New Member w/ Question!

[SenegalLover]

One of my teenagers just came home with a couple new birds. I wasn't thrilled, but he bought them with his own money and on his own initiative. There's a couple things here that make this more okay than other situations.

1) His parents are bird people. His stepfather has been keeping birds for 40 years. His mother is a crazy bird lady. We're here to help him learn to care for birds.

2) We're going to back him up if he needs help. MrC's daughters had a trio of cockatiels when they were younger. Once the girls graduated from high school, he had no issues keeping the birds and caring for them. The last one just died of old age in September. The girls are 32. That gives you an idea of the commitment we have to the animals in the house.

3) He chose parakeets. They're not going to live 30 years.

Granted, my son is a bit younger than you, but a lot of the same issues apply, since you're still living in your parents' house. Other issues are more important since you are older and a lot closer to launching yourself into the world on your own. It really is a lot to think about.

One last thing. The little bird currently on my shoulder is a senegal. They are amazing birds, but they do require a lot of attention. I spend about an hour (divided up into several chunks) each day actively training him, and many more hours just hanging out with him. His cage is to the immediate right of my desk, so even if he's not physically on me, he's right next to me. I'm a house wife. I'm always here. He's not my only bird, so of course there's times when I'm training the others. The rare times when I'm not home, MrC is home. I can think of a dozen times in the last year when both adults were gone at the same time, and only half of those times were for more than an hour or so. These birds and their needs dictate how I run my house. Are you prepared to make that kind of commitment? It's okay if you're not. I wouldn't have at 22, but at 41, it's a different story.

I had not realized they need THAT much attention. Granted I will give it as much attention as I am able to give, but definitely not 24/7. There will definitely be times where the bird will be home alone for long periods of time. That being said I do plan on spending MINIMUM 1 hour a day. To be honest, it will probably be much more than that but I am just being on the careful side.

To put it in comparison, would you say having a parrot is like having a dog in terms of care? Or would you say it is more like having a puppy that never grows up? The reason why I am not looking at other bird species is because the extensive care they need. I do not mind spending 2 - 3 hours a day with the bird, but I don't see myself being able to spend all day with the bird like yourself. Granted there will be days when I'm just hanging out at home where the bird will be with me.

I just want to make it as pleasant as possible for both the bird and I, if I decide to adopt one.

I almost certainly give my birds more attention than they strictly need, but I enjoy it, so I'm not complaining. People do successfully keep companion birds and work outside the home, but those people keep a schedule both before and after work and on the weekends to insure that their birds are getting the time they need.

It's a huge commitment, and if you're thinking about things like what to do when you want to spend the night at your girlfriend's house, it's perhaps not quite the right time in your life just yet. To give another example about my life, when MrC and I were dating, there were no sleepovers. He had his birds (the amazon, and at the time, the last of the cockatiels), and I had my children (his were already adults). Sleepovers just weren't in the cards and both of us were committed to the lives that depended on us to not even consider the possibility. We didn't spend the night together until I moved in, and that was just the way it had to be. These days, if we go out of town, we take the birds with us. Or one of us stays home to care for birds. But here again is where we can point out that the needs of the birds pretty much dictate how the house is run.

I do have to say that I'm impressed that you're thinking about these things and not having a tantrum when us old farts point out that maybe it's not the time in your life. That shows a great maturity level and evidence that when the time is right, you're going to make a great bird parent.

Thank you for the compliment

I feel so inclined to make this work but I can't have a bird dictate my whole life. I was thinking whenever I go out of town, which is rarely, take it to a bird sitting shop. Or regarding the whole sleepover thing, I would bring the bird to her house to spend the night, or just come in the morning to check up on it.

Are there any birds out there that aren't THAT high maintenance? Obviously if it's not the right time then it's not the right time, but I feel like it has been done in the past. Again it may seem like I'm being stubborn but I just want to attack this from all angles.

Thank you again for all your help

 

[Flboy]

Assuming that I can't put it in the living room, would leaving the t.v. on in my room or a radio help it feel more relaxed?

They love companionship, if they know someone is home, they will flock call! If you want a socialized pet, you need to socialize him/her! A bird is NOT a pet! It is really a companion! Your mom may be very surprised! When we got our first bird, we were blown away!

Any specific stories? What where you blown away with?

First off, I do hope you procrastinate!
My wife is terrified of birds! She does not see her Bongo as a bird? She hides if I take my JoJo out with her in the house!
Our first bird, Tango(GCC) was brought home by our daughter, a vet tech. Everything was so amazing, this little girl was so intelligent and friendly with everyone! She was a joy in our lives! To study her, seeing her dexterity in using her 'hands', and beak, I slowly came into a realization of what these creatures were! Tango and wifey became incredibly bonded!
She became such a part of our lives, when our daughter moved out, we refused to let her take her Tango.
Fast forward a year, Tango was killed right in front of us by her 'buddy' dog! It happens way too fast to react!
Results? Marriage gone, my daughter, same dog, lives with me and my JoJo! It took me two years to accept a bird into my life again! I had two full weeks of anxiety attacks when JoJo was first given to me!
My daughter and I have a very, very strict routine of hand off and safety procedures. We hold each other fully accountable and are very open on any little slips. Many times, I either return home, or send a neighbor into my house to double check everything!
So ya, that first bird completely blew me away!

 

[SenegalLover]

They love companionship, if they know someone is home, they will flock call! If you want a socialized pet, you need to socialize him/her! A bird is NOT a pet! It is really a companion! Your mom may be very surprised! When we got our first bird, we were blown away!

Any specific stories? What where you blown away with?

