Need behavior help with stubborn adult grey.

[Greydays]

He was that way too up until about the 2nd year. I don't think it would call it a perpetual state of fear but he does act like he needs to flee a good 50 % of the time. He has times where he will play on his swing and chew on a little cardboard.

We are trying foraging toys as someone mentioned earlier but he is showing no interest. He picks it up and sees his favorite treat in there, but once he sees it requires effort to get it out then drops the toy and never gives it a second look. He seems to want instant gratification with everything.

 

[jdlehman76]

Sounds to me like he might be throwing a temper tantrum. You mentioned that you were giving him options and allowing him to decide if he steps up or not. I'm not sure that's the best way to go about it. Remember, they are like toddlers, and you wouldn't give your toddler the option to obey or not. When my CAG doesn't want to step up I gently force the step up from one hand to the other for about 5-6 reps to reinforce that the command is supposed to be obeyed. I can tell once the hesitation to obey is gone and stop the exercise with praise and/or treats. If he thinks he can get away with ignoring, biting or screeching at you he will.

 

[Puck]

Let me start out by saying that I think it's really awesome you're working so hard to help your Grey and take good care of him after your grandmother's loss. That said, it's a good idea to remember that you don't actually KNOW what went on at your grandmother's house. You mentioned that she didn't handle him at all, but maybe (just one scenario of many possibilities) that alarm call was the only way he WAS handled--it is possible she would pick him up or give him extra attention when he did that which would have taught him to do it. Another idea: Your grandmother was older and probably didn't have the best hearing, so these loud calls and truck noises may have been going on for a long time and simply didn't bother her as much--or she might have been keeping him in another room. There are a million other scenarios for him doing the things he does, but the way to solve them definitely isn't to cover him up and hope you can make it go away quickly. You may solve these problems next week, or they may go on for many years.

Unfortunately, you can't put a time limit on fixing a bird's issues, so if you have to have silence in your home for your work and won't go ahead and use earplugs then a bird may not be a good pick for your home (though I realize that at this point, it's a little late to go any other direction).

Like was mentioned before, it's not the parrot's fault--a bird can only be what it is. They are very smart, but not smart enough to change what they learned over many years instantly for your needs. Your guy obviously has learned that what we consider poor behavior is good behavior, and that can take a LONG time to fix. You are doing a great job trying different things, seeking out advice, and looking into different ways of training, I just don't want you to get your hopes up too much that you can change him, because while most birds will eventually come around, some never do, and part of keeping birds who are poorly socialized is accepting that they may never be that perfect bird you are hoping for.

I hope this didn't come across as too downer, I just wanted to try and be realistic--lots of people take in badly behaved birds with the assurance that they will get back to being well socialized and then the bird loses a second home when that doesn't happen--I just want to make sure you're aware that this is sort of like taking in a rescue bird in that sense!

 

[plumsmum2005]

I just want to put this out as something to think about.

Phobic/Fearful parrots. This can be based on the parrot's perceived betrayal of trust. These birds are on the list of most common ones that suffer from this. Certainly not to be discounted after his life story.

Has your bird been given a check up by an AV?

Have you tried putting on some music? Try different types and see if this has a soothing effect.

You will get there I am sure.

 

[Greydays]

Sounds to me like he might be throwing a temper tantrum. You mentioned that you were giving him options and allowing him to decide if he steps up or not. I'm not sure that's the best way to go about it. Remember, they are like toddlers, and you wouldn't give your toddler the option to obey or not. When my CAG doesn't want to step up I gently force the step up from one hand to the other for about 5-6 reps to reinforce that the command is supposed to be obeyed. I can tell once the hesitation to obey is gone and stop the exercise with praise and/or treats. If he thinks he can get away with ignoring, biting or screeching at you he will.

It kept me up some last night thinking because this week he has been extra fussy and although he was eating pretty well anything I gave him for the first couple weeks, this week he is refusing to eat fresh foods and pellets while asking for nuts and crackers. I thought no way buddy and he is not getting his way.

In regard to giving him a choice in stepping up, I never used to do that when he was little. I was just doing it lately because I thought that with all the changes he has had he may not be comfortable with being handled yet. Perhaps being considerate has backfired.

