Need behavior help with stubborn adult grey.

[Greydays]

Thank you so much Lucyloo for your reply. I think he may very well be a bird that does not like handling anymore since he is no longer used to it. Yet he was on the arm of the couch a few days ago and climbed down a pillow next to to me with his head down to be petted. Other times when he puts his head down like that it's more of an attack stance and if you fall for it he will definitely go for you, but this was clearly different and so I petted him for a while on the back of his neck. He is a ball of mixed signals sometimes; touch me but don't touch me.

My brain keeps seeing him as the chick he was when I first had him but I know that he is not the same now. I do not think we have a problem with the idea of him being a completely hands off bird and have a relationship in the manner that you do with your 32 yr old grey. His old table top perch is the sort that he can get on an off of by himself and go running around. If he doesn't want to get back on it to be taken elsewhere he tries to snap at you, and this same perch we were using to put him back in his cage a few weeks ago but it leaves your hands open to get snapped at if he tries, and he has tried a few times to where I nearly dropped it once. I saw a different style that has a poop tray in between the perch and the handle/stand so I think I will replace this perch with that style to prevent these issues.

 

[Greydays]

A few questions.

How quickly do you move around him, your arms and hands in particular? I think sometimes we forget or get too comfortable with our own parrots and get careless with how quickly we move or approach them. I've had Perjo at home for 10 months and I still approach her cage with a very consistent and almost robotic motion.

Do you talk to him when approaching or attempting to handle him? I ALWAYS talk to Perjo when putting my hands in her space, and I always say good things and offer praise regardless if she deserves it or not.

I always move slow and yes I always talk to him when I am in his space like cleaning the cage, feeding him, and when I carry him; plus we even take pauses to check out the next room before we enter it and talk about what we see.

 

[Lucyloo]

You are welcome Greydays! Your grey sounds a bit like mine, sounds like you are trying hard, good luck with him, they are so hard to figure out at times. He too will put his head down for a scratch and do the infamous "bait and switch!" Lol But? We enjoy him the way he is even if it isn't the way we thought it would be. I have seen those perches you were talking about, I love those because they protect your hand! Lol as I said, I wish you the best luck, you just never know what these smart birds will come up with!

 

[Greydays]

Ah yes isn't that bait and switch so infuriating, I fell for it once but was too fast for him; then I realized you can see in his eyes what he is really going to do. I ordered that perch last night; I am not ready to give up on him just yet although he does make me want to start making dumplings. I finished reading Sally's 2nd Hand and Rehomed Parrots book last night and at the end are around 20 tips to keep in mind with them, which sound like some things you said in your post previous to this one. I bookmarked it and will review the list regularly. You are such a great help; we should chat more often. After not having him in the house for 12 years I got so used to quiet and forgot all about the demands he requires, so unlike our two perfectly behaved cats.

 

[Birdman666]

Really of little help, but remember, from his standpoint, you are the thick headed one that just doesn't understand!

YEP!

Exactly.

Training a CAG is the opposite of training a macaw, or an amazon, or a conure/caique type bird. With those birds you reign in the bad behaviors, and set boundaries.

WITH A CAG, they are so opinionated and stubborn that THEY set the boundaries with you, and you need to gradually find ways to expand those boundaries. THE MORE COMFORTABLE YOU MAKE IT TO DO NEW THINGS, THE MORE YOUR CAG WILL GRADUALLY EXPAND HIS HORIZONS.

Push a CAG too hard, they push back, and just shut down the interaction by refusing to go along with the program...

A CAG can give stubborn lessons to a mule. There's a reason they're little gray birds. The red tail is just for decorative purposes.

It's normal. Stubborn is a defining trait with these guys...

 

[Greydays]

Thank you Birdman666,

I know some people would be offended with the frank advice you all give, but I need to hear it. Since it has been several years since I had him, part of my problem is that I keep trying to just pick up where we left off when I know we do not have that relationship anymore, and that he is not a young bird anymore who will just accept whatever I am trying to do with him. I am slowing getting my head around that. An adult CAG is sooo different. I am not sure that I realized the type of personality CAGs have when I purchased him as a chick (when I was 22, and I am 37 now); I had read up on them pretty well but owning one of course is a different story, so I am having to really learn that now, and that is OK. Some people show how cuddly and moldable their CAGs are; those definitely not the stereotypical grey. Are those greys really a diamond in the rough or does it all depend on their raising? Perhaps a bit of both.

"Stubborn lessons to a mule" Ha! Thank you.

 

[Birdman666]

Generally speaking, CAGS get handled on their own terms.

My CAG allows head scratching when he wants it. He will come running up to me and put his head upside down.

If I APPROACH HIM and stick my hand up there? Chances are he will intercept my fingers with his beak and push them away. If I push it? He will get a firmer grip on my finger when he pushes it away... to send a clear message.

That's NO! I respect his boundaries. If I didn't, he is not adverse to a little blood draw now and again to emphasize his point... He's the only bird I've got that does... INCLUDING MY ZONS.

