Green headed macaws?

[BirdSquawk]

Are these mutations, or are they thier own species? I would post a picture, but it wont let me.:red:

 

[WharfRat]

never heard of one called that, but there are more than a few out there that are "green headed" but have other names

 

[MonicaMc]

I'm guessing hybrids from the lack of information... at least, with the assumption that the macaws have green heads but the rest of the body is a different color. Case in point, the following macaw, Chaz. He's assumed to be a B&G x Patagonian conure *OR* Red Front Macaw hybrid - however, there are no "Maui Sunset" (B&G x RFM) hybrids like him.

Blue & Gold x Patagonian - Chaz | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Blue & Gold x Patagonian - Chaz | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


If not hybrid, well there are several green macaws... the ones I can think of off the top of my head include Military, Buffons, Hahns, Noble, Illigers, Yellow Collared and Severe's - not counting the Red Front.

 

[plax]

Case in point, the following macaw, Chaz. He's assumed to be a B&G x Patagonian conure *OR* Red Front Macaw hybrid - however, there are no "Maui Sunset" (B&G x RFM) hybrids like him.

Wow! Chaz is a bit bizarre looking. He almost looks photoshopped :11:

 

[JJones1719]

They appear to be a hybrid, B&G plus Military. Thanks Joe

 

[plax]

Well, I have a Military. I don't see any Military in Chaz; he looks more like a RFM/B&G mix to me.

 

[MonicaMc]

One thing that's unique about Chaz is that he barely has a cheek patch that is common in B&G macaws. His face is mostly covered in feathers.

If you will, compare him to other B&G hybrids.

miligold macaw - Flickr: Search
maui sunset macaw - Flickr: Search
bluffons macaw - Flickr: Search

Here's something else that is unique to Chaz.... take another look at his photos and notice how he has the tear drop eye ring and darker coloring around his face. Here's the links again for Chaz

Blue & Gold x Patagonian - Chaz | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Blue & Gold x Patagonian - Chaz | Flickr - Photo Sharing!



Then look at the color of a patagonian conure's head and the shape of the eye ring

Patagonian conure | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Patagonian Conure 1 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Scuttle | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Conure de Patagonie (Cyanoliseus patagonus) | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


And photos of a patagonian conure and a red front macaw

If you're NOISY & ya know it... | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
RFM x PC comparison pt. 1 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
RFM x PC comparison pt. 2 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
My NOISY girls | Flickr - Photo Sharing!



Unfortunately, there is no identity/parentage test for parrots to determine what they are, and the owner of Chaz has not been able to locate his breeder... so at this time, it is unclear as to what he is beyond a B&G hybrid.


And if it's of any interest, here are hybrid blue throated x military macaw hybrids, which further proves that Chaz really appears to be one of a kind!

http://www.corrientesloropark.com.ar/ventaavesloros/compraramazonas1.jpg

 

[noblemacaw]

I had no idea a Patagonian conure and a blue and gold macaw could even mate. It has been many years since I have been a Patty up close but I think there is rather a significant size difference between the two. Can they successfully mate?

I remember a comment a friend made to me. He called Red Fronted Macaws giant conures. I didn't know to be insulted or not. LOL

 

[plax]

Yeah, Chaz doesn't look like a Maui Sunset at all. And he appears smaller than I would expect one to be, especially next to that BFA. So maybe one of his parents is in fact a Patagonian Conure. But I didn't know that Conures and Macaws were able to successfully interbreed.

 

[MonicaMc]

Well, we really don't know if Chaz is in fact a patagonian hybrid, but there have been several mini macaw x conure hybrids.


Hahns x Blue Crown
(constantly hear of them, but have yet to see photos of one)



Hahns x Sun (unconfirmed - confirmed photos are on another forum)

Noble x Mitred

Popular Conures and Their Breeding Habits | Voren's Aviaries Inc

Green Conure Group

The first group, and the largest in body size of those commonly available, is the green conure group. These are classified scientifically under the genus name Aratinga. (The macaws are classified under the name Ara, and these large green conures are, as the name implies, very closely related to the macaws. [highlight]This relationship has been demonstrated by the fact that hybrid offspring from a cross between a noble macaw and a mitred conure have produced fertile eggs.)[/highlight] This group consists of the blue-crowned, mitred, cherry-headed, red-fronted, white-eyed, Finch’s, green and red-throated conures. The blue crown is a bit afield of this group (toward the macaws), but its breeding habits and seasons are very close to the rest of this group.

Hahns x Nanday (and supposedly Jenday)

Illiger x Nanday (black beaked/head bird)
Blue-winged Macaw (Primolius maracana) X Nanday Parakeet (Nandayus nenday) hybrid | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Blue-winged Macaw (Primolius maracana) X Nanday Parakeet (Nandayus nenday) hybrid | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Blue-winged Macaw (Primolius maracana) X Nanday Parakeet (Nandayus nenday) hybrid | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Blue-winged Macaw (Primolius maracana) X Nanday Parakeet (Nandayus nenday) hybrid | Flickr - Photo Sharing!




And far as size differences... cockatiel x galah
Galah x Cockatiel - Galatiel | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Galah x Cockatiel - Galatiel | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
World first, galah breeds with cockatiel | Talking Birds <---video on this page



And another interesting one.... scarlet chested parakeet x princess parrot
Scarlet-Chest Parrot breeds with Princess Parrot | Talking Birds



Not to mention rosella x king parrot hybrids.... or lory x king parrot! So stranger things have happened...

 

[plax]

Here's something to consider as far as how close Conures and Macaws may be related...

