Giving oral medications HELP

EllenD

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Awe, poor Gracie...Yes, the Milk Thistle is a wonder-medicine for not only liver-detox, but for actually treating Fatty Liver Disease, as well as "Liver Diseases" in-general. It encourages actual liver-regeneration, and it is one of the "natural" supplements that really does work miracles for the livers of birds, reptiles, dogs, cats, rodents, and yes, people.

As for the Vitamin D, that could be for skin/feathers, but if Gracie is underweight, which probably indicates that she's also malnourished and is most-likely suffering from some nutritional deficiencies, then the Vitamin D mix is most-likely being given to her to encourage the digestion/processing/absorption of other important vitamins/minerals, such as Calcium and Phosphorous, as well as improving immune-system function in a bird who is suffering any nutritional deficiencies. So based on Gracie just being underweight, the treatments that your CAV has chosen of both Milk Thistle and a Vitamin D complex are fantastic, efficient, and safe choices, and will most-likely result in Gracie's appetite, weight, energy levels, and overall-health all increasing very quickly...Now to just get them in her without you losing your hands...

***Yes, putting the liquid Milk Thistle and the Vitamin D complex in fruit juice, oatmeal, grits, bread, pudding, or any other solid foods or drinks that Gracie loves the most usually will work. I myself use orange juice, as they absolutely love it and ONLY GET IT when they have to take medicine, as obviously you should not feed birds any type of Citrus Fruit or Citrus Fruit Juice, due to it's promotion of the absorption of Iron they ingest in their food, which quickly leads to Iron Storage Syndrome/Iron Toxicity. So they ONLY get their favorite, Orange Juice, when they have to take a yucky, liquid medicine. ****And Orange Juice covers nasty medication-taste, especially if it's bitter, better than anything else due to it's acidity and sourness...So if you haven't tried Orange-Juice, I'd give it a shot, as they usually love it, it's something they typically never get, and it covers-up bad flavors very well...

***That said, if even the Orange Juice doesn't work, and nothing else works, then you're in luck, as both Milk Thistle and the Vitamin D complex are available in Powder Formulation, or at least Tablet Formulation!!! Since Gracie is only getting .2ml total, that equates to an extremely small amount of powder, even with fillers from the tablets...So if you're still having issues with getting Gracie to drink the liquid-formulation of the supplements, it's not worth "ruining your relationship with her", that breaks my heart for you, you're such a good daddy...So simply talk to your CAV and tell them that you'd like to try to give Gracie both the Milk Thistle and the Vitamin D complex in powder form, or at least in a tablet form that can be easily crushed and measured-out to the correct doses (also will most-likely be much cheaper than the liquid form too)...Then all you have to do is sprinkle the powder-formulation of the 2 supplements right onto either Gracie's regular, daily pellets or seed-mix, or her regular veggies, or her regular fruit, etc. The powder-formulations don't taste anything like the liquid-formulations do, in-fact they typically don't have any "taste" or flavor at all, and Gracie probably won't even notice that it's sprinkled on top of her food...
 

LaManuka

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Hej Dave, how is your beautiful Gracie going? Any news on those tests you were having done? Hope she is on the mend!
 
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TiredOldMan

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Hej Dave, how is your beautiful Gracie going? Any news on those tests you were having done? Hope she is on the mend!

No problem now getting the meds down. A big THANKS again to everyone.:smile015:

Her Majesty seems to have mostly forgiven her subject for his stupidity. So it would seem that I'm not going to be banished to the dungeon after all. Well at least not this time.:D

No word on additional tests yet. This place requires my vet to send a referral I can't make the appointment on my own. He hasn't let me know but I'm sure he has her best interest at heart.

She hasn't gained any weight but her weight is more stable. She has been at 502 for three straight days. I consider that a good sign.

Thank You for asking.:)
 

LaManuka

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Thank you for the update and it’s great your relationship is on the improve too. I’ve had to medicate a budgie and a cockatiel by syringe before and I certainly wouldn’t want to do it with anything bigger! All the suggestions about what to mix it with were great and I shall be storing them in my memory banks for future use!

Keep us posted if/when the other results come back won’t you:)
 

EllenD

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I'm glad you and Gracie have come to an understanding, lol...

Milk Thistle is an amazing supplement/natural medicine, and it's been proven through controlled-studies that it does actually not only cleanse/detox the liver in most-all living creatures, but it also encourages the regeneration of healthy liver tissue. It's amazing stuff, and it has few, if any side-effects. I know many bird and Bearded Dragon owners who give it to their pets every single day, and it's actually turned their health around 180 degrees. Many Bearded Dragons unfortunately suffer from issues with their Uric Acid levels, and the end-result is usually a life-long diagnosis of Gout, where the Dragon must take Allopurinol every day for the rest of their lives. And as a result, the health of both their kidneys and their livers suffers and ultimately fails. The other issue with many species of reptiles is that people feed them horrible diets, as many refuse to feed live insects, or they only feed very fatty live insects, such as Wax Worms, ButterWorms, Mealworms, etc. And in both of these situations, simply putting the reptile on a daily dose of Milk-Thistle does wonders for their liver health, and their over-all nutritional health as well. So hopefully Gracie will continue to not only increase, but eventually normalize and become constant, after being on both the Milk Thistle and the Vitamin D complex for a few months...
 

