Breathing Issues?

[Scott]

Had more samples taken at the vet today (blood and fecal) and he said the lungs don’t sound as severe as they would with a fungal infection, so his guess is bacterial. He gave him a shot and sent us home with a prescription. I should get test results on Monday.

Seems a reasonable broad-brush effort pending test results. If bacterial, should respond to antibiotics. If it turns out to be fungal, powerful meds are available but with longer course of treatment. Thanks for the update, let us know if you have difficulty giving meds. (various tricks including baby food and room temperature cooked cereals are helpful)

 

[Tinkgrrrbell]

They just called me with his results, which were 100 gram negative for pathogen. They asked me to keep giving him the medicine they supplied and to return to retest him in a week. Does anyone have more insight into what the causes of this test result could be? I tried asking questions on the phone, but her response was that “it should be zero and it’s 100.”

 

[noodles123]

Gram negative bacteria =a class/ group of bacteria-- it means he has an infection of a certain type (e.g., e.coli, chlamydia etc etc) and they are counting it in his sample (there are other harmful bacteria that are gram positive, but his class is gram negative). Gram negative bacteria are not good to have in their systems (neither are some gram positive bacteria--just depends).
It sounds like the infection has progressed for a bit. That having been said, if they looked at it and know what it is, I am hoping the antibiotic will kill it...It should- in theory.

Can they not perform a same-day fecal gram-stain at your vet?
Was this result obtained from blood of a fecal sample?
I ask because in the past, my vets (even the crappy ones) have obtained this information from a fecal sample.Even the exotics vets I have visited (which are not ideal when compared to avian specialists) have been able to perform a fecal gram-stain same-day within 15 - 20 minutes of sample drop-off...I am just wondering what they analyzed, because if it was poop and they made you wait more than an hour, that is strange...Now, if it was something else more complicated, that is a different story...I would just figure out what they examined so that you know whether or not to find a new vet, because a run-of-the-mill gram-stain should NEVER take a long time.

*if you are ever sharing spit or food from which you have already eaten, stop-- saliva is a common source of gram negative bacteria in birds, but certainly not the only source).

 

[Tinkgrrrbell]

Gram negative bacteria =a class/ group of bacteria-- it means he has an infection of a certain type (e.g., e.coli, chlamydia etc etc) and they are counting it in his sample (there are other harmful bacteria that are gram positive, but his class is gram negative). Gram negative bacteria are not good to have in their systems (neither are some gram positive bacteria--just depends).
It sounds like the infection has progressed for a bit. That having been said, if they looked at it and know what it is, I am hoping the antibiotic will kill it...It should- in theory.

Can they not perform a same-day fecal gram-stain at your vet?
Was this result obtained from blood of a fecal sample?
I ask because in the past, my vets (even the crappy ones) have obtained this information from a fecal sample.Even the exotics vets I have visited (which are not ideal when compared to avian specialists) have been able to perform a fecal gram-stain same-day within 15 - 20 minutes of sample drop-off...I am just wondering what they analyzed, because if it was poop and they made you wait more than an hour, that is strange...Now, if it was something else more complicated, that is a different story...I would just figure out what they examined so that you know whether or not to find a new vet, because a run-of-the-mill gram-stain should NEVER take a long time.

*if you are ever sharing spit or food from which you have already eaten, stop-- saliva is a common source of gram negative bacteria in birds, but certainly not the only source).

Hi. They did both blood and fecal samples. I’m not sure why it took until Monday for results. I do know that they were packed and I was fit in between two appointments as a curtesy.

They have him on Baytril.

I do share food and drinks with him, and will stop doing this immediately. I had no idea. Thank you for sharing this info with me.

 

[noodles123]

Gram negative bacteria =a class/ group of bacteria-- it means he has an infection of a certain type (e.g., e.coli, chlamydia etc etc) and they are counting it in his sample (there are other harmful bacteria that are gram positive, but his class is gram negative). Gram negative bacteria are not good to have in their systems (neither are some gram positive bacteria--just depends).
It sounds like the infection has progressed for a bit. That having been said, if they looked at it and know what it is, I am hoping the antibiotic will kill it...It should- in theory.

Can they not perform a same-day fecal gram-stain at your vet?
Was this result obtained from blood of a fecal sample?
I ask because in the past, my vets (even the crappy ones) have obtained this information from a fecal sample.Even the exotics vets I have visited (which are not ideal when compared to avian specialists) have been able to perform a fecal gram-stain same-day within 15 - 20 minutes of sample drop-off...I am just wondering what they analyzed, because if it was poop and they made you wait more than an hour, that is strange...Now, if it was something else more complicated, that is a different story...I would just figure out what they examined so that you know whether or not to find a new vet, because a run-of-the-mill gram-stain should NEVER take a long time.

*if you are ever sharing spit or food from which you have already eaten, stop-- saliva is a common source of gram negative bacteria in birds, but certainly not the only source).

Hi. They did both blood and fecal samples. I’m not sure why it took until Monday for results. I do know that they were packed and I was fit in between two appointments as a curtesy.

They have him on Baytril.

I do share food and drinks with him, and will stop doing this immediately. I had no idea. Thank you for sharing this info with me.