Let me start out by saying that I think it's really awesome you're working so hard to help your Grey and take good care of him after your grandmother's loss. That said, it's a good idea to remember that you don't actually KNOW what went on at your grandmother's house. You mentioned that she didn't handle him at all, but maybe (just one scenario of many possibilities) that alarm call was the only way he WAS handled--it is possible she would pick him up or give him extra attention when he did that which would have taught him to do it. Another idea: Your grandmother was older and probably didn't have the best hearing, so these loud calls and truck noises may have been going on for a long time and simply didn't bother her as much--or she might have been keeping him in another room. There are a million other scenarios for him doing the things he does, but the way to solve them definitely isn't to cover him up and hope you can make it go away quickly. You may solve these problems next week, or they may go on for many years.

Unfortunately, you can't put a time limit on fixing a bird's issues, so if you have to have silence in your home for your work and won't go ahead and use earplugs then a bird may not be a good pick for your home (though I realize that at this point, it's a little late to go any other direction).

Like was mentioned before, it's not the parrot's fault--a bird can only be what it is. They are very smart, but not smart enough to change what they learned over many years instantly for your needs. Your guy obviously has learned that what we consider poor behavior is good behavior, and that can take a LONG time to fix. You are doing a great job trying different things, seeking out advice, and looking into different ways of training, I just don't want you to get your hopes up too much that you can change him, because while most birds will eventually come around, some never do, and part of keeping birds who are poorly socialized is accepting that they may never be that perfect bird you are hoping for.

I hope this didn't come across as too downer, I just wanted to try and be realistic--lots of people take in badly behaved birds with the assurance that they will get back to being well socialized and then the bird loses a second home when that doesn't happen--I just want to make sure you're aware that this is sort of like taking in a rescue bird in that sense!

I know my grandmother never handled him after he bit her the first couple times because she told me she didn't. I called her weekly for the past 10 years and always asked about him. Mostly she just told me new phrases he was saying. As for her not being able to really hear the noise he was making, I bet you are right. My mom said the same thing. And thank you for begin realistic in that he may never change because these habits are long standing; I was already aware of that.

I just want to put this out as something to think about.

Phobic/Fearful parrots. This can be based on the parrot's perceived betrayal of trust. These birds are on the list of most common ones that suffer from this. Certainly not to be discounted after his life story.

Has your bird been given a check up by an AV?

Have you tried putting on some music? Try different types and see if this has a soothing effect.

You will get there I am sure.

He has an avian vet appointment on the 17th. We have tried some music and videos but as soon as someone leaves the room he screeches; although I have not tried different types yet. I cannot do this much because I work on school from 7 am to dinner time, and his cage is in the same room where my computer is.

Additionally, I had emailed Sally Blanchard for recommended reading for our situation, and she recommended her books: Winning the Trust of Re-homed birds, then Grey Matter and finally the larger .pdf on Vocalization Including Screaming.

 

[wrench13]

"Then he started to shake and screech again for no reason."

Parrots never do anything "for no reason" . THere is always a reason - it may be a simple one, it may be several things combined. Like Sailboats says it is never the fault of the parrot.

 

[Kentuckienne]

Yes, they have their reasons and it can be hard to guess them. When he repeats a certain behavior it's probably because it worked in the past to give a desired result. You will have to figure out what he wants, then think of a better way for him to ask for it, and only give it when he asks properly. A clicker can be a great help here. For example, say you decide that the screaming is to get you to come back in the room. It could be to get you to answer, it could be to pick him up, it could be he wants a nut....then you wait until he makes some other better noise. You might whistle back from the other room after each scream until he makes any kind of whistle, then say good bird, come back with enthusiasm and do the thing he wants. It might take a while for him to connect the new sound with the desired behavior and this is where the clicker helps.

You'll find lots of good clicker training threads here and elsewhere. Simply put, at first you will click the clicker and immediately give him a small treat, something he won't get otherwise like a pine nut or sunflower seed. You can offer several treats to see what he picks, then that's the reward and isn't ever in his food otherwise. Eventually he will learn that when he hears the click, he will get a treat. He will begin to expect it. Once he's solidly learned that, use the click to encourage a good action. Say, when he makes a pleasant sound, you click immediately and give him the treat. Now you do the same thing from out of his sight - wait for a nice sound, click at once, then come in and give the treat or do the thing like pick him up.