The boundaries just have to gradually get expanded. The struggle is to get the bird to accept it the first few times. Bribery and manipulation work pretty well. Bird training is a life long process. Sometimes you just go back to square one and start with basic step up and no bite training. Start over. Get in the habit of doing certain things at certain times. Develop a routine he will accept. CAGS like routines. THEY'RE VERY NEUROTIC THAT WAY.

"TIME FOR JUDGE WHOPNER!" neurotic, if you get my drift... (If you never saw Rain Man, you won't get it.)

 

[DRB]

Perjo is on to my bribery. If I need her to go into her cage b/c I'm leaving or going to be out of the room for 5 minutes or longer I bring a few treats in my hand. She's onto it, and she climbs atop the round giant cage and stands just out of my reach. I'm a big guy and yet she knows I cannot reach her if she stands in the right spots. So she does. I do my best to avoid making it a game b/c if I make it a game she will respond in kind and simply compete and try to win the game.

 

[Greydays]

Generally speaking, CAGS get handled on their own terms.

My CAG allows head scratching when he wants it. He will come running up to me and put his head upside down.

If I APPROACH HIM and stick my hand up there? Chances are he will intercept my fingers with his beak and push them away. If I push it? He will get a firmer grip on my finger when he pushes it away... to send a clear message.

That's NO! I respect his boundaries. If I didn't, he is not adverse to a little blood draw now and again to emphasize his point... He's the only bird I've got that does... INCLUDING MY ZONS.

The boundaries just have to gradually get expanded. The struggle is to get the bird to accept it the first few times. Bribery and manipulation work pretty well. Bird training is a life long process. Sometimes you just go back to square one and start with basic step up and no bite training. Start over. Get in the habit of doing certain things at certain times. Develop a routine he will accept. CAGS like routines. THEY'RE VERY NEUROTIC THAT WAY.

"TIME FOR JUDGE WHOPNER!" neurotic, if you get my drift... (If you never saw Rain Man, you won't get it.)

I am taking a huge back step and going to square one with him on stepping up and no biting training. I really see it as needed. He was just out playing for a while on the counter top and I took him to his cage to feed him, and although I used a perch he tried going for my hand again. He has really stepped up the biting when going back to his cage thing. He wasn't doing it this often the first month here. I cannot wait till the new perch I ordered that will protect my had arrives.

And yes I get the Rain Man reference although it has been while. I am big on routine too so he will definitely have a routine here.

Perjo is on to my bribery. If I need her to go into her cage b/c I'm leaving or going to be out of the room for 5 minutes or longer I bring a few treats in my hand. She's onto it, and she climbs atop the round giant cage and stands just out of my reach. I'm a big guy and yet she knows I cannot reach her if she stands in the right spots. So she does. I do my best to avoid making it a game b/c if I make it a game she will respond in kind and simply compete and try to win the game.

That's what makes it frustrating, that they find ways around our little human tricks.

 

[Birdman666]

Perjo is on to my bribery. If I need her to go into her cage b/c I'm leaving or going to be out of the room for 5 minutes or longer I bring a few treats in my hand. She's onto it, and she climbs atop the round giant cage and stands just out of my reach. I'm a big guy and yet she knows I cannot reach her if she stands in the right spots. So she does. I do my best to avoid making it a game b/c if I make it a game she will respond in kind and simply compete and try to win the game.

I have a secret weapon. Most of my birds (except Kiwi and my new baby) have at one time or another, offended to the extent that my friend Mr. Towel had to step in and help.

Tusk went through a phase for 2-3 weeks where he was really pushing buttons and boundaries, and I had to put him in Time Out. Problem is he KNEW he was going in Time Out, and he bit the crap outta me when I went to pick him up. Tried to get his way with his beak. BIRDS DON'T GET AWAY WITH THAT IN MY HOUSE. The response was immediate. Mr. Towel stepped in and Tusk became a towel mummy, and was in time out...

Well, after about the second or third time, ALL I HAD TO DO WAS HOLD UP THE TOWEL... You have a choice bird, go to your cage on your own, step up nice, OR ELSE MR. TOWEL WILL BE COMING FOR YOU. Guess what?! He stepped up nice... and the bad behaviors stopped. And haven't returned...

There are those who insist time outs are bad things. I've found they worked. And I've worked with a fair amount of behaviorally challenged birds...

 

[LeaKP]

Thank you, agree 100% Birdman, there are the NOT acceptable behaviors. I keep Mr. Towel handy as well but Nigel has yet to need mummification. But I am ready!

You wrote it so well.

 

[LeaKP]

Hmmm have you (Birdman) ever thought of writing a book on bird book behavior? You should.

 

[Greydays]

Question: How does Mr towel mummy prevent the bird from then becoming afraid of towels? Sterling is afraid of towels already so wouldn't this just make his towel phobia worse?

 

[Billdore]

A little late but I read somewhere playing peekaboo and playing with them with the towel can help familiarize them too the towel.