First off, I do hope you procrastinate!
My wife is terrified of birds! She does not see her Bongo as a bird? She hides if I take my JoJo out with her in the house!
Our first bird, Tango(GCC) was brought home by our daughter, a vet tech. Everything was so amazing, this little girl was so intelligent and friendly with everyone! She was a joy in our lives! To study her, seeing her dexterity in using her 'hands', and beak, I slowly came into a realization of what these creatures were! Tango and wifey became incredibly bonded!
She became such a part of our lives, when our daughter moved out, we refused to let her take her Tango.
Fast forward a year, Tango was killed right in front of us by her 'buddy' dog! It happens way too fast to react!
Results? Marriage gone, my daughter, same dog, lives with me and my JoJo! It took me two years to accept a bird into my life again! I had two full weeks of anxiety attacks when JoJo was first given to me!
My daughter and I have a very, very strict routine of hand off and safety procedures. We hold each other fully accountable and are very open on any little slips. Many times, I either return home, or send a neighbor into my house to double check everything!
So ya, that first bird completely blew me away!

Woah, you had a divorce over that? That's really intense man. One thing that frightens me is that you see dogs and cats playing with birds, but then something "snaps" and they can kill the bird. I want all my future animals to be able to get a long but it seems almost impossible.

 

[SenegalLover]

You ask some good questions, may I offer my two cents?

Time commitment - An hour a day isn't enough for any parrot. Parrots are sometimes described as having the intelligence of a three year old human and the emotional maturity of a two year old. Don't take that as science, but the essence is correct. Parrots are very smart. They need stimulation and interaction and social connections just like a human child. If they don't get enough attention and stimulation, they can go insane. They might pull out all the feathers they can reach and even chew holes in their own flesh. They can develop habits of constant, earsplitting screaming or of biting.

I suggest it would be instructive to go online at Petfinder and look up parrots in rescues. You will read some of the horror stories of neglect, and see how many of the birds have developed self destructive or aggressive habits. This is what can happen when a bird doesn't get enough attention, doesn't have enough toys to chew up or bop, is in the wrong size cage, doesn't get proper sleep, or gets too much attention and stress. These are some of the possible negative consequences of a bad fit between bird and human.

Also birds are expensive. I fully expect to spend a thousand bucks a year on our relatively healthy macaw. He's a rescued bird, and had prior infections, so he has to have periodic tests to make sure nothing has come back. Just a couple well bird checkups a year would only be a few hundred bucks including the tests, but if he got sick or injured the cost can skyrocket. Birds hide illness, so a sick bird has to go in right away, no wait and see. Plus, they need to go to certified avian vets and not a regular doctor, because they are complicated and very different from the usual cat/dog/gerbil etc.

Speaking of cats and dogs, birds don't mix well with them. Parrots are a prey species, cats and dogs are predators. Some people have had thei birds and dogs living together fine, some have had a dog that was fine for years suddenly get triggered and kill the parrot. Keeping both requires an exceptional level of diligence and supervision.

The household must be adjusted. No nonstick or teflon cookware. Portable heater and small appliances sometimes have teflon coatings, and when heated they will kill your bird dead, dead, dead. No painting, no bug spray, no hair spray, no candles, no toxic cleaners, no Pledge, no smoking...parrots have incredibly efficient lungs to support flight, and are very susceptible to inhaled toxins. They didn't use canaries in coal mines for the music, but because the bird would die before the people felt sick.

As far as temperament, parrots are much less predictable than dogs or cats. With a German shepherd or a beagle, you have a pretty good idea of what levels of playfulness or aggression to expect, and their personalities don't change dramatically with the seasons. While there are some generalizations that can be made with parrots, they are much more individualized. Macaws are supposed to be cuddle bugs, except for the ones that will bite your ear off. Any bird can have any personality and you won't know what that is until it is. Baby parrots can be sweet and tame, then mature into monsters. A new parrot in a house may be on its best behavior for a month or so until it becomes comfortable, then decide to show you who's boss. Any parrot can become aggressive when they mature sexually, and this can continue for YEARS or maybe they will just be bitey for a few months out of the year. For years.

And parrots form pair bonds, like humans, which can change in an instant. A parrot isn't going to sit around and agonize about hurting your feelings after a decade of devotion. Nope, they can be "I'm done with you now and love your spouse/partner/crush." It can be heartbreaking to find the bird you gave so much attention and money for suddenly wants nothing to do with you and in fact attacks you if you approach. You will find several stories in the forums here of just that.

It's tempting to think of parrots as less demanding because they are small, but in fact they are the most demanding per pound of any pet. Would you get a pet poodle and lock it in a crate for 23 hours a day, leave it alone their all day until late at night, play with it an hour and expect it to sit quietly by the rest of the time? Of course you wouldn't.

Parrots are also loud, which can get ou kicked out of an apartment. They chew whatever they can reach, which means you won't get your damage deposit back. They poop a lot, they require special diets and careful preparation of fresh foods and expensive pellets. They a lot of damn work. They interfere with weekends away, nights out, and vacations. New friends and lovers might hate them. They live a long, long time - as long as we do. They are not domesticated but merely tame and won't treat you as the adored alpha.

So...I suggest something like this. Keep researching parrots. Read some books - I recommend Tweti's "Of Parrots And People" as well as Blanchard's companion parrot books. Don't get a parrot of your own until you have your own place, because otherwise you won't know what bird would fit that environment. In the meantime...depending on your time...volunteer at a parrot rescue. They always need people to clean cages, socialize birds, and so on. If you had a good chunk of time off, you might even foster a parrot until it could go to a permanent home. Fostering is more work than a permanent relationship because the parrot probably had some issues that need working care through with love and wisdom, but it can give you a short, intense experience.