He had some deeply ingrained habits, but you might be surprised how quickly they can change. Learning how to get the reward is very empowering - he's not screaming until it's randomly rewarded, he's chirping/asking for what he wants which gives him a sense of control.

I believe in you! You can do the thing!

 

[Greydays]

Kentuckienne, I have been curious if clicker training might help as I have never used it with him before. I will start reading up on that some. Do they really hone in on the clicker sound better than if I was to make a nice whistle, becasue that so far isn't working? It would be a completely new sound for him, hmmmm....

Thank you so much for the encouragement.

 

[Kentuckienne]

Kentuckienne, I have been curious if clicker training might help as I have never used it with him before. I will start reading up on that some. Do they really hone in on the clicker sound better than if I was to make a nice whistle, becasue that so far isn't working? It would be a completely new sound for him, hmmmm....

Thank you so much for the encouragement.

Yes, the click is so consistent and so quick. It's not like any other noise you make, so he has to figure out what it means. And in the beginning, what it means is Treat! He will learn that association pretty quickly. Vs a whistle or a good boy, those could mean so many things. The bird may have already decided those are just meaningless sounds to be ignored, since they don't always signal the same thing. Once the bird strongly associates the click and the reward, he will be paying attention to it. Then you can start clicking only when he does something you want him to do, whistle or chuckle or pick a foot up. Since the click can be nearly instantaneous it makes it easier for him to connect what he just did with the click and reward.

Plus the interaction will be positive, bird will be paying attention to you and be interested. He will probably begin to view you in a more favorable light. Being able to make you give treats will give him a sense of control of his world, which might be reassuring. I guess he's already controlling with the screeching, but he can't figure out what makes you perform reliably and give attention, crackers, etc. Now he knows - pick up feet, get a treat! He has you trained!

The success depends on YOUR Wiley Coyote brain and creativity, to decipher his clues and gain insight into his desires and needs. These animals are intelligent in a way that is nearly human. Think of a tiny person, with free will, desires, fears, need for love, need for play. Think as if he were one of your young children constantly screaming and crying. You'll figure it out. You are already so close to understanding him. Wrench13 and Salty have some fantastic clicker videos here, and there are many excellent threads on the subject. You are so close! I believe in you both and I'm cheering you on! Click!

 

[Greydays]

I am so interested in trying this already. I downloaded Clicker Training for Birds from Amazon to read. I started reading it last night in addition to the Rehomed birds book Sally suggested to me.

Yesterday when I went upstairs a few times he started his screeching to call me and I again continued to only respond to two of his quiet sounds that he tried, which were a water drop and a low flat whistle. He has not been responding to this game which I have been trying for 3 weeks. I may be crazy but is sounded like he started making the two acceptable sounds a little more yesterday. Maybe there is a beginning sign of progress here.

I think I need to move his cage from the dining room/kitchen to the living room. I had put it here a week ago thinking that him being closer to me while I worked might make him get quieter but nope. I watched Barbara Heidenreich's 53 min video last night on Help for Parrot Behavior Problems and I cannot leave the room every time he makes an offending sound in our current situation. The living room still isn't ideal but we have no other place to put him. Our daughters (12 & 13) are homeschooled so I am glad that being home all day they are not in the living room much.

 

[Greydays]

YAY! My Companion Parrot Handbook by Sally Blanchard just arrived in the mail. I have several books to read as I can find the time. I did some searches last night and found some recommended youtube channels, and blogs some of you were recommending so I bookmarked those, and two books by Karen Pryor, Don't Shoot the Dog and Reaching the Animal Mind: Clicker Training and What It Teaches Us About All Animals. So between those, Melinda Johnsons' clicker training birds book, and Sally Blanchard's books I will be set for a while. You all are so helpful.

 

[Greydays]

I wanted to post back here to let you all know that Sterling had his avian vet checkup today and he is in perfect health.

