Is my sweetie depressed?

[Breakfastgirl]

Hello everyone. I am a new budgie mom to what I think is a little girl that I named Breakfast. She is untamed. As of yesterday, she has been with me for one week. She seemed to adjust very well after two days. She was active, eating seed as well as a small amount of veggie and fruit, and was vocal. She sat on her perch and explored her cage. I was pretty excited about her progress and how quick she was taking in everything. I am trying to tame her and spend a lot of time in her vicinity. I sit by her cage, play on my laptop, play her music, and talk to her. She seems responsive enough by moving her head back and forth etc. I’ve started to introduce my hand with some millet in it, which she seems super interested in but runs around or stares at. She’s not ready to eat anything from me, which is not my main concern.
Yes taming her seems to be frustrating but it’s only been a week so I am giving her all of the time in the world. I want her to bond with me and trust me like a mother which I am hoping happens eventually. However, I am worried she is becoming depressed. Her behavior has changed these last two days. Her posture isn’t as straight as it was before, she’s not as interested in her food, and I haven’t heard much out of her aside from some very very small little chirps which sorta break my heart. I’ve read all the symptoms describing a sick budgie and I don’t think she has a viral illness. Yesterday I put on three hours of budgie noises for her to see if it would pep her up and it did. She went back into her normal mode, ate her food, and sang along with the birds. Today it seems like she is back to the less active bird. I gave her some fruit and veggies but she hasn’t come down from her perch this morning and doesn’t seem interested in much. I decided to put the bird noises back on and she is back to her active self again and pigging out on veggies and fruit.
I am wondering, although I’d love for her to bond with just me and just have her as a solo bird which was the plan, should I get her a companion at this point? I don’t want to be selfish and I feel like it’s becoming something that may be crucial for her because I hate to see this little girl sad. It’s starting to become super upsetting because I am not sure if she’s happy or not and I really do just want the best for her. I also know it is probably not awful for them to hear the sounds of other parakeets, but I feel like I am misleading or confusing her by playing these sounds when there is no companion around for her.
Any advice welcomed, since so far I have turned into a bit of a stressball worrying about this sweet girl!

P.S. I tried to post a picture of him/her but I am probably not doing it correctly

 

[ChristaNL]

just throwing a random thought in the mix:

(s)he is a new bird...and they tend to be on 'high alert' when they are in a new cage/home/surroundings. So maybe what you perceive as apathy is actually the bird calming down a bit and maybe trying to catch up on some rest (maybe sleep)?

If (s)he came from a birdfilled environment (s)he may be feeling alone and scared and hearing other birds helps- because she feels safer (or the opposite: make her look for other birds even more).

Of course it is completely up to you
- if you want an interactive bird: just give your little one time to adjust and go through the 'building trust" and "bonding" like you have been doing.
It's only been a week, that is no time at all.

- if you are okay with just birdwatching and be a spectator in that birds life, then you always can get him/her a friend of course (just find out the sexe first plze, not al cagemates become or even stay friends once hormones kick in, and breeding may become an issue)

(the second option is always there... but taming multiple birds is a lot harder)

 

[GaleriaGila]

Hello, fellow Houstonian. That was my hometown.

Are you interested in a veterinary opinion? I always like to rule out any medical issues that could masquerade as depression or other stuff...

Certified Avian Vets
https://abvp.com/animal-owners/find-an-abvp-specialist/
If none are near you...
Avian Veterinarians
http://www.aav.org/search/custom.asp?id=1803
In my opinion, any of the vets listed here should be better than a regular vet.

 

[Laurasea]

Hello and welcome. Budgies are hard to befriend in my opinion. I think your best chance is to have her on her own. They are by nature flock birds. I have two boys, and have had limited success in taming one, the other not a chance so far...but it took months for Cloudy to trust me, the second one Clear let's me get an inch away now. I admit I haven't been deducted to befriending them though.
The first week they were with me, they both didn't eat well, or make much noise. And they had each other, it just takes time. Now they rarely stop making noise
Sounds like you are really making the effort, and I think it will pay off for you in time.
My little Cloudy will come up to my face and sing and chatter, but he also will sing and chatter to anything that holds still including sticks!
Keep up the good work lots if talking to her. They are smart, and playful when they open up.

 

[Breakfastgirl]

Thank you all for responding to me!
I actually decided to go ahead and get her a buddy. Something inside me was thinking she needed it. I got her another, what I think is a girl, from the same person I got Breakfast from. They are already pretty content together. I am very surprised but the new girl I got, Pearl, is already eating right now. I think they remember each other because they are cuddling up. It is very sweet and I feel a lot better having Breakfast a little companion.
I am still going to of course try my hardest to tame them even though I know it was more difficult with two birds. I am just super happy they have each other right now.