When the time is right, you will know. Birds get attached, and don't respond well to having to go to another home if something doesn't work out. It's just like sending a child to live with a stranger - very upsetting, mentally damaging, can destroy a parrot's ability to be a good companion which could doom them to a life of suffering as they get shuffled from one place to another.

This was amazing advice. I don't have a lot to say back to this besides saying that you are very correct. It is just a lot to take in because in my mind I was ready to pull the trigger but I have to back track and rationalize with myself.

Additionally, with all these downsides to owning a parrot, is it ever worth it? If you can go back would you do it again, or are you at a point where you are just attached and just dealing with the bird? I understand that it is extremely important to see all angles of owning an animal and start off with the negatives before positives.

Now that I think of it, I hung out with an African Grey for a full day once and wanted to rip my head off. I don't mind bird chatter, but this bird would not stop mimicking phone call sounds, sirens, crows, etc at the top of its lungs. That is why I wanted a "quieter" bird, but it seems as if there is much more to a bird than just the noise factor. I mean I technically "can" devote 3-4 hours a day to the bird but that means I would have to give up on nights out with friends and things of that sort. My heart really wants to go with the parrot, but now I am seriously reconsidering it. Logically, I see that it may not be the best time, but I just have to get over it emotionally. I'll be honest that I put a deposit on a Senegal that I got very attached at the store. The lady said that I could switch the "deposit money" to a GCC. It's just difficult because I got attached to the senegal but at this point I might just let her keep that deposit and not take the bird home.

 

[SenegalLover]

I'm not going to echo what has already been said, everyone that has answered you already has been very responsible and accurate in their replies. However, as a pet bird owner/breeder for over 30 years, and a current Senegal Parrot owner, I wouldn't be doing the responsible thing for any bird that you might get in the near future if I didn't say what is on my mind.

First, yes you do seem very responsible for your age and I'm impressed that you're doing your research BEFORE you go out and buy a bird. Unfortunately a lot of people, in fact most people that could onto the forum who have a fairly new bird that is having behavioral problems and showing extreme aggressiveness, do no research at all before getting a parrot. So I commend you for that. Now the question that you have to ask yourself is are you going to really think about the answers, opinions, and the advice you've been given by several very experienced bird owners and lovers, and do what is best not for yourself (really it's not what is best for yourself either, rather just what you WANT at the moment) but rather do what is best for the living creature you're thinking about bringing into your life.

I'm not really concerned about your level of responsibility as far as getting a bird medical care from a certified avian vet if it needed it, or feeding a bird a proper, high quality, healthy, fresh diet and not just a cheaper seed mix diet, etc. You do seem like a a very thoughtful, responsible young man in these respects. I am however worried that the area where you lack responsibility and are still very immature is in being able to read what you wrote to us about the amount of time you currently have to spend and interact with a bird, your current living arrangements and where your bird will be kept, etc. and realize that right now is not at all a good time in your life for you to become the sole caretaker of a parrot. Not because of who you are or because you wouldn't love your bird greatly, and not because you wouldn't want your bird to be happy, healthy, and have the best of everything, but because your life right now does not allow you to provide anywhere close to even the minimum amount of time with or interaction with a parrot that is needed. And when I say "that is needed" I mean the minimum amount of time spent with and interaction with that is needed to keep any parrot happy, healthy, entertained, free of boredom, and most importantly and what you really need to consider, to keep any parrot from developing behavioral and emotional issues, aggression, and manifested physical health problems like plucking.

I certainly am not at all in any way trying to be rude or disrespectful to you, and I can honestly say from the bottom of my heart that I truly believe you will one day make a wonderful parrot owner, but one day in the future, when your schedule allows more than an hour or two a day to spend and interact with your bird, when your bird can be allowed out of it's cage for longer than an hour or two a day, one day when your living arrangements allow for your bird to very happily have his cage located in the "main room" of your home where even if he's licked in his cage he will constantly have people walking back and forth past him, talking to him, simply put one day when your bird will be able to be properly socialized by people. While turning a TV or radio on for your bird during the day when you're gone is a wonderful idea, it is not in any way a substitute for having his cage out in the main room of the home. This is a topic that has been brought up a lot here recently, and the bottom line is that even when a bird is locked inside their cage, if that cage is located in a room where they can see and hear people walking around them interacting with each other, hearing all the noises and sounds that go on every day, having people simply sitting on a couch or at a table near them, even if they aren't directly interacting with that bird, the bird benefits so much from this socialization. If you were to get a bird now, put his cage in your bedroom, and leave him alone in that room with the TV or radio on for most of the day, the problem is that he is going to hear EVERYTHING that is going on out in your house. He will hear every word that is said, every sound that is made, everything. But he won't be able to see it. So he will start screaming. And this will continue on and on and on. Where as if his cage is amongst the talking and the people and the sounds, he will be able to see it, he won't feel left out, and he will not scream but rather be happy that he is a part of life in the house, and he will play with his toys and be able to entertain himself...To a point of course. Locking him inside a cage and then the cage in a room away from the action in the house is not healthy and will only cause future issues. But this is the least of the problems..