 

[Greydays]

Another thing I wanted to add here was that clicker training seemed to work and get his attention for around 2-3 days ( he was 50-75% quieter) and for the past week and a half he has basically not cared if he got clicks/treats at all. I wait for him to get quiet to click and treat but he hardly gets quiet enough to reinforce it, and I cannot wait around a corner for every single appropriate noise because it has gotten me seriously behind in my school work already. Feeling defeated.

 

[Panama]

Third: Web Search: Sally Blanchard's Companion Parrot Handbook and buy it! SailBoat!

Would you recommend this book for Amazon parents as well?

 

[Billdore]

Keep at it I'm sure you will figure it out.

 

[LeaKP]

Yes, patience. All greys have a stubborn streak. Figuring out how to overcome that varies widely from bird to bird. Nigel has made me hit a few brick walls from time to time but I don't let him have the upper hand. He gets time with me, time with the family, treats and fun the more he behaves (in his CAG way). You'll find the key, I know it! Courage!

 

[plumsmum2005]

Third: Web Search: Sally Blanchard's Companion Parrot Handbook and buy it! SailBoat!

Would you recommend this book for Amazon parents as well?

Yes to all parronts, especially new ones.

 

[Greydays]

Stubborn streak is right! He has bitten my husbands hand twice in the 6 weeks we have had him back and drew blood both times. My husband refuses to handle him now without using a perch. I have been handling him daily and he had yet to bite me. Although he never used to, he bites now when you go to put him back in his cage so we usually put him on the door and he will go inside. We give him a treat when we do this as people suggest so his beak is busy. Well yesterday I had to put him up so we could go somewhere and right as I get to the cage door (and I was moving slowly) he drops his treat and lays into my hand. He bites twice and I did not react. Then he pauses for a millisecond, looks at me and then bites again wrenching his head around like "well how do you like this one" and breaks the skin that time. Once I finally got him to let go that one got him crammed in his cage and ignored for the rest of the day when we were back home. The fleshy part of my hand was swollen yesterday and the last bite on my hand required a band aid. So he bites the one person who was giving him attention, good job.

Suggestions? Not trying to offend anyone here but the biting crap will not fly, and the vindictive attitude because he was having to do something he did not want is not going to happen. My mother has a cat who will leave a steamy pile in the guest bed if she does not like you (she has done it to us when she thought we brought our cats with us on a visit like we usually do, but we had not this time and she still did it) and I would have launched her straight into the cold night for stunts like that.

I am reading Sally Blanchard info on biting, but he will not be handled if he is going to pull this crap. I do not touch him when he does not want it so he has his space. Yet, I will not own any animal who is mean every time they do not get their way, and I am not about to have to delay or cancel a plan just because my bird does not want to go back in his cage although he just had lots of attention and even got a treat for going in.

 

[DRB]

A few questions.

How quickly do you move around him, your arms and hands in particular? I think sometimes we forget or get too comfortable with our own parrots and get careless with how quickly we move or approach them. I've had Perjo at home for 10 months and I still approach her cage with a very consistent and almost robotic motion.

Do you talk to him when approaching or attempting to handle him? I ALWAYS talk to Perjo when putting my hands in her space, and I always say good things and offer praise regardless if she deserves it or not.

 

[Lucyloo]

As a very long time owner of 4 African Greys, I have to say that yes, his behavior may be frustrating but I truly think that when using the phrases that imply he is trying to be "mean" when he "doesn't get his way" as well as "he bites the only person giving him attention", etc, etc. I think that you are totally forgetting the fact that these are wild animals, they aren't dogs, and even though you can teach and train to a point, these are smart and sensitive beings that are not domesticated. Respect the fact that they have their likes and dislikes too, not to mention natural instincts specific to each species. You have to understand where this bird is coming from, please understand this, be patient with him and realize that he is who he is, love him and respect him for that, and if you do keep him? He may not always do what you want him to do when you want him to do it, and he just may be a bird who doesn't allow handling and cuddling. I have a 32 yr old grey that is just like yours. We have tried many different approaches with him in the past and have not succeeded with training him to enjoy or allow handling. We have him step up on a perch to go to his play stand, and we are happy with verbally interacting with him on his stand. Our other Greys are the opposite but each has its own likes and dislikes. We adapt with them and try to work with them, an ongoing process! Patience and understanding is the key, love your bird for who he is, and work with him to find a level of comfort that he is happy with.