Issue with dog (and bird)

[Roxy_9_2011]

Hey ya'll, I am going home to my parents for spring break on Tuesday. We have a yellow lab that is 3 yrs old (just turned 3 this month ) and his name is Buster. We adopted him from a shelter and learned about his previous owners just from his reactions and behaviors once we took him home. I am not a licensed psychologist, but he has post traumatic stress disorder from being abused in his previous home (his vet confirmed that he was abused too) I am hoping that anyone here who is also experienced working with dogs can help me out with training him to leave my Roxy alone. My friend told me to put coins in a can and shake it when he gets too near to Roxy....but loud noises would cause more damage psychologically to him I feel. What other ways can I teach him to respect her boundaries? He responds amazingly to dog food (they're equivalent to treats in his mind) and tennis balls. I watch enough episodes of Dog Whisper to know what not to do. So any advice would be soooo appreciated!

P.S. I have brought Roxy home for a weekend already and Buster thought she was a toy and wanted to literally grab her :\

 

[roxynoodle]

You have the additional problem that he is a bird dog breed. I can't offer much advice, but my parents' yellow Lab also tried to eat my Blue Crown. I just finally had to make them let me put their dog outside. Some suggest squirting them with water when they go near the bird, but I don't know if that would further traumatize Buster. Maybe not since Labs tend to like water.

 

[evesta]

I have a small dog, a Cairn terrier that I am very worried about. When the bird is out of the cage the dog will either be outside or the doors will be closed. But I am worried he will fixate on the birds when they are in the cage and scare them although they grew up around 6 small dogs. I plan to use a spray bottle but add a little vinegar because water alone doesn't bother him. I've heard some people say that it is okay, others say no to vinegar but a dog trainer I spoke too said it was fine, you usually only have to do it a few times before they figure it out. As for my old Scotty and fat chihuahua, I'm not as worried about them

 

[vicky2200]

It is likely that he will never be good with birds. Some dogs are and some aren't. In my opinion, it is too dangerous to try to teach a full grown Lab to be nice to a bird. Keep the dog in a separate room when the bird is out of his cage. My Lab mix has never had any interest in my birds. He was over a year old when I discovered that he does great with birds. A friend took Chico (cockatiel) out of his cage even though I told him not to. Our Lab mix ignored him. Since then Chico has sat on the dog and he does great. With our other dogs I exposed them to the birds from a young. They were interested at first but quickly learned that it was a pet and they weren't allowed to eat it.

 

[luvmytooo]

There were a few things mentioned that were spot on ( no pun intended ) Your dog has prey drive , its in the breed ,you cant change it and take it away from him.
But..you can redirect his attention when he shows interest towards the "BIRD CAGE". Never , never , never have your bird out when your dog is in the house ! No exceptions.
Redirecting his attention to some thing else like a toy or something that will keep his interest but nothing that you need to engage him with like a tug or a ball you will need to throw. You dont want to have to play with him everytime he looks towards the cage.
Using compulsion isnt going to "train" his natural prey drive out of him , so I wouldnt suggest that route.
If your dog listens well , say "leave it" and once the dog looks in
another direction away from the bird cage , treat with a food reward , but something higher in value , like left over chicken or steak ,something that he will be sure to work for and eat quickly , not like a dry dog biscuit. After he gets proficient at it , give him verbal and physical praise without the treat .

BUT ......

All this training is still not going to change his attitude towards the bird . If your bird tried to jump down or even just flap its wings , that can cause your dog to lunge at it and the outcome will not be a good one , and you cant blame the dog , you can only blame yourself.

Some dogs dont have as much prey drive as others , they are all individuals , but even with a dog that never payed attention to a bird , you should always be cautious.

Just one more thing , is your dog allowed to chase birds and squirrels outside ?
If so , how would he understand why he cant chase the bird in the house ?

 

[Roxy_9_2011]

Just one more thing , is your dog allowed to chase birds and squirrels outside ?
If so , how would he understand why he cant chase the bird in the house ?

That is a very good point, but this is the weird thing. According to my mom who observes him outside everyday, he does not chase after the squirrels or robins in our backyard. The robins are pulling worms out of the ground and he just walks past them without a care. The dog we had before him would never let that chance go by There has been robins right in front of the sliding door window and Buster didn't even see it according to mom So I don't know what to make of that. But it is totally fine to have Buster outside if I want to bring Roxy out. He likes being out there anyways.

It's just hard knowing there isn't much I can do Since it's not my home, Roxy will have to stay in a bedroom for parts of the day and evening more than she should. But it'll be for her safety.

 

[roxynoodle]

It's just always better to be safe than sorry. A dog may be less predatory overall than a cat, but a large dog can grab and kill a bird in an instant. And they can jump up on the cage and knock it over.

I know, I was getting upset with my parents' dog as this is my house. She wanted to fight with one of my dogs, and then every time the bird spoke she tried to attack it. And she just wasn't very well trained as my mom is too much of a weeny with her animals and can't seem to establish any ground rules with them.