 

[Breakfastgirl]

Hello, fellow Houstonian. That was my hometown.

Are you interested in a veterinary opinion? I always like to rule out any medical issues that could masquerade as depression or other stuff...

Certified Avian Vets
https://abvp.com/animal-owners/find-an-abvp-specialist/
If none are near you...
Avian Veterinarians
http://www.aav.org/search/custom.asp?id=1803
In my opinion, any of the vets listed here should be better than a regular vet.

And yes! Thank you so much for this. I actually want to get them both checked up just to be safe. I want to make sure they are tip top and feeling their best.

 

[Breakfastgirl]

Also, this forum has been helping me so much this week. I have been reading and I am glad I finally decided to post. I will definitely keep in touch and give updates about my babies. They are so special to me.

 

[EllenD]

I wish I would have been online last night to talk to you about this...Laura was exactly correct in what she said to you...

I have been owning, breeding, and handraising/feeding Budgies since I was 6, I grew-up in a family who did the same for decades...And if you want a non-tame, non-handraised Budgie to bond with you at all, the very worst thing you can do is bring a second Budgie home and put them together, because it probably isn't ever going to happen now...Budgies are extremely social flock-animals, and they need to have "friends" or a 'flock", that's correct, but YOU need to be your Budgie's flock/friend if you want he/she to bond closely with you, or at all with you...Now that they have the choice of a human or another Budgie, they will choose the Budgie every day of the week...And this applies also to hand-tame, hand-raised Budgies too, so with a non-tame, parent-raised Budgie it's impossible to tame them once they bond with another Budgie, as they don't need you any longer. That's how they think...

Another HUGE issue is that you cannot tell the gender of a Budgie until they are at least around a year of age, as the only way to visually sex them is by the color of their Cere, and their Cere will continue to change colors until they go through puberty completely, which takes until they are about a year old. So whatever color their Ceres are right now has no bearing at all on their gender unless they are over a year old..If they are not, then you've potentially got a male/female pair in the same cage, and they will breed and breed and breed, and you're also putting the female into danger of malnutrition, calcium deficiency, and egg-binding, which is fatal...And if they came from the same breeder or store, they are likely siblings or at least relatives, and you certainly don't want them to inbreed over and over again.

***It can take a non-tame, parent-raised Budgie months and months to well over a year to form a bond with a person, allow you to earn their trust, and become hand-tame...You only had your Budgie for a week, so you hadn't even begun to start bonding/taming him. I have hand-tamed dozens and dozens of parent-raised Budgies, both American and English, and on-average it takes between 6 months to a year to get them to the point where they will come out of their cages and come to you, step-up for you regularly, and want to hang-out with you on your shoulder...So you unfortunately didn't even begin to bond with your bird when you chose to "buy him a buddy"; I know that you meant well, but what you didn't understand was that YOU WERE SUPPOSE TO BE HIS/HER BUDDY!!! Now he doesn't need a person to be his flock, and it will be nearly impossible to do so if he bonds closely with this new Budgie...

***The absolute best thing that you can do for not only your relationship with either bird, assuming you still want to have tame, "pet" birds and not just Budgies you look at inside of a cage, but also because you have no idea what their genders are at this point (assuming they are younger than a year old, which they typically are if you get them at a pet shop or from a breeder), is to separate each of them into their own cages so that they each have their own complete set-ups, and try keeping them in the same room, but not next to each other, but rather across the room, and do not allow them to interact with each other until AFTER you bond and form relationships with both of them. At that point they will be far more likely to stay bonded to you and not bond closely with each other, and want to keep their own territories (their cages) and not share them or start breeding if they are of the opposite genders.

Now there isn't anything wrong with just allowing them to bond with each other and not interact with you much, if that's what you want, but what you need to understand and BE ALRIGHT WITH is that they are likely not going to want much at all to do with you on a personal level. They may actually never even tame enough that they don't nip at you, or they might be alright with you being near them but won't want any physical contact with you. I don't know how you're feeling about the situation now, or if you just expected to work with both of them and have them both bond with you closely in-time, but I just want you to be aware of what you're most-likely going to end-up with. The other option is to return the second Budgie to the store or breeder immediately, so that you are back to square-one and can again start over in forming a relationship with the first Budgie...

