting him to come out I bribe him I use the perch instead of my hand, and in my other hand I hold a treat. He bites the perch (luckily its not my hand) then he agrees and steps up for his treat. I always train him when my partner is away because its the only time he will even look twice at me lol.


Hi chris-md, thank you for giving me some hope there in regards to his age. I had heard that Greys tend to be one-person birds but then again, as with all things, a lot of people told me its a 'myth' and if you both put in equal effort they will love you both the same... shouldn't have listened! lol. In regards to the possible second fid.. Do you think that a quaker would be a better idea? I am nervous about the second bird being jealous / loki being jealous and partially about them not getting on. For the latter I could keep them separate (when they're both out) but I have no experience of owning multiple birds. I would 100% have the time to put in but I don't want to add another unless I think Loki isn't going to come around.


saxguy64: Hi and thank you for the reply. Makes me feel comforted knowing other people also experience these things. Do you think its possible he is maturing early? because he does the head-bobbing thing at my boyfriend and he's acting up with me.... At what point would I know if he has 'chosen' my partner, is there like a definitive age? I hear they choose a "mate" for life at like 5 years old? P.S I've uploaded an image here (wouldn't let me embed it for some reason): https://ibb.co/cYbfQ9c

 

[noodles123]

A second bird is never a good idea if you are struggling with the first.
A) They may HATE eachother; B) The 2nd bird may hate you, C) There is a ton of extra time and money and jealousy potential when you get a second bird. Only ever get a second bird with the understanding that your current bird (or the new bird) could battle to the death (seriously...)--and neither are guaranteed to like anyone. I definitely wouldn't get a new bird because you think your current bird didn't bond to you...It hasn't been long enough for you to even make that call...AT ALL...and, birds are birds (I know you have an idea of what you want, but there is no way to be certain that you will find that in another bird)...All parrots require a lot of patience. If you are feeling down, watch Game of Thrones and it will give you an idea of the way that allegiances can change over time lol.

My thought is, if your current bird had bonded with you in the way you had hoped, would you be considering a 2nd bird? If not, then I would advise against adopting another.

Getting a 2nd bird won't help the current situation and there is no guarantee that your new bird won't bond to someone else as well...Just think long and hard. If you are up for being a life-time custodian to 2 potentially aggressive "siblings" (with the risk of mating as well), then perhaps...but if you are doing this with the idea that there will be a "his and hers" bird, then you will likely regret that decision. I know people who cannot allow their birds out together at the same time and there are numerous stories about birds who seemed to get along and then suddenly, one amputated the other bird's toe etc.

I'm curious about your partner's interactions with the bird--I know your bird is probably too young to be sexually mature, but there still should be some parameters on the interaction (in preparation for the future)--and just like kids, hormones start before puberty....You don't want to scold for regurgitation or sexual behavior etc, but you certainly should ignore it and change the subject when it happens (an create a bit of distance in some cases). I hope he is only petting your bird on the head and that there is no access to dark or shadowy spaces in/around the cage (blankets, pillows, bedding, huts, low ledges, under furniture etc). Even though your bird is young, it sounds like your partner may be over-cuddling/ over-attending etc....That is just my take on it....I know they are often known as one-person birds, but still, your partner's behavior could be amplifying your bird's disinterest in you...I would advise your partner to back off a bit and make their relationship a bit less touchy-feely...

 

[munami]

That's great to hear you're already working with him.


Next time, just try opening the cage door and just letting him come out on his own before starting to work with Loki.

I can potentially see a problem with him biting before he steps up in the future as well. Take a step back and try to get him just comfortable being a certain distance from you and the perch.

 

[LeaKP]

Oh greys are so enigmatic. They’re super intelligent and perceptive.

My Kevin is somewhere between 3-5 yrs old and spent most of his life in his cage. Getting him to come out and play has been a journey. He has calmed down, allows beak rubs and will even play. He’s now dancing to music and accepts treats from all of us.