Well, it's good you caught it! Keep us updated. Lots of people don't know about the saliva thing, so you aren't alone (but it's a legit issue that gets overlooked by many). Here is one source- https://birdtricksstore.com/blogs/birdtricks-blog/saliva-is-dangerous-for-parrots
and another https://www.queenslanderaviaries.co...ram-negative,your bird could become dangerous. I never let my bird eat after me or anything and she has still had a gram-negative infection before (if that makes you feel any better) but definitely don't continue swapping spit.- like I said, it is one of the main causes, but not the only cause. Also- there are more "academic" sources out there that explain the same thing about saliva, but I just posted those 2 because they are more user-friendly (you can find the others if you look for them though).

 

[Tinkgrrrbell]

Had more samples taken at the vet today (blood and fecal) and he said the lungs don’t sound as severe as they would with a fungal infection, so his guess is bacterial. He gave him a shot and sent us home with a prescription. I should get test results on Monday.

Seems a reasonable broad-brush effort pending test results. If bacterial, should respond to antibiotics. If it turns out to be fungal, powerful meds are available but with longer course of treatment. Thanks for the update, let us know if you have difficulty giving meds. (various tricks including baby food and room temperature cooked cereals are helpful)

It’s proving to be a bit difficult to give him meds. Usually I can hold him and do it, but he is in a very bad mood and biting the crap out of me. With the baby food, is it just a matter of mixing the meds in with a small drop of the food? Any tricks/advice are greatly appreciated!!

 

[noodles123]

You want to make sure he def likes whatever you mix it with and then keep track of how much you put in (I wouldn't do the whole dose at a time unless you think he won't notice and is quite hungry). You still have to give the whole dose each day, but you have to track it in increments in case he throws part of it down-- you will have to get that replaced down the road (as you will need to use the meds you have to replace it at the time). It's very important to dose antibiotics correctly and always finish the course completely.


Plain baked sweet potatoes (eyes and skin removed) can work --roll into a ball and kind of mix meds in with them and (as you suggested) baby food, can also work. (healthy)

Oatmeal (plain) cooked with a mashed banana and some other fruit can work as well. (healthy)

The color of the meds can be huge to them, so whatever the color is, try to find something that can serve as a camo for it (without harming them)..obviously no artificial sweeteners, no avocado, chocolate, caffeine, garlic, onion etc...but a TINY bit of sugar or salt can be okay in moderation---they key is TINY- My bird is also a lot larger (umbrella cockatoo), and I broke her halves into 4ths in case she wasted them...you might need to do even less...and remember, sugar can feed a bacterial infection, so consult your vet.


Riskier/ Unhealthy option #1 (use at your own risk): I had some decent luck using mini Nilla wafers (cut in 1/2s with each side soaked in antibiotic and then sandwiched together like a PB & J lol---certainly not the healthiest option, but if you need to get it into him, you may have to get "safely" inventive. This was back when I was giving mine meds for months for multiple issues and HAD to give them to her...or she would have died. These are far from ideal, but she did survive--- ask a professional though because your bird may be in a worse state or too tiny to do this safely---just depends.


Riskier/ Unhealthy option #2 (again, use at your own risk):
I have also used small segments of reduced sodium Alexia brand sweet-potato fries in the past--- they are organic and low enough in salt if you are only giving them a very small portion of the fry (in theory, anyway)...plus, they are baked ....But still, you don't want to give t multiple fries...think, 1/4 of a fry or so (maybe less depending on the size of your bird)...cut it down the middle when warm--inject it, smush it back together and then cross your fingers (again- probably should not use a whole dose, depending on the size of the bird, but try to keep food content as low as possible and dose as high as possible without your bird rejecting it- they need to eat it all, unless you know exactly how much of the med was wasted). Again- this was what I used when I was desperate-- definitely consult your vet and use healthier options BEFORE resorting to things like this...I normally wouldn't suggest it, but I have a very picky bird and she was very sick, so...desperate times...

Basically, you want to make sure that whatever you give them doesn't fill them up to the point that they waste meds, and doesn't taste so awful that they don't eat it (and waste it). You may have to give it in small increments- but they still need the full days dose, and call your vet to explain that there will be some waste (write down the ML wasted so that you can get more). Don't give more or less than prescribed on a given day, but you may run low toward the end of the course, which is why you have to let them know ahead of time to make sure they are okay with it.

 

[Scott]

Baytril is a go-to antibiotic for many bacterial infections. Recheck ought establish whether he is on the right track! If not, more powerful and targeted meds available.

Unfortunately most vet clinics formulate Baytril with a nasty flavor that many birds dislike. Excellent suggestions by "noodles," I have best success with small quantities of plain cooked oatmeal, served at room temperature.

 

[Tinkgrrrbell]

Just an update on Pookie- he took Baytril for 10 days, and we went back in to retest. Gram Negative bacteria is now down to zero, which she said is too low. She’s putting him on probiotics for a couple weeks to boost that back up.

 

[Scott]

Wonderful update for Pookie! I am not familiar with the normal range of gram negative bacteria, but probiotics are generally recommended following a course of antibiotics.