I'm sure that you can understand that allowing a parrot to be out of its cage for only 1-2 hours a day is not at all good for any bird, except maybe a finch or a canary. Let alone actually only getting to spend 1-2 hours with his sole companion. It's just not what is best for a parrot. As already said, 3-4 hours a day out of their cage time with it's people is a bare minimum to keep a bird happy, healthy, and socialized. Most of the birds that you see in rescues that self-mutilate by feather plucking or much worse do so because they spent most of their lives locked inside a cage for hours on end. You have to realize that parrots have the intelligence of a 2-3 year old child, some macaws, cockatoos, and African Grays a 4-5 year old child. They need constant stimulation, entertainment, and they really do form strong bonds and relationships with their people. And when they don't get enough attention from their people or interaction with their people, they become frustrated, depressed, and angry. These emotional problems manifest themselves in the form of aggression towards people, self-harming, and eventually they become cage-bound and totally unsocialized. So unless a person can devote at least, at the very minimum, 3-4+ hours every single day of one on one interaction with their birds outside of the cage, it just isn't good for the bird.

I bred cockatiels and English budgies for over 20 years, and have owned different types of birds since I was 6 years old. I'm now 37 years old and I currently share my life with a male 6 month old Senegal Parrot, a male 1 year and 2 month old green cheek conure, a male 11 month old Quaker parrot, a female 7 month old cockatiel, and 7 eight month old budgies...Not to mention 2 dogs and a bearded dragon. Some are animals that I rescued, some are animals I just fell in love with. I am single, I have no spouse and no kids, I own my own home (no worries about neighbors calling the cops because there are no quiet birds at all, lol), and I work 6 days a week. But I still manage to spend 3 hours EVERY MORNING with my birds before work, and all evening, EVERY EVENING from 6:00 until bedtime...Then all weekend as well. I made the decision a long time ago what was important to me, and I could tell that it was the right decision because on past Friday or Saturday nights when I would be out with friends, on a date, playing a gig with my band, drinking too much, etc. I missed my family that was at home waiting for me. I used to work over 60 hours a week, I did that for a long time and I made a lot of money. But I had to sacrifice having pets because it just wasn't fair to only give them a couple of hours a day for 6 days a week out of 7. I made the decision what was important to me, I sacrificed the income and the constant partying, the constant gigs and being on the road with my band, and I chose my animals. But I'm 37. You're 22 and you haven't even begun to live your life. There is no quiet bird, green cheek conures are supposed to be the "quiet" conure, well I've had 2 of them and there is no way I could be in an apartment with them. And I spend a good 4 hours a day with my Senegal Parrot, as he's young and it's very important to socialize Senegals as much as you can on a daily basis, they are extremely possessive birds that get very aggressively jealous of their person if you don't make a point to expose them to as many people as you can every day. 1-2 hours a day out of cage time/interaction time is no where near enough for a Senegal or any other poicephalus species.

Please just think about the big picture and do what is responsible for the bird rather than what you want to do in the moment, because the end result of your decision could be one that you deeply regret.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

This post stuck to me the most. I don't have much to reply, but I REALLY took this in and digested it. I thank you for that.

 

[SenegalLover]

Another thing that I wanted to mention is that I am truly looking for a companionship in an animal. I can feel lonely at time and don't want to rely on my family / girlfriend all the time and be a nuisance if that makes sense. I want an animal that will show unconditional love and that is another reason why I am in the market for a parrot.

Just some more information / reasoning why I am in the market in the first place.

 

[BeatriceC]

Ummmmm, if you're looking for unconditional love, a parrot is not for you. I adore my birds, but they're moody and hold grudges. Sometimes they're just jerks. None of them are immune to mood swings. Some days we cuddle a lot, and some days they brood in a corner. That's just how they are.

 

[SenegalLover]

Ummmmm, if you're looking for unconditional love, a parrot is not for you. I adore my birds, but they're moody and hold grudges. Sometimes they're just jerks. None of them are immune to mood swings. Some days we cuddle a lot, and some days they brood in a corner. That's just how they are.

Is that not true of every animal?

 

[Scott]

Ummmmm, if you're looking for unconditional love, a parrot is not for you. I adore my birds, but they're moody and hold grudges. Sometimes they're just jerks. None of them are immune to mood swings. Some days we cuddle a lot, and some days they brood in a corner. That's just how they are.

Is that not true of every animal?

The most tame and bonded bird can have several mood swings in the course of 15 minutes. Their brains are truly wired differently and have a host of visual capabilities we can only imagine. Keep in mind parrots are not truly domesticated animals.

Dogs are probably the most stable and are capable of unconditional love.

 

[SenegalLover]

Ummmmm, if you're looking for unconditional love, a parrot is not for you. I adore my birds, but they're moody and hold grudges. Sometimes they're just jerks. None of them are immune to mood swings. Some days we cuddle a lot, and some days they brood in a corner. That's just how they are.

Is that not true of every animal?

The most tame and bonded bird can have several mood swings in the course of 15 minutes. Their brains are truly wired differently and have a host of visual capabilities we can only imagine. Keep in mind parrots are not truly domesticated animals.

Dogs are probably the most stable and are capable of unconditional love.

It's funny because I see so many downsides to owning a parrot. Are there any upsides or anything that makes it worth it

 

[Scott]

Is that not true of every animal?

The most tame and bonded bird can have several mood swings in the course of 15 minutes. Their brains are truly wired differently and have a host of visual capabilities we can only imagine. Keep in mind parrots are not truly domesticated animals.

Dogs are probably the most stable and are capable of unconditional love.

It's funny because I see so many downsides to owning a parrot. Are there any upsides or anything that makes it worth it

Yes, if your brain is "wired" in concert with theirs! I mean that facetiously, but humans and birds are capable of extraordinarily close bonds. They are creatures of extreme beauty and capable of deep interactions. However, their physical and emotional needs are complex. One has to truly understand the commitment is of long duration and akin to that of living with a perpetual 3-year old. If you are curious to read first-hand testaments to the deep bonds, visit the Bereavement Forum.