Kevin is the most difficult rehab I’ve ever done but the gains have been worth it. I can’t wait for the day when he is fully unguarded. We will make it! The deal with greys is to be as persistent and even more so than they are.

I suggest you read birdman666 threads on greys (can a moderator find them?). If you can persist and be patient your grey will becomes a family bird instead of a one person bird. It’s well worth it, greys are amazing. Your bird is still very young and now hormones play a role, it won’t last forever!

That being said, if a bird ever came across my path that clicked with me I wouldn’t hesitate to take another. But I would be very picky and not expect the new one to get along with Kevin.

That’s enough of my rambling on, there’s so much good advice here!


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[saxguy64]

Well stated by Noodles. Has he matured enough to start producing hormones?.. possibly. Has he already passed puberty?... I would venture to say, not a chance in the world. It's absolutely way too soon to be able to know where his allegiance will be as he grows up. At one year old, he is in every sense of the word, a baby. Just like human babies, they have constantly changing opinions, likes, and dislikes, and yes, will sometimes throw tantrums. How you respond to his behaviors is super important in your ongoing relationship/bond with him. Time will tell, so extreme patience is your friend. Again, it's worth it, I promise, and BTW, thanks for the pic, he's beautiful!

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[Betrisher]

G'day and welcome, Chloe1995!

As you've already read, you're absolutely not alone. Birds are like people when it comes to choosing friends and they have their preferences. We can never predict which half of a partnership a bird will bond with and it depends on factors known only to the bird.

If you feel like getting another bird, get one! Goodness, plenty of us have multiple birds and enjoy owning and training them. Why shouldn't you? Only, as you said, it's possible (although not necessarily probable) that a second bird might also prefer your partner. Mind you, having said that, the fact that bird #1 'owns' him might preclude bird #2 from laying claim. The addition of a second bird might encourage the first to expand its interest in you?

When I inherited my Dad's Galah, he *hated* me (the Galah, not my Dad). After months of work and treats and singing and scratching, I eventually got Dominic to tolerate me, but that was as far as I ever got. For the next eighteen years, he loathed and despised me yet cuddled up like a little stuffed toy for the men in the family. Oh well. That didn't stop me from loving him and continuing to care for him anyway. Every little bit of progress he made gave me great pleasure, even the fact that he had built good relationships with my husband and son. We lost Dom this year and my heart will always have a Dommie-shaped hole in it.

Recently, I adopted a Corella (name of Miss Rosetta Stone). *This* bird is madly in love with *me* and will not tolerate anyone else within coo-ee of her cage! See? Y'just never know whom a bird will attach itself to. All that matters, really, is that the bird is fed and cared for properly and given plenty of stimulation and play opportunities. You already know from owning your CAG how much responsibility it takes to own a bird. It's not that much more to own two.

What can make all the difference is daily training and socialisation. If you work for ten minutes each day, concentrating on perching, 'step up', targetting etc, your bird will develop a relationship with you. It may still prefer your partner for cuddles, but it will pay attention to you and comply with your requests if you teach it to.

 

[AmyMyBlueFront]

Hi Chloe!! Welcome to the best parrot forum in the world!!

Looking at his/her picture,it is very easy to she he/she is still a youngster! As a Grey mature,their eyes change color..from a dark grey color to a bright yellow. Your guy/gal is still obviously a youngster!

I always loved birds. It started with the wild ones as a young boy..ten or eleven years old. I was thirteen when my neighbor brought over to me a days old English Sparrow. My grandparents had "Pretty Boy",a very charming light blue/white/grey budgie. I would BEG my mom to let me stay with Gramma and Gramps on a Friday night,just so I could try to tame Pretty Boy. Within a couple Friday/Saturday he was stepping up to my GP's and myself! They were so happy,and so was Pretty Boy,helping himself to gramma's lunch,or trying/taking a bath in Gramps cereal bowl in the morning lol

Anyway I carried a torch for these magnificent creature to this day! My first "real parrot" was Smokey,a TAG. I had no clue what to expect. Later found out Smokes was a "wild caught" about six months old. She NEVER liked hands! would run from them,would bite the hand that fed her so to speak lol.Would GROWEL like a pack of wild dogs if trying to get her to step up.