We can certainly help you with hand-taming and earning the trust of your Budgie, I have done this process many, many times, and they are a bit different than other parrots in that they tend to bond closely with one person or one bird and that's it, so the bonds that you end-up forming with one of them are extremely close and extremely strong...But if you decide to keep the second Budgie in the same cage with the first Budgie, then all bets are off and the process of you bonding with either of them is probably not going to happen...And trust me, the last thing you want is a non-tame, wild breeding-pair of Budgies living together, because they just breed and breed and breed until either the female dies from egg-binding, malnutrition, etc., or they sometimes end-up hurting each other due to jealousy over the chicks, and if that happens then the chicks usually die as well. No way to tell whether that will happen with a breeding-pair, it just does suddenly..

If you've only had the second Budgie for a couple of days, I highly recommend you call the breeder or store and tell them that you decided you cannot properly care for two birds, and see if they'll take him/her back, and then return him/her immediately. From reading your initial post it sounds like you decided to bring a parrot into your family and home because you wanted to earn it's trust and form a very close bond with it, and that is completely possible as long as you are very committed to doing it every single day, you locate it's cage in the "main room" of your home, the room where you spend most of your time when you're home (usually the living room, den, family room, etc.) so that the bird will always be around you and others who live in your home when you're doing things like watching TV, talking, eating meals, reading, playing games, etc., so he becomes used to people and is always "among his flock" and not is some back bedroom away on his own...And if you're willing to spend a good 30 minutes to an hour working with him every single day and then passively interact with him whenever you're home by just being in the same room with him, within the next 6 months or so you will earn his trust and start to actually form a close bond with him. However, if you decide to leave the second Budgie with him/her, then this is probably not going to happen, and they will have each other as their "flock" rather than you and any other people who live in your home. That's how parrots work, they are "Flock Animals" and they need to be among their Flock, but when given the choice of whether their Flock is other parrots or people, they'll choose the other birds every day of the week and twice on Sunday, and especially if they are parent-raised, non-handtame birds like your Budgie is. I don't want you to be disappointed and become frustrated because your birds aren't taming or bonding with you, because usually when this happens the owners eventually re-home them to people who will use them solely as breeding-pairs or if they are the same sex they'll split them up and do the same, or they will surrender them to an Avian Rescue, and as someone who works at a large Avian Rescue I can tell you that we are typically FLOODED with Budgies and Cockatiels, and the non-tame ones are tough to place and usually stay with use for years....

 

[EllenD]

Also, something I forgot to talk about is what the issue with your Budgie was in the first-place, the issue that lead you to go out and mistakenly buy a second Budgie because you thought he "needed a friend"...

***The very first thing that you need to know about owning ANY birds of any kind as pets or at least being responsible for them, whether they are parrots, doves/pigeons, poultry birds, or any other species or type of bird, is that all birds possess a natural, innate survival instinct that forces them to hide ANY AND ALL outward signs/symptoms of illness and pain for as long as they possibly can. This applies to all birds of any level of tameness, from a completely hand-tame, loving, cuddly bird to a completely wild, parent-raised bird. They do this because they are Flock-Animals, they all live in Flocks naturally in the wild, as well as when they are tame and live with people, as their people are their Flocks...Any bird in a Flock that visibly appears to be weak, sick, or injured instantly becomes a target for predators such as cats, foxes, wolves, coyotes, larger predatory birds like Vultures, Hawks, Eagles, Ravens, Crows, etc. So this not only puts the outwardly sick/injured bird at-risk for being killed by a predator, but it puts the entire Flock at-risk. This is why all birds end-up hiding all outward signs/symptoms of illness and/or pain for as long as they possibly can, sometimes for months and months to even over a year.

***By the time we as people see outward signs of illness or pain in our birds, they have usually been sick or injured for quite some time already. Usually at the point that we notice something is wrong with our birds they actually been sick for months and months, and are often very close to death, sometimes being too far gone to save, even with Veterinary care. So if you see a bird displaying any common signs of illness or pain that means that you need to get them to either a Certified Avian Vet or an Avian Specialist Vet (no "Exotics" Vets, I'll talk about this later) right away...And I'm talking about ANY of the common signs and symptoms of illness and/or pain in birds, including Lethargy and not playing or moving as much as they normally do, sleeping more than normal, having their feathers "fluffed-up" for long periods of time (indicates they may be feverish and having chills), if they are spending time down on the bottom of their cages (this is because they are having issues balancing on perches or climbing on the cage bars), vomiting, loose or runny feces, feces with any blood in them (appears either bright red, dark red, or black; also can appear to look like coffee-grounds), feces that have undigested food/seeds visible in them, ANY change in their appetites such as suddenly not eating as much as they normally do or not eating anything at all during a day (this is a HUGE sign that they are not feeling well and are in critical need of an Avian Vet), sudden weight loss, any Feather-Destructive Behavior or Self-Mutilation, any respiratory issues such as sneezing, coughing, wheezing when they breath, any open-mouth breathing or heavy breathing, any discharge coming from their nostrils, eyes, or ears (any color, doesn't matter), etc....If you notice ANY of these signs/symptoms being suddenly displayed by your bird, or if your bird gradually or progressively develops signs/symptoms of illness that you can actually see getting worse and worse; the best example of this is a bird who starts having issues flying, such as not being able to control their landings or having crash landings, then it progresses to them crashing into walls and not being able to turn or land at all, then finally they can't even gain altitude at all...This is a very common progression for Neurological symptoms, which can be due to an Avian Viral Disease, a Bacterial Disease, or an infection that is severe and spreading like an inner or middle ear infection or sinus infection that is causing them disorientation and vestibular issues, such as Vertigo...

