Egg bound?

[ChristaNL]

I do not think your budgies/ tiels lives will be incomplete when they do not breed at all, ever


(that is why we have breederbirds or companionbirds- 2 very different jobs)



Sorry.. I see this a LOT with people who do not spay their cat "because we do not want to take away that experience from them" and/or "it is a good (learning) experience for the children to witness this process".
Of course this is a fun project for the kids but....the world is overfilled with cats, rescues/shelters are bursting at the seams with unwanted felines --so it really pisses me off when people breed more "just for the fun of it" (or because they are too darned lazy or irresponsible to spay and neuter their animals).


The same goes with birds; if you have a run-of-the-mill garden variety budgie they are more or less 'desposible birds' for many. Do not breed more! Nobody really 'needs' them.

(I know this sounds harsh to people who own and love those to bits, but I am thinking marketwise/ commercially now)
Those are birds that get dumped in shops or craighslist for anyone who wants (their kid) "to practice on".
Not a life (however short it may be) I would wish for any animal.


aka: dont breed surplus animals if you can help it!

 

[EllenD]

I don't at all understand not wanting to learn as much as you can about hand-raising/hand-feeding baby birds if you're allowing your birds to breed and the chicks to hatch. I just don't get it...I think that Yumgrinder wanting to let his birds have a clutch so he can personally experience the process is fine (assuming that he's not going to allow them to just breed and breed and breed like Budgies and Cockatiels both will do if you let them), and the fact that he is knowledgeable of parrots and very loving and a responsible owner makes it all the better...

However, this whole "allowing nature to take it's course" thing, and the "I'm not going to intervene, if the chicks die they die because that's what nature has chosen" thing is not only counterintuitive, but it's actually quite cruel and irresponsible...I'm not at all trying to "impose my will" on anyone, and that should be apparent to everyone on this forum, especially considering that many other members in addition to myself, including Christa, have many, many times responded to posts where the OP has allowed their birds to breed and they have baby chicks that they don't know how to care for and that have been rejected by the parent birds with "You need to get the chicks to an Avian Vet immediately", followed by step-by-step instructions on how to hand-feed them, how to make a Brooder, what supplies they'll need, etc...I'm 100% certain that I've not EVER seen anyone tell these OP's to simply "Let the chicks die, don't intervene, it's nature's will if they die", or anything of the like...So why should our advice to Yumgrinder breeding his birds and "planning on allowing the parents to raise and feed the chicks" be any different than the advice we have given every other OP in this position dozens and dozens of times??? In fact, with Yumgrinder our advice should be way more confident in the fact that he is capable of hand-raising and hand-feeding any rejected chicks because we know him and how much he cares for his birds and what a responsible owner he is...Yet we tell total strangers that have never owned a pet bird before that they need to always be ready to tqke-over raising and hand-feeding baby birds even if they are planning on allowing the parents to raise them? How does that make any sense at all?

And let's be real here about this "nature" thing and "not intervening" with the what the parents choose to do with the chicks...First of all, does anyone here, including Yumgrinder, reallyt think that he could sit there and watch a baby bird that has been kicked out of the nest-box by it's mom lay on the bottom of the cage for hours and hours, crying away for hours in pain while it's suffering, and him actually choosing to allow this to happen and allowing the baby to slowly die a long, agonizing death from dehydration and starvation because it is "nature's choice/will", especially when he knows that he is fully able to not only save the baby bird's life, but to hand-raise it into a sweet, loving pet bird for someone? I for one am quite confident in saying that I'm 100% certain that Yumgrinder would not and actually could not allow that to happen, nor listen and watch it happen...So why shouldn't he be totally prepared to take-over raising and hand-feeding a baby if/when this happens? Why should we not do everything we can to educate him, answer all of his questions, and make sure that he has everything that he's going to need?