 

[EllenD]

I'm not going to echo what has already been said, everyone that has answered you already has been very responsible and accurate in their replies. However, as a pet bird owner/breeder for over 30 years, and a current Senegal Parrot owner, I wouldn't be doing the responsible thing for any bird that you might get in the near future if I didn't say what is on my mind.

First, yes you do seem very responsible for your age and I'm impressed that you're doing your research BEFORE you go out and buy a bird. Unfortunately a lot of people, in fact most people that could onto the forum who have a fairly new bird that is having behavioral problems and showing extreme aggressiveness, do no research at all before getting a parrot. So I commend you for that. Now the question that you have to ask yourself is are you going to really think about the answers, opinions, and the advice you've been given by several very experienced bird owners and lovers, and do what is best not for yourself (really it's not what is best for yourself either, rather just what you WANT at the moment) but rather do what is best for the living creature you're thinking about bringing into your life.

I'm not really concerned about your level of responsibility as far as getting a bird medical care from a certified avian vet if it needed it, or feeding a bird a proper, high quality, healthy, fresh diet and not just a cheaper seed mix diet, etc. You do seem like a a very thoughtful, responsible young man in these respects. I am however worried that the area where you lack responsibility and are still very immature is in being able to read what you wrote to us about the amount of time you currently have to spend and interact with a bird, your current living arrangements and where your bird will be kept, etc. and realize that right now is not at all a good time in your life for you to become the sole caretaker of a parrot. Not because of who you are or because you wouldn't love your bird greatly, and not because you wouldn't want your bird to be happy, healthy, and have the best of everything, but because your life right now does not allow you to provide anywhere close to even the minimum amount of time with or interaction with a parrot that is needed. And when I say "that is needed" I mean the minimum amount of time spent with and interaction with that is needed to keep any parrot happy, healthy, entertained, free of boredom, and most importantly and what you really need to consider, to keep any parrot from developing behavioral and emotional issues, aggression, and manifested physical health problems like plucking.

I certainly am not at all in any way trying to be rude or disrespectful to you, and I can honestly say from the bottom of my heart that I truly believe you will one day make a wonderful parrot owner, but one day in the future, when your schedule allows more than an hour or two a day to spend and interact with your bird, when your bird can be allowed out of it's cage for longer than an hour or two a day, one day when your living arrangements allow for your bird to very happily have his cage located in the "main room" of your home where even if he's licked in his cage he will constantly have people walking back and forth past him, talking to him, simply put one day when your bird will be able to be properly socialized by people. While turning a TV or radio on for your bird during the day when you're gone is a wonderful idea, it is not in any way a substitute for having his cage out in the main room of the home. This is a topic that has been brought up a lot here recently, and the bottom line is that even when a bird is locked inside their cage, if that cage is located in a room where they can see and hear people walking around them interacting with each other, hearing all the noises and sounds that go on every day, having people simply sitting on a couch or at a table near them, even if they aren't directly interacting with that bird, the bird benefits so much from this socialization. If you were to get a bird now, put his cage in your bedroom, and leave him alone in that room with the TV or radio on for most of the day, the problem is that he is going to hear EVERYTHING that is going on out in your house. He will hear every word that is said, every sound that is made, everything. But he won't be able to see it. So he will start screaming. And this will continue on and on and on. Where as if his cage is amongst the talking and the people and the sounds, he will be able to see it, he won't feel left out, and he will not scream but rather be happy that he is a part of life in the house, and he will play with his toys and be able to entertain himself...To a point of course. Locking him inside a cage and then the cage in a room away from the action in the house is not healthy and will only cause future issues. But this is the least of the problems..

I'm sure that you can understand that allowing a parrot to be out of its cage for only 1-2 hours a day is not at all good for any bird, except maybe a finch or a canary. Let alone actually only getting to spend 1-2 hours with his sole companion. It's just not what is best for a parrot. As already said, 3-4 hours a day out of their cage time with it's people is a bare minimum to keep a bird happy, healthy, and socialized. Most of the birds that you see in rescues that self-mutilate by feather plucking or much worse do so because they spent most of their lives locked inside a cage for hours on end. You have to realize that parrots have the intelligence of a 2-3 year old child, some macaws, cockatoos, and African Grays a 4-5 year old child. They need constant stimulation, entertainment, and they really do form strong bonds and relationships with their people. And when they don't get enough attention from their people or interaction with their people, they become frustrated, depressed, and angry. These emotional problems manifest themselves in the form of aggression towards people, self-harming, and eventually they become cage-bound and totally unsocialized. So unless a person can devote at least, at the very minimum, 3-4+ hours every single day of one on one interaction with their birds outside of the cage, it just isn't good for the bird.

