My budgies beak? Help?

[Kyuutbirb]

So to give some context, i got my budgie from my mothers coworker after it flew into his house trough a open window. When i got the budgie it was infected with scaly face mites and after some time treating it with lip cream (idk what its called) the budgie seemed to have healed.(except for a spot wich i ignored since it looked like it was a normal thing, but it started growing and spreading slowly and i didn't notice it) But lately the bird has had some lumps on its beak (from the spreading spot that i mentioned earlier) and im worried that they came back, or that it might be some tumor. I started applying the lip stuff on its beak again for the past few days but im afraid that i wont be able to save the bird this time. Do any of you have any tips on dealing with this? Aside from going to a vet, since i couldn't find one specialising in parrots. I did go to the vets but the treatment didn't help.

(I don't know how to upload images)

 

[Kyuutbirb]

By the way, it has a dirty cage the bird doesn't use it anymore and i don't clean it. Could it be a breeding ground for the infection?

 

[Amsterdam]

Scaly mites will almost never disappear fully with out medicine my budgie hayat had the same problem i got her some medicine and that fixed the problem. Do you have a picture of your bird? Get her to a vet ASAP or get her the medicine and keep your cage clean.

 

[Kyuutbirb]

Scaly mites will almost never disappear fully with out medicine my budgie hayat had the same problem i got her some medicine and that fixed the problem. Do you have a picture of your bird? Get her to a vet ASAP or get her the medicine and keep your cage clean.

idk how to reply on this site but i hope this works. i will clean the cage thank you a lot, i will try to get to a vet in another city as well.

I took a photo it isn't detailed and the small yellow spots are just seeds stuck on the treatment and after it ate . The lump grows and falls off then grows again im not sure its scaly face mites anymore due to this. The bird is still playful and its behavior hasn't changed

 

[Laurasea]

The pictures are blurry, a female budgies get brown stuff on their nares (noses) that us normal. But again I can't tell by this picture. Cleaning the cage is a must, use dilute vinegar and water wipe everything, then go back and wipe with water and dry. As for the chest ??? Does this budgie pluck???? You might have other issues going on... Amsterdam went to heroic efferts to treat and care for his rescue budgies, despite difficulty in finding appropriate veterinarian help. Where do you live? Also I would stop useing the lip stuff, having food and dirt stick to that is not helping your bird. Budgies usually will eat and nibble leafy greens, like romaine lettuce, bok choy, spinach, and other leafy greens like mustard leaf, and other lettuce other than ice burg which isn't nutritious. Usually will nibble broccoli, and bell peppers seeds ok to from the peppers.

 

[noodles123]

I hope EllenD chimes in on this one. She knows a lot about this sort of thing.

Without typing a novel:
1. Do you have a CAV (certified avian vet) near you and if so, when were you there last? Has your bird ever had routine blood-work done?
2. Who prescribed the cream?
3. I would never start a treatment without having first spoken to a vet (unless that was literally impossible for some reason).

 

[Scott]

Welcome to the forums, thanks for rescuing this budgie!

A certified avian vet or equivalent is needed to properly assess and treat your bird. They are not available in every area, so you may need to travel a bit. The problem with "exotic" vets is they lack proper training and equipment to be of reliable use. If the problem is Scaly Mites, treatment is reliable.

This locator may be of help:https://www.aav.org/search/custom.asp?id=1803
Might try a Google search by specifying your state or selecting local areas.

 

[Kyuutbirb]

Welcome to the forums, thanks for rescuing this budgie!

A certified avian vet or equivalent is needed to properly assess and treat your bird. They are not available in every area, so you may need to travel a bit. The problem with "exotic" vets is they lack proper training and equipment to be of reliable use. If the problem is Scaly Mites, treatment is reliable.

This locator may be of help:https://www.aav.org/search/custom.asp?id=1803
Might try a Google search by specifying your state or selecting local areas.

Thanks you!

 

[Kyuutbirb]

I hope EllenD chimes in on this one. She knows a lot about this sort of thing.

Without typing a novel:
1. Do you have a CAV (certified avian vet) near you and if so, when were you there last? Has your bird ever had routine blood-work done?
2. Who prescribed the cream?
3. I would never start a treatment without having first spoken to a vet (unless that was literally impossible for some reason).