This isn't "nature" and these are not "wild" birds...These are hand-raised, tame, pet birds who have lived their entire lives in captivity. And though they do retain some of their natural, innate instincts, these instincts do not apply at all to their environment...They will not ever not have enough food or water, they will not ever have to worry about predators, or weather/temperature issues, and they get professional Veterinary care whenever they need it, so they don't have to worry about dying from infections, parasites, etc. So when a natural-instinct kicks in and a parent bird tosses one of it's babies out of the nest-box because it is missing a toe or has a bad wing that will prevent it from flying, do you really think that means that we should "let nature take it's course" and allow the chick to lay there and die a long, painful death when it can live a perfectly normal and wonderful life in captivity with the deformity, or when we can get it Veterinary care and give it antibiotics to take care of the infection or parasites it has? We've done everything we can to try to "domesticate" these birds and make them a part of our own human families. So why in the world would we knowingly allow them to breed in captivity, continue to treat them like they are tame, domesticated birds by feeding them and caring for them, and then suddenly when they reject a baby chick we say "Nope! Hands-off, let it die! It's nature's will!!!"????? Does that sound rational or logical? We all know that our pet birds still innately hide all outward signs and symptoms of illness because they naturallly want to defend against predators...So should we just allow them to die and not take them to the Vet when we think they might be sick, just because this is their natural, innate, "wild" instinct to do so? I don't think so, as again these innate survival-intincts that our birds have retained do not at all apply to the environment that they have been born-into and raised in...

And Yumgrinder, why would you not want to learn everything you can about hand-raising and hand-feeding baby birds and not want to "intervene" if necessary to save the life of one of your bird's babies? Suddenly you're going to treat these babies like they're a "product of nature" and if they die they die, if they live they live? I don't think so, not for a minute...And regardless, this isn't "the wild" and honestly choosing to allow baby birds to starve to death when rejected by their parent-birds is a really horrible time to choose to start treating them like they aren't your pets, because they are...These aren't going to be baby birds that you find outside that have fallen out of their nests or that were rejected by their mother's because they have an illness or deformity. These are your tame, pet birds that are your responsiblity. And I think it's great that you want to let them have a clutch of babies and so that you can have the experience at least once...But if you're going to do it, do it responsibly and ethically, and don't choose now to start allowing your pet, tame, captive, dependent birds to have their lives determined "by nature's choice"...

 

[YUMgrinder]

4 eggs now! woot woot.

 

[noodles123]

Your bird laid 4 eggs?

 

[YUMgrinder]

Your bird laid 4 eggs?

5 now yayy

 

[Laurasea]

Tell her she did great , and now stop please that's enough future babies
Did you read up on splayed legs? I found a really great article and posted in someone's thread on budgies. Anyway we want to prevent the hat for yours, I think it's having a good amount of nesting material...if you are interested I look for it again.

 

[YUMgrinder]

Tell her she did great , and now stop please that's enough future babies
Did you read up on splayed legs? I found a really great article and posted in someone's thread on budgies. Anyway we want to prevent the hat for yours, I think it's having a good amount of nesting material...if you are interested I look for it again.

yea I am introducing more and more material for her nest, she takes some of it out and rearranges it but I should have a nice little pad for them once it comes time for them to hatch.

 

[itzjbean]

Give this a read. My last attempt of breeding my cockatiels ended with mom dying on eggs and I had to pull them and incubate the eggs. It was not an enjoyable experience. Pure opposite actually!

Just because you want things to go right, doesn't mean they will. With a previous clutch I had to pull and hand-feed the baby to weaning because mom picked on it and plucked its feathers! It would've surely died if I hadn't intervened and known what to do, the proper temperature for formula, the proper equipment to raise said baby, and he lived and went to a loving home. Because I knew how to intervene, all babies lived.

Breeding can be a tricky business, and if your birds are potentially sick they will not make healthy, thriving young but diseased, sick young who won't thrive. Just something to think about if you're letting diseased/sick birds mate and reproduce. It's just not responsible.

 

[EllenD]

Itzjbean speak the truth...Breeding birds in any fashion, whether as a business, a hobby, or just to allow your pet birds breed once or twice isn't fun, at least not until it's over and the chicks are all weaned and healthy and happy. And it rarely goes that way because we're bringing nature into captivity. And nothing ever goes the way it's supposed to, whether you're letting the parents feed and raise the babies or you're an experienced breeder who is pulling the babies at 2-3 weeks old and hand-raising them yourself...That's why i said that it's important that you are educated and prepared before they hatch, it will make it less stressful by far...