I bred cockatiels and English budgies for over 20 years, and have owned different types of birds since I was 6 years old. I'm now 37 years old and I currently share my life with a male 6 month old Senegal Parrot, a male 1 year and 2 month old green cheek conure, a male 11 month old Quaker parrot, a female 7 month old cockatiel, and 7 eight month old budgies...Not to mention 2 dogs and a bearded dragon. Some are animals that I rescued, some are animals I just fell in love with. I am single, I have no spouse and no kids, I own my own home (no worries about neighbors calling the cops because there are no quiet birds at all, lol), and I work 6 days a week. But I still manage to spend 3 hours EVERY MORNING with my birds before work, and all evening, EVERY EVENING from 6:00 until bedtime...Then all weekend as well. I made the decision a long time ago what was important to me, and I could tell that it was the right decision because on past Friday or Saturday nights when I would be out with friends, on a date, playing a gig with my band, drinking too much, etc. I missed my family that was at home waiting for me. I used to work over 60 hours a week, I did that for a long time and I made a lot of money. But I had to sacrifice having pets because it just wasn't fair to only give them a couple of hours a day for 6 days a week out of 7. I made the decision what was important to me, I sacrificed the income and the constant partying, the constant gigs and being on the road with my band, and I chose my animals. But I'm 37. You're 22 and you haven't even begun to live your life. There is no quiet bird, green cheek conures are supposed to be the "quiet" conure, well I've had 2 of them and there is no way I could be in an apartment with them. And I spend a good 4 hours a day with my Senegal Parrot, as he's young and it's very important to socialize Senegals as much as you can on a daily basis, they are extremely possessive birds that get very aggressively jealous of their person if you don't make a point to expose them to as many people as you can every day. 1-2 hours a day out of cage time/interaction time is no where near enough for a Senegal or any other poicephalus species.

Please just think about the big picture and do what is responsible for the bird rather than what you want to do in the moment, because the end result of your decision could be one that you deeply regret.

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This post stuck to me the most. I don't have much to reply, but I REALLY took this in and digested it. I thank you for that.

I appreciate your comment very much, it means you understand where I was coming from, and that doesn't always happen. You're a really good guy, and I sincerely mean that.

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[Flboy]

It's funny because I see so many downsides to owning a parrot. Are there any upsides or anything that makes it worth it

Yes, if your brain is "wired" in concert with theirs! I mean that facetiously, but humans and birds are capable of extraordinarily close bonds. They are creatures of extreme beauty and capable of deep interactions. However, their physical and emotional needs are complex. One has to truly understand the commitment is of long duration and akin to that of living with a perpetual 3-year old. If you are curious to read first-hand testaments to the deep bonds, visit the Bereavement Forum.

This is right on! I find myself saying sorry to JoJo many times when he nails me! I realized I was being brain dead and either ignored a danger, or overstepped our relationship!

 

[trimblegirls]

That being said I want the bird to be well socialized and not pick a favorite. To be more specific, is there any way that the bird can have multiple favorites, or at least not be vicious to those it does not favor?

I don't think that you can control that even with socialization. We have a Green Cheek Conure, Tillie. She is well socialized. When we first got her, everyone in the house loved on her. We were all in heaven or you could say on a honeymoon. She then decided that I was her person. She would get nippy with mostly my husband. She would occasionally bite my daughters (who are 18 and 21). Then after a while she decided that my husband was her man and she wanted nothing to do with me. Now she likes my youngest daughter. She won't let my husband near her - flies away. He's lucky. If I get near Tillie, she attacks me. Let me tell you a conure attack isn't cute. She bites, hangs on, tears into and when she releases goes in for another attack. This isn't every time, only some of the time. When? I have no idea what sets her off. Last night, Grace had Tillie on her shoulder. I was talking to Grace, Tillie leaped onto my face and bit into my lip so hard I was bleeding pretty good. She seems to go for the face most often. I have Grey also. He has never bitten me without warning first. I would say that noise wise. Tillie is generally louder than Jasper and the "noise" is different too. Tillie makes bird sounds quite loud. Jasper makes noises or talks.

Hope this helps

 

[adz1984]

Asiatic parrots (Alexandrine) make excellent pets for busy people and quickly become part of the family. They are not overly demanding for affection like cockatoos and are less likely to bond closely with their owners. They give kisses, communicate and return love but do not require constant hugging.
Key word "constant" they still require a good amount.

 

[SenegalLover]

Asiatic parrots (Alexandrine) make excellent pets for busy people and quickly become part of the family. They are not overly demanding for affection like cockatoos and are less likely to bond closely with their owners. They give kisses, communicate and return love but do not require constant hugging.
Key word "constant" they still require a good amount.

Elaborate?

 

[adz1984]

They are more independent than most birds, they still need interaction to stay happy but not as much as a gcc.

 

[Kentuckienne]

So many of your questions and comments remind me of .... Me! I live with a parrot, but it's my husband's. Left to myself, I wouldn't get a parrot and I had grave reservations about getting this one. I like to travel, go on short and long road trips, and parrots are hard to travel with. They need as much paraphernalia as a toddler, restaurants don't allow them, some hotels don't accept them, you can't pop out of the car for a quick hike. Plus they are messy. They take up a lot of room: we have a very small house and the parrot cage takes most of what would be the dining space. They tend to bond to one person and try to keep them away from others. I couldn't sit near my husband when he had his last parrot, and I have to be careful around the new one. So it takes some of the relaxed companionship out of the relationship. Forget sleeping in. There are very many compromises and it's not something I would choose for myself. But my husband needs a parrot in his life and wouldn't be happy without one. So we have a parrot and I have to figure out how to travel without them, which makes things with the parrot worse because I have to regain his trust every time I return from a trip.

That said, I do my best to help birdie live his best birdie life. He's a beautiful thing. Just sitting on his perch, preening, he's a scintillation of blue, exotic and lovely - a being as individual and present as either of the humans who share his home. I understand why people might be willing to give up so much of normal life to live with a parrot. The love they give - if you are lucky enough to have one that loves you - seems as real as any, and the love we feel for them is no different than the love we feel for humans. I don't know if it's the talking, or the independent attitude, or the emotionally complex brain which is strikingly similar to our own in function, but relationships with parrots are different from those with other animals.

