Mr. Bitey Bird

[JerseyWendy]

I'm melting here! Oh PLEASE share him with us (a lot) more often....pretty please, with Monty on top? :heart:

 

[Anansi]

What beautiful pics of Monty! I'm with Wendy, show him off more often!

 

[Ginnybird]

Anansi and Scooter, I appreciate the way you put it.

I see so much over various media saying never to force a bird. It's easy to slip into these absolutes when trying to help others, but they don't often hold up to each circumstance. "Never force a bird" isn't as good an absolute as "never hit a bird." I don't see a reason to ever do the latter, but the former should be broken when needed for the bird's safety, at the least. I think these statements can confuse things. (And when I say force, I mean "to make the bird do something he or she doesn't want to do, even if it's for a good reason." ) To say that the line for the acceptable use of force is developed individually, with human and bird respecting each other, is a little easier to navigate, even if it's not a hard guideline.

Personally, I don't always listen to her (Ginny's) complaints either. If I did, I'd never set any boundaries. As I see it, learning boundaries is to her long-term psychological health what a good diet is to her long-term physical health. Without them, the little gal would waddle right up to my shoulder whenever she wanted, and likely on to other more potential dangerous things that she's currently diverted from by the grace of toys and interesting environments. I ignore all her growls, for instance, that come from her being stopped from doing something she shouldn't, based on boundaries.

Speaking for myself, I've seen a number of mentions of birds rejecting harnesses when the process was rushed, and people needing to start over. Even the DVD that came with the Aviator harness mentioned young birds (which mine is) accepting it at first, and rebelling against it later. Of course this doesn't mean that happens with everyone -- both the people and the birds are different. But it gives me a lot of caution. I'm trying to find the best path for magirl, for life -- as I made the choice to bring in a baby, I've felt hyper-aware that I'm training her for a life with others that extends beyond my own. I hope to bring her, eventually, to have successful relationships beyond our own sweet ones with her (mine, my BF's, my best friend's, and as many strangers as may safely handle her for socializing).

Anyway, all that is just to say I've been carrrrreful, questioning, and thoughtful, especially in any questions of negative reinforcement and force use. They get used, but minimally, situationally, and with thought.

I had just hoped to throw in a couple brainstormy thoughts, rather than spring a digression into questions about the use of force with birds, but I'm glad it's brought such an interesting discussion!

 

[Anansi]

Such discussions are quite valuable, I believe. We should always be looking to improve our rapport with our birds, and talking with other parronts about different methods is a good resource for that. There's always something new to be learned, and you never know which conversation will yield something that might prove invaluable to you and your relationship with your bird.

 

[Birdman666]

For example, if someone inadvertently touches him when he does not expect it (or doesn't want to be touched), he starts to growl, and may lunge. I have been trying to desensitize him to having his wings touched and placing him on his back (for harness training) and this usually gets me a few good warning chomps (not always, but often - growling is guaranteed 100%). Heck, if he's comfortable on his stand or with someone, he has no issues in growling and/or lunging at someone walking by.

He got startled and he reacted. That's all this is. Startle training reduces this. So does age and familiarity with people.

And excuse me but Amazons growl all the time... it's often their first reaction to anything... recoil in horror and growl at it. Ten minutes later "that's mine." and growl at you for touching it...

IT'S WHAT THEY DO...

 

[Birdman666]

I've read a number of articles (debated) regarding parrot dominance, and am familiar with aggressive dominance in dogs. Monty's behavior does remind me of a dog in some ways (testing everyone to see what he can get away with), and he does treat everyone differently depending on (what look like) how he views their place in the family hierarchy.

Count me as one of the debaters when it comes to parrot dominance theories...

I think they are a myth. Height dominance especially has been debunked time and time again, yet people still think it's gospel. And the myth is perpetuated.

Amazons are "opinionated" birds. They crush hard on the people they like, and the people they don't like can piss off (NOW PLEASE) or face the line of death dance, and other assorted displays of displeasure when they come close.

 

[Birdman666]

Well, that does sound forced to me, despite growling, even if there was no bite that broke the skin -- but happily he forgot about it. (Or am I missing something?) Ginny hasn't broken my skin. But I'd prefer for her not to feel she needs to do so to get her point across.

Very few amazons will EVER put a harness on without growling. They're not keen on the process of putting it in place. Once you get it on them, they are usually fine with it.

And then getting it off them ends up being the same sort of struggle.

It ranks right up there with trimming toenails... GOOD GOD YOU'D THINK THE POOR BIRD WAS DYING...

 

[Birdman666]

Enjoying the discussion guys.

Wendy, appreciate your approach on this. Reminds me a bit of kids sometimes. When toddlers, they can cry kicking and screaming all the way to somewhere where they think they don't want to go, then have the most fun they've ever had. Next time, they don't kick and scream.

Yep. That's a zon alright. I'm not gonna and you can't make me. Okay you made me but I swear I won't like it. Okay, it's fun... Okay, it's really really fun...

No we're not going back.