As far as the bedding goes, it's totally normal for them to toss it out every single time you put it back into the nest-box, but you have to keep doing it so the babies won't become splay-legged, which happens quickly if there isn't enough bedding in the bottom. So just keep putting it back in the bottom so there is a good half-inch of it, she'll toss it out, you put it back in, and so on every day until they are weaned...It's like a little game, lol.

 

[YUMgrinder]

Breeding sick birds? Who said I was breeding sick birds???? Is anyone here listening? helllooooooooooo

 

[YUMgrinder]

Give this a read. My last attempt of breeding my cockatiels ended with mom dying on eggs and I had to pull them and incubate the eggs. It was not an enjoyable experience. Pure opposite actually!

Just because you want things to go right, doesn't mean they will. With a previous clutch I had to pull and hand-feed the baby to weaning because mom picked on it and plucked its feathers! It would've surely died if I hadn't intervened and known what to do, the proper temperature for formula, the proper equipment to raise said baby, and he lived and went to a loving home. Because I knew how to intervene, all babies lived.

Breeding can be a tricky business, and if your birds are potentially sick they will not make healthy, thriving young but diseased, sick young who won't thrive. Just something to think about if you're letting diseased/sick birds mate and reproduce. It's just not responsible.

Why do you think that I am letting diseased/sick birds breed? has anyone been listening? hellloooooooo



And yes, I remember your tiel dieing on her eggs. That was tragic. I have had birds die, I know. They risk dieing everyday, I don't see that as a reason to keep them from breeding. They could die from eating or drinking or flying but I don't keep food and water from them and I let them fly.

 

[YUMgrinder]

itzjbean speak the truth...breeding birds in any fashion, whether as a business, a hobby, or just to allow your pet birds breed once or twice isn't fun, at least not until it's over and the chicks are all weaned and healthy and happy. And it rarely goes that way because we're bringing nature into captivity. And nothing ever goes the way it's supposed to, whether you're letting the parents feed and raise the babies or you're an experienced breeder who is pulling the babies at 2-3 weeks old and hand-raising them yourself...that's why i said that it's important that you are educated and prepared before they hatch, it will make it less stressful by far...

As far as the bedding goes, it's totally normal for them to toss it out every single time you put it back into the nest-box, but you have to keep doing it so the babies won't become splay-legged, which happens quickly if there isn't enough bedding in the bottom. So just keep putting it back in the bottom so there is a good half-inch of it, she'll toss it out, you put it back in, and so on every day until they are weaned...it's like a little game, lol.

yes i understand i may need to help them raise their chicks, even though they are much better parents than I. Anyone else want to mention it? Yes i knowwwwwww

 

[YUMgrinder]

I do not think your budgies/ tiels lives will be incomplete when they do not breed at all, ever


(that is why we have breederbirds or companionbirds- 2 very different jobs)



Sorry.. I see this a LOT with people who do not spay their cat "because we do not want to take away that experience from them" and/or "it is a good (learning) experience for the children to witness this process".
Of course this is a fun project for the kids but....the world is overfilled with cats, rescues/shelters are bursting at the seams with unwanted felines --so it really pisses me off when people breed more "just for the fun of it" (or because they are too darned lazy or irresponsible to spay and neuter their animals).


The same goes with birds; if you have a run-of-the-mill garden variety budgie they are more or less 'desposible birds' for many. Do not breed more! Nobody really 'needs' them.

(I know this sounds harsh to people who own and love those to bits, but I am thinking marketwise/ commercially now)
Those are birds that get dumped in shops or craighslist for anyone who wants (their kid) "to practice on".
Not a life (however short it may be) I would wish for any animal.


aka: dont breed surplus animals if you can help it!

My budgies babies will have a home with me, whether they are surplus or not, and I will have as many of my own kids as I want, despite the fact that you think we should stop breeding "surplus" species.