If you think you might like this experience, don't overlook the little parakeets / budgies. They are much smaller, but can be just as interactive. Check YouTube for videos of Disco the Parakeet - I never saw a bird who knew so many phrases, and he seems to be a total cuddlebug as well. One of the budgie owners here could give you better advice, but maybe having a pair or more would make it easier on them if you were away. They don't seem as needy. Food's cheaper, cages smaller, they are quieter, but they need the same vet care and love as a larger bird. They live longer than cats and dogs, I believe, but don't have the same lifespan as the larger birds. Again, ask one of the budgie folks here, but it seems to me that being rehomed - to a good home - would be easier on them than it is on an African grey. You can't know how you will feel about having a parrot until you have one - it's like an arranged marriage - so in case it turns out that you are allergic, or it just isn't going to work, you want to minimize the emotional damage to the bird. That's one reason I advise taking in fosters at first. If you happen to get your soul mate bird as a foster, you can always keep them, and if not you at least helped a soul in need to the next destination. Good luck figuring it all out. Someone who cares about the welfare of a little bird tends to be a good friend to humans as well.

 

[SenegalLover]

They are more independent than most birds, they still need interaction to stay happy but not as much as a gcc.

Ah okay, so how many hours a day would you say?

So many of your questions and comments remind me of .... Me! I live with a parrot, but it's my husband's. Left to myself, I wouldn't get a parrot and I had grave reservations about getting this one. I like to travel, go on short and long road trips, and parrots are hard to travel with. They need as much paraphernalia as a toddler, restaurants don't allow them, some hotels don't accept them, you can't pop out of the car for a quick hike. Plus they are messy. They take up a lot of room: we have a very small house and the parrot cage takes most of what would be the dining space. They tend to bond to one person and try to keep them away from others. I couldn't sit near my husband when he had his last parrot, and I have to be careful around the new one. So it takes some of the relaxed companionship out of the relationship. Forget sleeping in. There are very many compromises and it's not something I would choose for myself. But my husband needs a parrot in his life and wouldn't be happy without one. So we have a parrot and I have to figure out how to travel without them, which makes things with the parrot worse because I have to regain his trust every time I return from a trip.

That said, I do my best to help birdie live his best birdie life. He's a beautiful thing. Just sitting on his perch, preening, he's a scintillation of blue, exotic and lovely - a being as individual and present as either of the humans who share his home. I understand why people might be willing to give up so much of normal life to live with a parrot. The love they give - if you are lucky enough to have one that loves you - seems as real as any, and the love we feel for them is no different than the love we feel for humans. I don't know if it's the talking, or the independent attitude, or the emotionally complex brain which is strikingly similar to our own in function, but relationships with parrots are different from those with other animals.

If you think you might like this experience, don't overlook the little parakeets / budgies. They are much smaller, but can be just as interactive. Check YouTube for videos of Disco the Parakeet - I never saw a bird who knew so many phrases, and he seems to be a total cuddlebug as well. One of the budgie owners here could give you better advice, but maybe having a pair or more would make it easier on them if you were away. They don't seem as needy. Food's cheaper, cages smaller, they are quieter, but they need the same vet care and love as a larger bird. They live longer than cats and dogs, I believe, but don't have the same lifespan as the larger birds. Again, ask one of the budgie folks here, but it seems to me that being rehomed - to a good home - would be easier on them than it is on an African grey. You can't know how you will feel about having a parrot until you have one - it's like an arranged marriage - so in case it turns out that you are allergic, or it just isn't going to work, you want to minimize the emotional damage to the bird. That's one reason I advise taking in fosters at first. If you happen to get your soul mate bird as a foster, you can always keep them, and if not you at least helped a soul in need to the next destination. Good luck figuring it all out. Someone who cares about the welfare of a little bird tends to be a good friend to humans as well.

This was solid advice. What kind of parrot does he have? Who knew this would be such a commitment. In my mind, I saw having a parrot like the same maintenance level as a cat, or maybe a dog. These birds seem to be even more maintenance than a dog! In the end I don't know if it is worth it or not. Every hour I go back and forth deciding it's a good idea and then thinking it is not. There are days when I am not home at all and there are days when I am home for a lot of the time. That is what makes this decision so difficult for me. The thing is it can get kind of lonely without a companion animal. My girlfriend and I have opposite schedules, and friends have work / other priorities half the time. That being said I would love to have a companion when I get back home. I guess I am just looking for a pet that can offer companionship, but maybe not as high maintenance as a parrot.

But I have a question. Does having a bird like a Senegal or a GCC for example, require as much attention as bigger parrots like African Greys or Macaws? Well, even then they still might need more attention than I can provide them. This is a tough decision as my heart and logic are in different directions. I know in the beginning I will make a lot of time for the bird, but will I do that in the future? Will the novelty wear off? Does the companionship and bond stay strong? That's the thing. Like you said it's like an arranged marriage, and if the bird doesn't like me than why would I like the bird?

This is just a very difficult decision in general.

 

[EllenD]

Let me try to address some of the questions you have asked several times without getting an "in your face" answer, and also address something you have reiterated several times that to me says a lot about your true feeling about getting a bird.