Thank you!, I think i do have a CAV nearby but they only know stuff about big birds like chickens and turkeys. i already took the budgie there and they gave me a blue liquid to rub on its beak and some pills. I put the pills in its water but stopped since the water got moldy after a few hours and i did not know how to put it in the water as to not make it moldy. The blue stuff is still on its beak, bellow the layer of transparent lipstick
The internet prescribed the cream, i found some tips online a year ago about treating scaly beak mites by putting some some petroleum jelly on the affected area to suffocate the mites till they die. After i could not find petroleum jelly i realized that transparent lipstick is made out of petroleum jelly so i used that.

 

[noodles123]

Putting medication in water is never a good idea, as it is very difficult to monitor how much (if any) the bird is taking in. It also can cause a bird to stop drinking its water if the taste or color is upsetting to them.
If you must sneak medication, I would mix it in with a small amount of preferred, wet food (such as plain oatmeal, sweetened with mashed bananas). That way, you know they have eaten it all.

Are you sure that the vet is a CAV? It is odd that they would only know large farm birds..

Did you call them to ask about the petroleum jelly (even if they aren't a CAV, the internet isn't always a safe bet)?
Did you consult with the vet before stopping the pills? You must always finish a medication's course (unless advised to do otherwise by a doctor or vet)....If you do not, you can actually make things much worse...
Also, are you sure that the water was molding? A few hours is nothing...I have a hard time believing that visible mold could germinate in that amount of time.
Finally, what other ingredients are there in this transparent lipstick? There are specific creams out there for scaly-mites and I haven't heard of this petroleum jelly method (it may be legit, but it makes me very nervous, as petroleum is a chemical and it could easily clog the bird's nares)...In addition to my concerns about the petroleum, I worry about the additives in the transparent lipstick....Cosmetics (even lipstick) often contain unsafe chemicals (even for people). Additionally, just because something is safe for people, does not mean it is safe for birds.


Info I found:

https://www.merckvetmanual.com/bird...-of-birds/injuries-and-accidents-of-pet-birds
"Do not use salves, ointments, petroleum jelly, or other thick or oily substances on birds without veterinary recommendation."


I see where there are some sources saying that petroleum jelly can treat the issue, but they don't appear to be very reputable...Again, I could be wrong, but I think a vet needs to be involved (preferably one with parrot experience who is a CAV).

 

[Kyuutbirb]

The pictures are blurry, a female budgies get brown stuff on their nares (noses) that us normal. But again I can't tell by this picture. Cleaning the cage is a must, use dilute vinegar and water wipe everything, then go back and wipe with water and dry. As for the chest ??? Does this budgie pluck???? You might have other issues going on... Amsterdam went to heroic efferts to treat and care for his rescue budgies, despite difficulty in finding appropriate veterinarian help. Where do you live? Also I would stop useing the lip stuff, having food and dirt stick to that is not helping your bird. Budgies usually will eat and nibble leafy greens, like romaine lettuce, bok choy, spinach, and other leafy greens like mustard leaf, and other lettuce other than ice burg which isn't nutritious. Usually will nibble broccoli, and bell peppers seeds ok to from the peppers.

Thank you! Im sorry about the photos, i am bad at taking pictures. I don't know what gender my budgie is since it has a light blue cere but displays female mating behaviour. I think it plucks from stress, but i cant fix the stress right now, I think it might be lonely and i plan to buy it a mate when it gets healed so it wont infect the other bird. Since it doesn't use the cage anymore i think ill just throw it away to be sure. I went to the vet 2 weeks ago to get some help but they said they don't know stuff about parrots, but they gave me some blue stuff to rub on its nose and some pills.And yes i think i overused the lip stuff this time, i think ill try and use some of the stuff the vet gave me more. I will try to go to a parrot vet in another town soon. Thank you for the food recommendations, whenever i have some salad i share it with my bird and it looks so cute when it eats,i haven't tried bell pepper and broccoli though.

 

[noodles123]

If you get your bird a mate, they will mate, which means eggs and babies. If your bird is already unhealthy, laying an egg could kill it. Egg-binding is a real issue in budgies (particularly).

If you do get another bird, I would make sure you know the genders of both so as to prevent mating.
Also, you will need to find a better vet to ensure that there isn't more going on here.

I am glad that you are thinking about the risk that your bird poses to others at this point.