When much of the biologic classification data within the taxonomic chart was established there were no DNA examination methods possible to confirm or deny how close the various species may, or may not be genetically linked. This means that many of the classification decisions had to be based predominantly upon observation of characteristics. The problem is that conclusions based upon such characteristic observation alone are quite prone to error. The effect, of course, is twofold: 1) the taxonomic structure likely contains plenty of mis-classifications, and 2) many genuinely close connections among separate species most certainly haven't yet been made.

 

[Turquoise]

I have a couple of hybrid crosses between a Blue & Gold and a Scarlet macaw which is commonly called a Catalina. I can safely say that Chaz's eye patch is totally different than my 2 boy's which are typical of the B&G parenting. To me, Chaz does appear to look like he has the Patagonian Conure cross in him. Whatever he is crossed with, it has created a very unique & interesting macaw.

 

[Alwese]

.....So stranger things have happened...

After seeing a horse crossed with a zebra, I'll believe anything can happen. I thought what made a macaw a macaw was the face patches of skin. A conure lacks face patches entirely. It is a surprise to me that they would even hybridize. Back to the origional thread, Maybe you are talking about the 'blue-head' macaw, which for some reason has never shown up in the pet trade. This is what one of these looks like. Click pics to enlarge.

 

[plax]

I thought what made a macaw a macaw was the face patches of skin.

Don't forget about Hyacinths. They merely have eye rings of skin with relatively narrow skin strips bordering their lower mandibles.

A conure lacks face patches entirely.

Some have them, though. Have a look at the aforementioned Patagonian Conure. As you'll notice, it has bare facial skin patches.

 

[MonicaMc]

Maybe you are talking about the 'blue-head' macaw, which for some reason has never shown up in the pet trade.

You know what... I thought so too... but this ad says otherwise. I thought they were only for sale to other breeders, but I just found out about this one a few days ago...

Blue-headed Macaw For Sale In OH :: BirdBreeders.com


~ $8,000 for a blue headed macaw... and there are at least two breeders of them within the USA.


Here's the other I know of... and it seems price might be at $12,500?
BLUE HEADED MACAWS

A conure lacks face patches entirely.

Some have them, though. Have a look at the aforementioned Patagonian Conure. As you'll notice, it has bare facial skin patches.

Actually, all conures have a patch of bare skin around the eyes, known as the eye-ring. This is from the Pyrrhura conures (green cheek, black capped, maroon bellied, pearly, crimon bellied, etc) on up to the Aratingas (sun, jenday, blue crown, mitred, etc) and the other conure species (Nanday, Patagonian, Golden, Thick billed, Austral, Slender Billed... although the last two really don't appear to have as much bare skin as the rest).

 

[BirdSquawk]

Perhaps the green headed is a lesser known species of macaw, i really think it is its own species. I just got an idea, i'll go look it up in my feild guide to parrots of the world! Be right back!

 

[BirdSquawk]

I just looked it up, and it turn out the blue headed macaw is its own species, P. couloni. There is very little known about them. According to the book, it lives in a very isolated part of Brazil and Peru, CITES listed them as Appendix 1, and and is very quiet, living in pair or small groups.

 

[Featheredsamurai]

I think he looks just like a Patagonian conure crossed with a blue and gold, he has equal characteristics of both birds it's so amazing! You should contact parrot researchers, or at least your local avian certified vet to see what they think. If he is a unknown hybrid they may be interested in knowing about his existence for research/genetic purposes

 

[plax]

It's possible they're wrong on the Blue & Gold, too. Perhaps one of Chaz's parents was a Blue-throated Macaw instead of a B&G?? He sure doesn't appear very large next to that BFA. But I have to agree that his head closely resembles that of a Patagonian Conure. So his size could be attributable to the Patagonian Conure parent alone, OR partially to a BTM parent as well. It's all guesswork, though.

 

[MonicaMc]

I just looked it up, and it turn out the blue headed macaw is its own species, P. couloni. There is very little known about them. According to the book, it lives in a very isolated part of Brazil and Peru, CITES listed them as Appendix 1, and and is very quiet, living in pair or small groups.

Glad you were able to figure out the species!!!

I think he looks just like a Patagonian conure crossed with a blue and gold, he has equal characteristics of both birds it's so amazing! You should contact parrot researchers, or at least your local avian certified vet to see what they think. If he is a unknown hybrid they may be interested in knowing about his existence for research/genetic purposes

I do not own a hybrid, nor have I ever owned one. In other words, Chaz doesn't belong to me. He lives in the UK. I contacted Zoogen here in the USA to ask them if they knew of any parentage testing for parrots, to find out hybrids and such. Unfortunately, they said that no testing like that is available at this time.

The owner of Chaz would love to know, but at the same time, it's just a curiosity. Many people, myself included, have speculated what he is. I've even sent some photos of him to a big time breeder in the USA (assumed hybrid between male B&G and female RFM) as well as a hybrid macaw breeder (also thought same, but then when compared possible parentage to the pure species, said she really didn't know).

If I recall right, the owner knows the general location of where Chaz may have been born, and did try to find breeder, but only came to dead ends.

It's possible they're wrong on the Blue & Gold, too. Perhaps one of Chaz's parents was a Blue-throated Macaw instead of a B&G?? He sure doesn't appear very large next to that BFA. But I have to agree that his head closely resembles that of a Patagonian Conure. So his size could be attributable to the Patagonian Conure parent alone, OR partially to a BTM parent as well. It's all guesswork, though.

That's true, Plax.... although, I think Chaz's weight is more than a BTM could account for. BTM was considered, but then decided against. (don't remember why) If you'd like, I can ask what his last weigh in was?

Did find some BTM & B&G photos for comparison.
DSC_3236 mccaws t | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
preening | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Blue and gold | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
IMG_5971 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!