Laurasea

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How is Gracie? Any more testing done? I'm glad the milk thistle is working, where do you get that?
 

noodles123

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It worked for mine....I was shocked..especially after a non- CAV (family friend who is a vet) shook his head at me when I asked about it for a dog who was having liver issues...GUESS WHO HAS A SUCCESS STORY WITH HER BIRD YOU NON-CAV! lol
 
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TiredOldMan

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How is Gracie? Any more testing done? I'm glad the milk thistle is working, where do you get that?


I appreciate you asking about her.:)

Gracie seems to be doing good. Energy is up and she's gaining weight(fingers crossed). Her Highness has apparently forgiven her subject in full for lousy medicating. She looks forward to her mashed potatoes and meds now and will take them from a spoon or from her pellet cup.

No news about the other test yet. The doc acted like it would take sometime to get a referral.

She is on a mixture of Hepasil and Biomega cooked up by the doc. Hepasil is mostly milk thistle extract and Biomega is mostly fish oils and vitamin D. At least that is what I have been led to believe.

Milk thistle extract is available where supplements are sold and Amazon has it. Be sure and get the liquid or at least that's my opinion.

Thank you again
 

noodles123

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How is Gracie? Any more testing done? I'm glad the milk thistle is working, where do you get that?


I appreciate you asking about her.:)

Gracie seems to be doing good. Energy is up and she's gaining weight(fingers crossed). Her Highness has apparently forgiven her subject in full for lousy medicating. She looks forward to her mashed potatoes and meds now and will take them from a spoon or from her pellet cup.

No news about the other test yet. The doc acted like it would take sometime to get a referral.

She is on a mixture of Hepasil and Biomega cooked up by the doc. Hepasil is mostly milk thistle extract and Biomega is mostly fish oils and vitamin D. At least that is what I have been led to believe.

Milk thistle extract is available where supplements are sold and Amazon has it. Be sure and get the liquid or at least that's my opinion.

Thank you again


Alcohol free is also important, as tinctures often are suspended in alcohol!
 

LaManuka

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Mmmm alcohol.... :)

But seriously TOM thanx for the updates. Dontcha just hate waiting for stinkin’ test results!!
 

AmyMyBlueFront

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And a Normal Grey Cockatiel named BB who came home with me on 5/20/2016.
Well T.O.M. you may recall I have to give oral meds to Amy for the rest of his life because of heart issues :( We all know that a way to any birdies heart is thru their stomachs:D
I'm lucky to the point that I can hold him in one hand on his back,and when I put the syringe to his beaky he'd try to bite the tip then it was SQUIRT! HOWEVER..that lasted for only ONE application! A dumb bunny he is not! He would bite the SIDE of the syringe,or KICK at the body of it and make me squirt him in his face or knock it out of my hand.
Now I wait 'til he's hungry..usually in the am or before bed and I'd squirt his .11ml into a very small piece of bread and drop it in his nummy bowl.
If I tried to give it to him directly,he'd take it then try to fling it at me :mad:
If I just drop it in his bowl and walk away...he's right there noshing on it and eats 99% coz he is hungry and doesn't give a rats you-know-what that's in it.


Try to give Gracie something she really likes when she is hungry.




Jim
 

EllenD

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You can buy Milk Thistle in either liquid or powder form in pretty much any drug store, grocery store, health food store, department store (like Walmart), or online. It's taken by a lot of people now who suffer from Hepatitis and other forms of Liver Disease, so it's available anywhere now.
 

freia

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have you ever try in your loving pets the CBD oil? CBD Oil is from the flower of Cannabis. Cannabis now is known as an alternative medicine such as can relief pain not for us humans but also in our pets! CBD oil for our
pets can treat health issues such as digestive or upset tummy, inflammation,
joint pain or even allergies. I tried this in my dog, I gave it when I know he faced a stressful situation such as we're going to our vet. I gave it
30-60 minutes prior. by doing some researching, I came across this article
blimburnseeds.com/, through this, I have a lot of
information and testimonials from cannabis user
 

ChristaNL

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Freia: I did consider it- but could never find the parotsafe dosage or the right oil.

You can't just take the dog-dosage and scale it down for parrots -- their bodies work completely different (metabolism etc.).
D. the CAG was in constant pain, so yes I HAVE been looking.

CBDoil is like many other products out there in so many variations it is hard to find one that actually contains enough usefull ingredients anyway - most of them are about as effective as water.
 