What do you mean when you say your bird doesn't use a cage anymore?
Birds need cages for their safety....

 

[ChristaNL]

OKe... time to find yourself a real CAV (we have lists of the here, just check the sticky's about "health") and maybe spring some money on a feather DNA test anytime you get a bird.
Then you will know for sure.


If the over-the-counter-stuff does not work, go see a real doctor!

 

[Kyuutbirb]

Putting medication in water is never a good idea, as it is very difficult to monitor how much (if any) the bird is taking in. It also can cause a bird to stop drinking its water if the taste or color is upsetting to them.
If you must sneak medication, I would mix it in with a small amount of preferred, wet food (such as plain oatmeal, sweetened with mashed bananas). That way, you know they have eaten it all.

Are you sure that the vet is a CAV? It is odd that they would only know large farm birds..

Did you call them to ask about the petroleum jelly (even if they aren't a CAV, the internet isn't always a safe bet)?
Did you consult with the vet before stopping the pills? You must always finish a medication's course (unless advised to do otherwise by a doctor or vet)....If you do not, you can actually make things much worse...
Also, are you sure that the water was molding? A few hours is nothing...I have a hard time believing that visible mold could germinate in that amount of time.
Finally, what other ingredients are there in this transparent lipstick? There are specific creams out there for scaly-mites and I haven't heard of this petroleum jelly method (it may be legit, but it makes me very nervous, as petroleum is a chemical and it could easily clog the bird's nares)...In addition to my concerns about the petroleum, I worry about the additives in the transparent lipstick....Cosmetics (even lipstick) often contain unsafe chemicals (even for people). Additionally, just because something is safe for people, does not mean it is safe for birds.


Info I found:

https://www.merckvetmanual.com/bird...-of-birds/injuries-and-accidents-of-pet-birds
"Do not use salves, ointments, petroleum jelly, or other thick or oily substances on birds without veterinary recommendation."


I see where there are some sources saying that petroleum jelly can treat the issue, but they don't appear to be very reputable...Again, I could be wrong, but I think a vet needs to be involved (preferably one with parrot experience who is a CAV).

Good idea about the pills, I will try sneaking some crushed pills in some wet food . I did not ask if the vet is a CAV, but maybe i misunderstood him,im not sure .I did not call them to ask about the petroleum jelly, and I did not ask the vet about stopping the pills either, although im not sure wether the bird drank the water or not. I don't know if the water is moldy or the crushed pills got inflamated or something, I took a photo of the old water container I put the pills in before I stopped.
The ingredients aren't written on the lipstick and I don't think the lipstick came in a container, so i don't know wether or not its toxic or not to the bird. I will stop using it now im worried that it will be toxic or something haha. Thank you for the help

 

[noodles123]

If you crush pills, make sure they aren't the time-released variety.
Some pills are designed to release slowly over time, so crushing them causes them to hit the system too quickly.
There is a glare on my screen so I am trying to look at the picture, but I may be able to see it better this evening.

Before starting the pills again, call the vet and explain that you stopped them for awhile. They may need to get you some extra in order to make it a full course (depending on what they were). Also, ask them about crushing them and mixing them with food. Certain medications can become unstable when mixed with certain acids (like citric acid).

Side note: Since I talked about mashing bananas and adding them to oatmeal.....Although you should give your bird thoroughly washed fruit and vegetables (especially vegetables), be careful not to give too much vitamin C (citric acid or other---found in citrus fruits and other sour fruits). My vet said that I shouldn't give my large cockatoo a tangerine slice more than 1-2 times weekly. Too much C can cause Iron storage Disease. Also, some fruit/veg are not safe for birds, so do your research there too. Do not give too much fruit, as it is high in sugar.

I would definitely see if you can find a better vet, as this one seems a bit less than ideal. Just because a vet treats birds, does not mean that they are avian certified. Exotics vets etc treat birds, but to be a certified avian vet, one must pass additional testing. General vets (non certified) tend to lack the specific knowledge needed for birds (especially parrots, as they live longer than many other birds). Scott's link will be useful in finding one. I maintain a vet is better than no vet, but there is a very big difference between a CAV and others. Regular vets should only be used as a last resort (and if I were you, I would research thoroughly if given medications or advice from a non-CAV...just to be on the safe-side).