***With your Budgie you mentioned that he suddenly started acting "differently" than he had been acting since you had brought him home...Now I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "acting differently", but it's extremely difficult to tell whether or not a bird is sick after only being in a new home/environment and with new people for only a week, especially a parent-raised, non-handtame bird that is not used to human interaction at all...It could simply be that the bird is stressed about the change in environment, and with a non-handtame bird that went from being with a bunch of other Budgies to suddenly in a cage by itself in a new place with new people...

HOWEVER, any time you bring home a new bird, whether from a breeder or pet shop, and whether young or old, you always need to take the bird to a Certified Avian Vet or Avian Specialist Vet for a complete "Wellness Exam", and then you need to take them at least once a year for these Wellness-Exams for the rest of the bird's life...This is the best way to ensure that your bird is not suffering from any illness and catching any illnesses that they are suffering from as early as possible, instead of waiting for your bird to become critically ill and in the late/end stages when they finally start showing outward signs and symptoms...The first Wellness-Exam should be done within the first month of bringing a new bird home, and the sooner the better. The reason that you must find either a CAV or Avian Specialist Vet to take your bird to for their Wellness-Exam is because Exotics Vets or General Vets have absolutely no extra education or training in Avian medicine at all (in the US anyway), and Exotics Vets are simply General dog/cat Vets who decide that they are willing to see/treat animals other than dog and cats. That's it. You do not have to have any extra education, training, licenses or certifications in the US to call yourself an "Exotics" Vet, and typically they see birds, reptiles/amphibians, rodents, marsupials, primates, livestock, etc. So you definitely want to find the closest Board-Certified Avian Vet or Avian Specialist Vet (these ONLY see birds) to you, which we can help you with. There's a great search-tool here in the forum for finding Avian Specialist Vets all over the world...

***The first and the future yearly Wellness-Exams of your bird need to include a full visual and physical exam of your bird, followed by a Fecal Culture being sent-out to the laboratory that the Vet uses, as well as having them do basic Microscopy and Gram-Staining of the Fecal-sample right there in the office to test for any Bacterial, Fungal/Yeast, Protozoan, and/or Parasitic infections throughout the GI Tract (in birds this includes their entire GI Tract from their Crops all the way through their Stomachs, through their Intestinal Tracts, and through their Cloacas)....You should always collect fresh droppings from either the night before of the morning of the day of your bird's appointment, and simply put them in a baggie or a container and keep them in the fridge until it's time to go to the appointment....In addition to the Fecal tests, a Wellness-Exam should also include standard baseline/routine Blood-Work to check for Infections, Anemia, Nutritional Deficiencies/Metabolic issues, and most-importantly in birds is checking their Liver and Kidney functions/health. So it's imperative that you request that your Avian Vet always do standard Blood-Work at each yearly Wellness-Exam, and especially at your bird's first Wellness Exam within the first month of you bringing him home, because it's extremely common for all birds, whether coming from a pet shop, bird shop, private-breeder, or from a Rescue to be exposed to all kinds of Bacterial, Fungal, and Parasitic infections, as well as to certain Avian Viral Diseases, some of which are fatal without treatment.{/B]

****So you need to find the closest Avian Vet to you and make an appointment for your bird's first Wellness-Exam anyway, but since he started "acting differently" it makes this first Wellness-Exam all the more important...Usually the only signs that we as their owners get that our birds are sick or in pain are very subtle changes in their personalities, so it's extremely important that we take-note of these very subtle personality changes and we get our birds to our Avian Vets as soon as possible after noticing them, so that we catch conditions like infections, diseases, etc. before they become extremely advanced and harder or impossible to treat.

.