I did have a very big fenced area for the dogs and she got along fine with my German Shepard so I finally just said hey, she needs to go outside with Rutger to keep her company. My mom also has this idea if her dog is outside for more than 5 minutes something awful will happen. But, it was a nice day, and not hot or cold or raining. And my fence was 6 feet high, so that was in my best interest mentally that she go out there for the rest of their visit. And in Ohio we don't have poisonous snakes, scorpions, bobcats or alligators running around like she does in Florida.

 

[evesta]

Yep, I know I can't trust my dog, his prey drive is so high. I have cats and honestly he worries me more because he is so intense and is young too. And I don't expect him to change much so when the birds are out he is outside probably chasing birds, squirrels and lord knows what. lol My only concern is if he is in the room with the cage. I don't mind if he shows interest in the birds but if he gets a certain look of fixation that is when he is getting the spray!!! I know my dog and positive reinforcement is best usually but there are times Cairn terriers just can't be trusted, they are very stubborn and independent, just like my old Westie. Part of the reason I love them, and part of the reason they drive me nuts!

 

[Roxy_9_2011]

I am home now and just wanted to give a small update. Roxy's cage is in the office and Buster is not allowed in there at all. He wasn't before either. A couple of you mentioned trying a spray bottle with water. I tried using it to keep him away from the (closed) door of the office and Roxy's stand (without her on it). It so far has worked very well and does not over-traumatize him. (thank God! ) My biggest fear was using a negative consequence on him and he being more traumatized. So right now I am teaching him boundaries and it's working slowly but surely. I for sure will never leave him alone anywhere near Roxy (whether she's in a cage or not) Thanks for your support and helpful advice!

 

[luvmytooo]

You are right about negative consequence. That's why I didnt mention that.
Some dogs can react much worse then before.
Using compulsion can also cause a dog to become aggresive , it all sepends on the dog though.

 

[luvmytooo]

Oh yes , teaching boundaries is a wonderful idea
I'm glad Roxy has her own room , much less worry

 

[lizardsmells]

Ok, I don't know how much help this will be, but I have 3 rescue dogs and 4 rescue cats and none of them bother Kazi. They actually run from him. Granted, he's not afraid of them and has nailed a few of them, but that wasn't always the case.

When he came here I made sure he got fed first at meal times. If I was handing out treats, he got his first. This shows the dogs that he ranks higher than they do (I did the same thing with the cats so the dogs wouldn't bother them either). I have a lab, a German Shorthaired Pointer mix and a chihuahua mix. The chi mix was easy, she's not much bigger than Kazi and a total wuss. I was pretty sure the lab would be ok since he's always been pretty unshakable. I was *really* worried about our GSP mix, because that is a bird dog, they are bred to flush and retrieve birds. Surprisingly enough, she was the one with the least interest in Kazi, while my lab stared utterly fixated for the first couple of weeks Kazi was home. Maybe it was curiosity and not 'how can I get that and play with it and rip it apart to find the squeaker', but I never took any chances.

I still don't. Kazi rarely gets left alone if he's not in his cage. If I do leave him alone it's never so far I can't hear him climbing down his play gym. He loves to walk around the house on the floor, but I insist on chaperoning when he does. But the animals leave him alone and give him a wide berth when their paths cross.

Basically you have to communicate to the dog that the bird is pack, not prey, and absolutely off limits 100%. I wouldn't advise shaking anything loud or anything else that could frighten both dog and bird. I would use this as a time to refine the 'leave it' command. My lab got a lot of practice with 'leave it' when Kazi first got here and praise when he did 'leave it' and turn his attention elsewhere, even if for a second. Eventually he learned the bird wasn't a fun new toy. The other day he learned the bird is a jerk, though, when Kazi calmly, and for no reason I could see since the lab wasn't even paying him any mind, walked over to the dog and nailed him a good one on the foot. Poor pupper just held up his foot and gave the bird a look that said, "What the hell, man?" which is pretty much exactly what I said.

 

[Roxy_9_2011]

Thanks for sharing! I am really trying to use the "leave it" command. It is already starting to work a tiny bit. The difficult part is that I am here for such a short period of time with Roxy, that it's hard to get that consistent training with him. Buster is also doing the fixated stare at Roxy and I try to get him out of it but it seems like a lost cause. Good to hear yours stopped after a while, hopefully Buster will too. Another issue is my parents don't take training seriously enough for Buster. They spoil him with more toys than I can count and have spent any vet bills necessary for him. But when it comes to training....that's another story

Currently Buster still really wants Roxy and they are never in the same room unless there are 2 humans there as well

 

[roxynoodle]

Your parents sound like my parents. Both their cat and dog have 60 toys each (I'm not exaggerating), but training is something that just hasn't happened. Until that dog got old, which she is now, she would knock my mom down and drag her across the yard with the leash and my mom let her. I was worried for a few years about my mom getting hurt as she is petite and up there in years now. I would just say, mom, it's a good thing you never wanted a horse!