Even though this vet told you they didn't know about parrots, I would still call them (since you started treatment etc), but I would also be cautious, as the medications given to birds with shorter life expectancies (like chickens) are usually unsuitable for parrots. It does depend on the medication, but the fact that they didn't give you a liquid medication means that they probably aren't very familiar with pet birds)...hence my suggestion to research any suggestions and find a new vet.

 

[Laurasea]

Looks moldy to me, should have clean frsh water every day, in a clean bowl. One of my birds makes soup in her water I clean and change six times a day on average. Budgies will also bathe in shallow dish with fresh water, they like to bathe once in awhile. Birds need ten to 12 hours of sleep a night , uninterrupted... We're us your burd eating and sleeping?

 

[noodles123]

Are you washing the water dishes with soap (and rinsing very thoroughly) on a daily or 2x daily basis?

 

[LordTriggs]

right.

1. find an actual CAV (that vet you visited is not a CAV if they don't know how to treat a budgie, they're a farm vet as they treat livestock)
2. Yes clean the cage, that will keep your budgie ill and will give new diseases. Also, how would you feel living in a place filled with your own feces?
3. don't mix medicine in water it causes issues like you have seen and also they don't get the correct dosage of medicine.
4. Don't get a bird for them as a friend. What happens if they hate each other and try to kill each other? What happens if they have babies and don't look after them? Not beating around the bush, you cannot be bothered to clean a cage for one budgie. What happens when there's more budgies around making more mess?

I get that having a Budgie wasn't exactly planned but you have undertaken the responsibility of them, so don't they deserve your best? Take time to read through threads and here and listen to what people have to say. Fingers crossed you can find what's up with her beak and get it sorted, but before you go out finding her a friend offer yourself as her friend, be good to her, make her as happy as can be with toys, attention, a happy clean home and you will find her become an incredibly loving companion to you

 

[EllenD]

I wish I had been logged-on yesterday, I just logged-on right now...

It absolutely does look like Scaly-Face Mites, which will not EVER go away fully unless treated with a proper Anti-Parasitic medication, which in this case is Ivermectin. I've not ever seen Scaly-Face Mites treated with anything else besides Ivermectin, and because it is a poison and is extremely toxic, they typically give birds a one-time, single injection of Ivermectin to treat Scaly-Face Mites, and then that's it...You should not use any types of Ivermectin spray or any generic "mite" treatment you buy over-the-counter, because the reason they don't use it topically in birds is because it tends to kill them, they absorb it slowly into their bloodstream, and when you apply it topically you have no idea what dose/amount they are getting...So a pre-measured injection of Ivermectin based on the bird's weight is the only safe and effective treatment for this...

Without proper treatment, Scaly-Face Mites will continue to grow and eventually cause permanent, debilitating damage to your bird's face, and eventually will take-over it's beak, cere, nostrils, eyes, etc. I can't believe a Poultry Vet wouldn't know enough to give him an Ivermectin injection to treat this. I don't know what "blue cream" you're putting on the bird, but you could end-up making it much worse depending on what it is, as it may actually cause the mites to spread. I've treated or had many birds treated for this exact condition, a lot of Budgies (very common in Budgies) and many other species of parrots, and every single time, no matter how bad it was, a single injection of Ivermectin based on the bird's weight cleared it right up...the birds sometimes have a bit of permanent disfigurement to their beaks, depending on how bad the Scaly-Face was by the time it was treated, but the infection itself will die within 24-48 hours of the injection...

Please find ANY VET, call them, tell them that you have a Budgie with severe Scaly-Face Mites and that you were told that a single Ivermectin injection based on the bird's weight is the standard-treatment, and you need to get it done ASAP, because this is extremely uncomfortable for the Budgie, and eventually painful...And the plucking on the bird's chest is probably also due to the Scaly-Face, that would be my guess...The bird may have other issues as well if it was living in a dirty cage/environment and neglected of course, but the Scaly-Face is quite obvious and would be priority #1...And it shouldn't be too expensive for a vet visit, a scraping for them to check it under a microscope, and an Ivermectin injection, Ivermectin is not an expensive medication, it's very common and cheap...

 

[ChristaNL]

Oh and do clean the cage and everything you have bird related to hospital standards when you get the injection...after all that trouble you do not want to bird to re-infect itself from a dirty perch or corner of the food/drinkbowl