First of all, any parrot is going to be much more work and much more of a commitment than a dog. Period. I have also had dogs since I was a little kid and I love them to pieces, I currently have my second Australian Cattle Dog, she's a little over 3 years old and she's my baby. My got my first ACD when I was in college at age 21, she was a 9 week old puppy and the reason I got this breed to begin with (and the reason I got a second one after my first girl passed away 3 years ago at 14) is because Australian Cattle Dogs are not only one of the most intelligent dog breeds but they are also absolutely one of the most loyal breeds, if not the most loyal breed. They are one-person dogs, and once they find their person they are set for life. My girl won't go further than 5 feet away from me at any time, inside or out. She follows me everywhere, wants to go everywhere with me, and is waiting for me right inside the front door every time I leave. I could quite literally leave her in the care of a kennel or a relative that she knows very well and likes, like my mom, for a month or a year, and she would be waiting for me by the door until I came back. Now here's where you need to pay attention: I have had my mom watch both of my dogs for me while I've gone on vacation or on a business trip several times (my other dog is a 1 year old Shar Pei, totally different breed). I think the longest I've left my Cattle Dog for one trip is 2 weeks, but I've done many long weekends and 1 to 2 week trips with my bands, for work, or just to get away. And either my mom has watched my 2 dogs or I've boarded them with my vet. BUT I've taken all of my birds with me on every single trip! Why? Because while you can leave your dog for an extended period of time and when you come back the dog will be excited and happy to see you and want to be with you, your bird may absolutely hate you, not trust you anymore, not want anything to do with you anymore, and possibly even be aggressive with you and bite you. So yes, birds are a ton more work than dogs, cats, reptiles, any other pet that I can think of...Why? Because they have the intelligence of a human toddler and have very human like emotions. They seem to feel things very intensely and just because you once earned their trust, this does not mean that you won't lose it at any time. This is why spending only 1-2 hours a day with a pet bird you are responsible for doesn't work.

Think of it this way: Let's say you go out and buy that Senegal parrot you put a deposit on (I have a 6 month old Senegal so I am dealing with this right now). It's most likely a hand-raised, tame, young juvenile bird, and you should be able to handle it right off the bat. So you bring him home and you're excited because he's new, your first bird, and for the first few weeks you spend quite a bit of time with him, even enough to earn his trust (even though he's a tame baby that you can handle from the beginning you do not automatically have his trust). Your bird is bonding closely with you now, he head bobs for you and regurgitates for you now. You decide to take your bird with you for an overnight trip to your girlfriend's house, so you pack him and all of his stuff up and head over to her house. You put his cage in her room, open his door up, and let him out on top of his cage. He sits up there while you and your girlfriend are watching a movie. At some point your girlfriend goes to hug you and kiss you, and suddenly your Senegal flies down and bites through your ear until you're gushing blood and there's a hole through it. Why did he do this? Well, any parrot will do this out of jealousy, you're his person and this was his way of warning you that this predator was trying to touch you, and he wanted you to move away! But since your bird is a Senegal parrot it's much, much more aggressive and way more jealous, that's how Senegals are about their people. They don't like competition from other people or other pets, and they attack. Your girlfriend feels badly and wants your bird to like her, so the following day she comes to your house to stay. She tries to get your bird to step-up onto her hand, and he does. You're both happy that your bird is OK with her and she continues to hold him. Then you sit down next to your girlfriend as she has your bird on her arm, and his eyes suddenly pin and he violently bites your girlfriend's hand. She is scared of him now because she doesn't understand why he's acting like this, and doesn't want you to bring him over again. You have to leave him in his cage when she comes over. Then after the first month or so of having your Senegal parrot you start to want to spend more time with your friends again, you've been missing out on a lot, and your girlfriend is feeling a bit ignored too, plus she hates your bird. So you start to go out at night after school or work instead of staying home with your Senegal. You feed him and give him water before you leave in the morning, you're gone all day, and then you stop in at home for a short while, about an hour or so, after work or school. You open your bird's cage and let him out, again feed him and give him clean water. But you have to get ready to leave, so you take a shower, put your bird back in his cage, and you leave to go hang out with friends. Then later you go to your girlfriend's house for the night...As you stated above, in the morning you "run home to check up on your Senegal", again feeding him, then you're gone again all day long. This goes on as it had prior to you getting your Senegal parrot, you even go on a long weekend trip with your girlfriend, leaving your mom or whoever to make sure your bird has food while you're gone. Then after your life has gone back to normal, or the way it was before you got your bird, you come home after school one day and decide to stay home that night to spend time with your bird because you haven't done that in a while. You open his cage up but he won't come out. You ask him to come out, he refused and backs away from you. You put your hand in the cage for him to step up and he lunges at it and bites. After leaving him alone for a while he finally comes out and goes on top of his cage, but every time you go near him he backs away from you. Finally you get him to step up onto your hand again, but he just keeps jumping off and running away from you... You've lost his trust, he's not getting nearly enough attention from you anymore and he doesn't know why.

You see where I'm going with this? Dogs don't work this way, they don't get emotionally upset, angry, depressed, or aggressive just because you go away for a week. Parrots do. Dogs also don't self-mutilate because of not getting enough attention.

You have asked several times "Is there any upside to having a parrot, is it worth it?" You have to understand that when I was reading you asking that question several times I cringed because to me there really are no downsides to having my birds at all. They are my family, they love me and I love them. They are always here for me, they always make me laugh, they always snuggle with me when I'm sad or lonely. I don't look at having to stay home at night with them as "a downside", because I prefer being home with them to being out doing something else. Of course I do other things, I play guitar and sax in a band, I mountain bike, I go to the gym, I go to a lot of concerts, I have a life. But 90% of the time I include my birds in what I'm doing, and if I can't include them then I just can't be gone for long. And that's just fine with me because I arrange my life around them.....Does this sound familiar to you at all? It's just like having a young, human baby or child. You keep comparing having a parrot to having a dog or another type of pet, and really with their intelligence, emotions, and personalities, having a parrot is a lotore like having a human child in your life, and having the same responsibilities that come along with a human child.

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