After about 1.5 years she started to come around. She would begrudgently step-up if there wasn't any other option,then try to fly away as soon as she had a chance. Didn't get far because I kept the sleeves on her arms short just so she COULDN'T fly.

Then along comes Amy! A friend of mine had Apollo,a Blue Fronted Amazon. I never considered an Amazon to be any special,they were just "green" parrots! The day I met Apollo my beliefs were changed for the resat of my life. I read EVERYTHING I could find about BF's! Subscribed to "Bird Talk".
So one Saturday afternoon,I read in an add in the back of the latest BT mag guy not too far from me,was selling "young/baby" BF's and I went to pay a visit. Amy turned twenty-nine years young this January! He was just four months old when he picked ME to go home with!

Smokey HATED Amy from the get go! Smokes was an "only" bird!! How DARE you come and try to steal my humans!!!
If both were out at the same time Smokey would sneak up on Amy,pull Amys' tail until Amy screamed,then RUN back to HER house,laughing all the way! One time I thought Smokey came to her senses. Me watching VERY carefully,Snokey walked up to Amy,making kiss-kiss sounds..I thought after five or so years She accepted Amy. They went beak to beak and all of a sudden poor Amy made a blood-curdling cry! Smokey BIT Amys' TONGUE!! requiring five stitches!

So I guess I'm trying to say...you wont have ANY idea how your CAG will react with another bird in the family.


Jim

 

[GaleriaGila]

Hello, and welcome! You sound like our kind of folks, for sure.
I'm glad you're getting great advice and support already.

 

[Squeekmouse]

My husband and I have had VERY similar challenges with our CAG Trigger, except in reverse. Trigger chose me, but he was supposed to be "His" fid. Here's the thread from when I got a lot of great suggestions:
Need some advice about Trigger

Nutshell:
You should be the only one to offer treats and be the one to feed him.
Move slowly (literally and figuratively), let Loki set the pace.
Your BF needs to be 100% devoted to helping YOU build a bond with Loki, it will take both of you. As hard as it will be for him, don't let him OVER-snuggle Loki. Believe me, I know its hard to resist, but it's important.

Over the course of many days/weeks/months:
While your BF is holding and petting Loki, he should move closer and closer to you. You want to get to the point where you can add your hands to his as he scritches/pets Loki.
Eventually transition to you doing the scritching as he holds Loki.
Final step is transitioning Loki in your hands completely.
Your BF should praise Loki and tell him what a good boy he is when he is tolerant of your attentions, HE needs to let Loki know that your BF WANTS Loki to love you too.

If/when Loki bites you, don't let him reward Loki by taking him away from you. That will teach him to bite you so he can go back to being with your BF alone. An attack on you should be treated as an attack on your BF.

Helpful threads:

Tips for Bonding and Building Trust
Bond forming


Now, as for getting a second bird, sure by all means! But don't give up on Loki. No matter how many fids you two have, you want all of your fids to love all of you and vice versa, right? Do NOT try to have His and Hers fids, thats just not fair to the fids.

We have a Green cheek conure and our CAG. In retrospect, probably a bad idea. Too big a size difference. It's a real danger because they don't care much for each other and Trigger could easily kill or maim Yoda before we could blink. Keep that in mind, expect that they will NOT get along and prepare for the worst... then hope and work for the best. Feeding and cleaning up after a second bird is not that much harder than just one... but finding time and energy to love and train two birds is more than twice as hard. Especially if they don't get along.

Whatever you choose, we'll all be here to help and cheer you on.

Good luck!!!

BTW he's beautiful!!!!

 

[Ellie777Australia]

Welcome Chloe1995,


You have indeed joined the appropriate forum for advice and emotional support. They (this community) are awesome peoples...


Loki is lovely and looks a bit 'cheeky'.... Our Ellie is 'very cheeky' and very clever as well.



All the best as you implement the great advice already posted.


Debbie