EllenD

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Senegal Parrot named "Kane"; Yellow-Sided Green Cheek Conure named "Bowie"; Blue Quaker Parrot named "Lita Ford"; Cockatiel named "Duff"; 8 American/English Budgie Hybrids; Ringneck Dove named "Dylan"
I'm a big proponent of using Cannabis/Cannabis products for medicinal/health purposes, for both people and for animals. There is absolutely no reason that it should not be used medicinally, and used widespread, as it can help people with Glaucoma see, it can help people who are going through Chemotherapy not be nauseous and keep them from vomiting, it can help people with AIDS-Wasting Syndrome, it provides people who suffer from agonizing, chronic pain caused by any number of reasons find relief (and safe relief with little to no chance of physical addiction), etc. When drugs like Morphine, Fentanyl, Dilaudid, Demerol, Oxycodone, Xanex, Ativan, etc. are legal and have been legal and widely used for decades and decades, it's pathetically stupid on our part as human beings to not employ the use of Marijuana and other Cannabinoid-related drugs for medicinal purposes...As a recovering Opiate addict myself (due to constant use of legally prescribed Opiate drugs for years and years due to serious health issues), I wish to God that I had been prescribed Marijuana for my pain-relief rather than the never-ending supply of strong prescription Opiates, which literally took over every aspect of my entire life and my being...actually, Opiates eventually get a hold of your soul...

****All of that being said, when it comes to giving any type of drug or plant/substance that possesses drug-qualities to birds, we have to be extremely careful because of how sensitive they are to them...As mentioned already above, any drugs, nutritional supplements, botanicals, etc. that have not been "approved" for use in birds specifically can be dangerous, if not lethal...And to me, "approved" must AT LEAST mean that a certain substance/drug/plant/supplement/etc. has been widely used in Avian Health/Medicine for a good period of time and with some frequency and regularity, a dosage/frequency that has proven both safe and effective to give to birds for the treatment of specific conditions has been established, and all of the common, seldom, and rare side-effects of it's use in birds at certain dosage-thresholds has been established and antidotes/over-dose treatments also established.

We as people have the FDA and the DEA to tell us what is safe and what's not (being very general here)...And even with laws governing clinical trials, billions of dollar every year in research, etc., people are still harmed and killed by "prescription" drugs every single day in this country. So with birds, when you're stepping into the unknown, you cannot just assume that treatment with Cannabis/Cannabis compounds/extracts/derivatives/etc. is going to be safe either acutely nor over-time.

Bottom-line is we have to be extremely giving ANY "natural" supplements, extracts, medicinal plants, etc. So I'm not sure that I would YET endorse the use of CBD Oil in parrots, as we have no idea what the long-term dangers for our birds might end-up being...And the key word in that statement is "Yet"...
 
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TiredOldMan

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No more news from her doctor. Haven't heard about the referral for a sonogram either.

She is taking her meds as long as it is delivered on a small thin piece of egg. I am looking at possible alternatives that are lower in protein. I had high hopes that things were getting better as her weight has been going up. However Monday and Tuesday her weight dropped to 502 and Tuesday and Wednesday she was back up to 515. She has been as high as 525 recently.

It might be my scale that is giving erratic readings but I have checked it with a 500g test weight.

It's really nice of you to inquire about her!:)

Thank You
 

Laurasea

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Of course I worry about our flock mates! Have you been doing the probiotics? One of the off things that's more common than people think is giardia, has to be checked in a wet mount fecal... I hope you find some answeres and she gets all they eat healthy!
Edit: ( you are probably aware of this but thought I'd add)Common Illnesses In African Grey Parrots
Hypocalcaemia & Vitamin D deficiency. One condition common to African Greys is hypocalcaemia, a syndrome associated with low calcium levels. ...
Feather problems. There are a variety of feather related problems that can affect African Greys. ...
Weight loss. ...
Liver disease. ...
Conclusion.
 
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TiredOldMan

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Gracie is on Harrison's High Potency which has extra calcium among other things. I also collect my egg shells, bake them, and powder them in a coffee grinder that I only use for that and spices(mostly dried chilies). I sprinkle a little on her veggies once a week.

Her meds are a mixture of milk thistle extract and fish oils which are high in vitamin D. I also get her outside weather permitting.

I have only been providing BeneBac+ once a week but I will start giving a reduced portion every other day or as Ellen does once a day.

She really looks good. Her beak, feet, nails, and feathers are beautiful. She has a healthy appetite, plenty of energy, bright eyes, a wicked sense of humor, and takes good care of herself. The only worry is that she is under weight and isn't making any meaningful or lasting gains.

I will talk to the doctor around Christmas or when I take Anakin in.

BTW would you happen to know what tests I should ask to have run on a U2 who barbers and plucks his feathers?

Any and all advice is appreciated.;)

Thanks Again
 

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