 

[EllenD]

Last post, I promise, lol...I just want to make sure you have all the information you need to make a very informed-decision about what to do with your two Budgies, as you made what is going to end-up being a very critical and impactful decision by going out and "buying a buddy" for your first Budgie that you brought home to be YOUR friend and bonded TO YOU. I'd rather you were still able to accomplish that, if you're willing to commit to spending 6 months to a year hand-taming and earning the trust of a parent-raised, non-tame Budgie...But the chances of you accomplishing that now that you have two parent-raised, non-tame Budgies that you put in the same cage together are very, very slim to probably none. And something that I didn't even mention is the fact that now you have two Budgies that you'll have to commit to hand-taming and bonding with instead of one, and again, the chances of being able to get a parent-raised, non-tame Budgie to become hand-tame, to give you it's trust, and to bond closely with you when it has the option of bonding closely with another Budgie instead of you are extremely slim to none, and I want to make sure you understand that and are okay with that...Working at an Avian Rescue for over 8 years, I can't tell you how many times I've seen people who did EXACTLY what you did coming in and surrendering their two birds because they finally have come to terms with the fact that they really want a bird that is bonded with them and not to another bird, and also because they ended-up with essentially a non-tame "Breeding-Pair" of birds that just keep breeding over and over again. It's so much better for both the birds and for you if you can make the right decisions for you now. That way you can be happy and your birds can be happy, no matter what you decide...

So the changes that you noticed in your new Budgie during his/her first week in your home weren't in any way his need for "a friend", but likely were simply his/her reactions to being in a new environment with new people and this causing him a bit of stress/anxiety. However, if they continue then he/she could also be sick, and that's why getting him to an Avian Vet ASAP for his first Wellness-Exam is extremely important...

***Either way, his need for "a friend", or rather his need to be a social Flock-Animal, needs to be filled by YOU if your intentions are to earn his trust and form a very close bond with your bird, OR if you're okay with not bonding closely with him but rather having him bond to this other Budgie, then that's fine, that's your choice, but you still need to be aware that if they are under a year-old then there is no way to tell their genders visually (a DNA test can be done with either a few feathers plucked from the chest or with a small drop or two of blood from a clipped toenail at your Avian Vet), and if they are of the opposite sex and they bond-closely and live in the same cage, then they are going to continually breed and lay eggs, and like I stated in my first post, if they came from the same breeder or pet shop, they are likely closely related, probably siblings from the same clutch of eggs, and you should never allow inbreeding of birds to occur....And it's much easier FOR you and easier ON them if you make your decisions now while they aren't yet bonded closely about either separating them into different cages or actually taking the second Budgie back to the breeder or pet shop if you still do want to be your bird's "Flock" and bond closely with them and hand-tame him/her...

 

[Laurasea]

Im glad you joined us too. I like having multiple birds. I think ElkenD is right you might have more success in separate cages. But I have had some success with Cloudy, and truely I didn't put the time in like I should. I have them both out free flight with my other birds daily. And once Cloudy landed on my arm to hang out with me but Neptune chased him away. Just the other day he hovered by my chair looking for a spot to land. The other budgie Clear I can out my face next to him and talk to him when he is out of the cage, but that's it so far. I hope you share pics of your babies soon.

 

[EllenD]

Im glad you joined us too. I like having multiple birds. I think ElkenD is right you might have more success in separate cages. But I have had some success with Cloudy, and truely I didn't put the time in like I should. I have them both out free flight with my other birds daily. And once Cloudy landed on my arm to hang out with me but Neptune chased him away. Just the other day he hovered by my chair looking for a spot to land. The other budgie Clear I can out my face next to him and talk to him when he is out of the cage, but that's it so far. I hope you share pics of your babies soon.

It's not "impossible" Laura, but it's also not at all probable, especially with a first-time bird owner who has never hand-tamed a parent-raised, non-tame Budgie...So putting another Budgie from probably the same clutch or a closely-related clutch into the same cage is not a good idea at all simply due to the breeding and inbreediing problems...I really think if this OP wants to hand-tame one or both of these Budgies, the best thing they can do is to at the very least separate them into their own cages and start working with both of them...

The other issue is that the OP at this point has no idea if they are going to be able to be in the same cage at all anyway, they may start fighting and not bond with each other at all. It's too soon to know that too...It's just a bad situation all the way around, and the breeding/in-breeding problem is the biggest issue...But I got the feeling that this OP bought a Budgie in the first place so that they could develop a close bond/relationship with them, and with a parent-raised, non-tame Budgie, putting another Budgie together with it is going to make that very difficult for them...I don't want this to end-up as a double re-home of two non-tame Budgies a few months from now, because that means they will be turned into either a constant breeding-pair or just furniture by the next owner or owners...Not to say the OP would definitely re-home them, but that tends to be what happens if they can't succeed in hand-taming them...