 

[Allee]

So I read you aren't suppose to tell if she is even got an egg, but mine two were having sex or whatever a few nights ago and now her butt looks weird. What do you think

Yumgrinder, I just read through this entire thread and the comments you received all look appropriate to me, after all you opened the door with your first question in the thread. You want to know what people think, you asked, they answered.

 

[YUMgrinder]

So I read you aren't suppose to tell if she is even got an egg, but mine two were having sex or whatever a few nights ago and now her butt looks weird. What do you think

Yumgrinder, I just read through this entire thread and the comments you received all look appropriate to me, after all you opened the door with your first question in the thread. You want to know what people think, you asked, they answered.

what? Where did you come from? I never asked you anything. I'm so confused. STOP deleting my replies, I don't understand why you thought you had to interject with moderator powers? What rules did I break?

I literally only responded to the comment of " Just something to think about if you're letting diseased/sick birds mate and reproduce. It's just not responsible." and I am only trying to be clear, again, even though I said it multiple times already, I AM NOT BREEDING SICK/DISEASED BIRDS.

I asked about a possible egg binding issue, and yes they answered. What does that have to do with our current discussion of breeding sick birds? I have said over and over and over again that I am NOT breeding any sick birds. And for the record, I didn't ask for a moderator to tell me "they answered my question" because the problem has nothing to do with the original question on this, plus... I DIDN'T ASK.

Jesus Christ.

 

[SunnyGirl]

I didn't read the whole thread, just the first few posts so I have no idea if this was mentioned anywhere so... is your budgie doing ok? was she eggbound, what did the vet say?

 

[YUMgrinder]

you know what, I'm done with this thread. I wish I could have shared this experience with you guys further, but nobody is listening and this is no longer helpful especially now that moderators are blowing me up and deleting my replies. You don't get to delete my reply to someone else's comment, then leave their comment bashing me. I deserve to be able to have my responses seen, since the comments are accusing me of breeding sick parrots. I most certainly am NOT BREEDING SICK BIRDS. Besides, the original question was covered, and she's obviously not egg bound.

 

[Allee]

Yumgrinder, that’s the thing about Moderators, you don’t have to ask for our help, we’re always here for you. Yes, I believe you made it very clear that you are not breeding birds with health issues but in fact no one accused you of doing that. Your multiple posts looked like you were revving up for a frustrated tantrum, I thought I should intervene before it got out of hand. Glad I could help. Just so you know, I haven’t used my mod powers to delete a thing from this thread but we have more than one mod and you’ve been here long enough to know that.

 

[Allee]

you know what, I'm done with this thread. I wish I could have shared this experience with you guys further, but nobody is listening and this is no longer helpful especially now that moderators are blowing me up and deleting my replies. You don't get to delete my reply to someone else's comment, then leave their comment bashing me. I deserve to be able to have my responses seen, since the comments are accusing me of breeding sick parrots. I most certainly am NOT BREEDING SICK BIRDS. Besides, the original question was covered, and she's obviously not egg bound.

I’m sorry you’re so upset, Yumgrinder. If you’d like, I’ll be happy to delete the thread for you.

 

[YUMgrinder]

Yumgrinder, that’s the thing about Moderators, you don’t have to ask for our help, we’re always here for you. Yes, I believe you made it very clear that you are not breeding birds with health issues but in fact no one accused you of doing that. Your multiple posts looked like you were revving up for a frustrated tantrum, I thought I should intervene before it got out of hand. Glad I could help. Just so you know, I haven’t used my mod powers to delete a thing from this thread but we have more than one mod and you’ve been here long enough to know that.

yes, there are other moderators, I don't care who deleted my comments, I wasn't talking to just you. But I'm sure you knew that.

Yes, I was accused twice of breeding sick parrots, I'll quote it again

" Just something to think about if you're letting diseased/sick birds mate and reproduce. It's just not responsible."

in which the next commenter agreed to this, so yes, I was accused. hence my reply that was deleted asking if anyone was listening. You just proved to me you haven't read the whole post either if you didn't see the accusation I am currently frustrated over. Like I said, this has evolved into something more than a question about egg bound, and should end here.