Raven's vet visit - getting to the bottom of it finally...

[RavensGryf]

I realize some of you have heard this story before a while back... While Raven was done weaning and still at the breeder's house almost ready to be shipped out to me, he had an accident with a sibling. He got bit on the beak and over the nares. It caused some external and internal deformity (which will always cause intermittent sinus problems), and caused a bacterial infection which was taken care of by the breeder. She immediately took him to the vet, and she had finished the course of his injections, and the infection seemed over. It must have been lingering at low grade, because although he did seem well after coming home to me, nasal symptoms started up again a couple months later. I took him to 2 avian vets, one after my regular avian vet couldn't solve the problem, so had a second opinion and was finally taken care of. The breeder ended up refunding me half his purchase price for the trouble. Didn't amount to nearly the cost of vet bills, but it was professional and fair considering I called her back about this months later.

Fast forward to about 6 months ago. Raven was STILL shaking his head often, and scratching at his nasal area. The vet would curette out chunks of old gunk (left from the old infection) that would come down from the sinuses and need to be cleared out periodically. Finally, no more junk to clear out... But STILL shaking his head and scratching at his nares too often.

Once and for all, I wanted to get to the bottom of this! WHY was he shaking his head so often? Also, it's like he seems allergic to something at times...

What is going on currently: Diagnosis

One of my vets (the one who knew how to get rid of the infection) is one of a handful of avian vets in the country (US) who sees only birds. I brought Raven to him in hopes of finding out WHAT is going on, and WHAT there is to do about it. Digital X-ray is one of his top diagnostic tools. He x-rayed Raven the other day. Raven has a low-grade fungal infection in his air sacs!! :52: Because of the damage to his nares and sinus cavity as mentioned above, he has compromised function of the nares and sinuses, so they say he will always be more susceptible to bacteria and fungi entering. That's whst they told me early on when I got him and was treating him the first time. Still, I was surprised it happened. I guess because he's fed well and and kept clean, that the infection didn't take hold any stronger. It showed very light in the x-ray, so I hope it gets knocked out with this first round of meds.

So.. Raven has twice a day oral meds. Fun trying to get it all into him! Don has to get him for me, and if he's not available, I'll have to get him with a large bath towel and have him scream bloody murder, since he doesn't like ME (his owner) handling him a lot of the time! Raven loves Don, and he can hold him for me without even using a towel, and never getting bit! Funny thing is, both of us are without a clue how to restrain properly. It has always been easy with my Pois, but Raven is twice as big, (and larger birds I had never needed meds) so consequently we need to learn how to towel and hold... That is another thread .

Thanks for reading . Here you can see updated new pics of my beautiful boy Raven. http://www.parrotforums.com/pionus/54122-raven-new-pics.html

 

[thekarens]

Poor Raven! I hope this takes care of the problem!!!

 

[Doublete]

Yikes. So you'll always have to worry about infections??

 

[RavensGryf]

Yikes. So you'll always have to worry about infections??

Well... In a nutshell yes. I hate to use the word "worry" but I need to take extra precautions with him since he is unfortunately a little more compromised than a bird without sinus damage. The sinuses and airway working properly does play a big role in keeping out 'bugs'.

Early on, one vet said I should have returned him to the breeder. She even told me she would take him back... I'm glad I made the decision not to. It's a big bummer, but Raven is family nonetheless . I have to look at it just like if a child or spouse has some sort of medical issue... Do you get a divorce, or not want to take care of your child? LOL! You do your best to keep them healthy, deal with it if it comes, and say "that's life", and remind myself that not everyone has a "perfect" little family free of medical issues lol.

All I wanted was a Bronze Winged Pionus. I got one, then she passed away. Got another one, then this!

 

[EAI]

Well, it must be a great sigh of relief to figure out what has been happening (and that it's mild!).

Poor Raven, I hope the medication greatly improves his sinuses

 

[JerseyWendy]

Julie, you are so diligent with your fids' health, I'm happy this was caught, and I'm sure the meds will help kick the fungal infection in his air sacs.

 

[Anansi]

Julie, you are do diligent with your fids' health, I'm happy this was caught, and I'm sure the meds will help kick the fungal infection in his air sacs.

Amen!!!

I'm glad your vet has finally gotten to the bottom of the issue with the head shaking. It's just too bad that he will be prone to infections for the rest of his life, but he is well and truly blessed to have gotten you for a parront. Your love for him, and all of your birds, is unconditional, and it shows in their health and obvious happiness.

As for administering that medication, have you ever tried just holding the dropper by his beak and waiting a minute or two until the natural caution faded away? If not, this is worth trying before actually toweling and forcing the issue. This is what I did with Bixby, and curiosity eventually prompted him to nibble on the dropper. Once he was properly positioned and nibbling away, I discharged a little into his mouth. At first he pulled away, of course. Surprised and slightly freaked out. But I held the dropper near his beak, at the ready. Soon enough, curiosity... along with the intrigue spurred on by that sweet taste, compelled him to nibble again. By the second or third dose, giving him the meds was easy. (Well, until the third round. He was fairly sick of meds by then.)

Oh, and one other tip! Try giving him the medication just before his next meal. That way you insure that he's good and hungry. Makes him a lot more likely to try and get something into his stomach.

 

[Pinkbirdy]

He is such a gorgeous bird [love his pictures]. One species I don't know anything about . What are they like ?I hope the vet finds the right medicine to knock it out of him . IMO Im scared to death when one of my birds gets ill . You know how they hide their illness. Im not into playing around and let the vet know.

 

[labell]

So glad you got to the main issue and hoping Raven can make a full recovery. I wonder if a little apple cider vinegar in his water periodically would help? It is very good against fungus and bacteria.

 

[Allee]

Julie, I know Raven's issues have been ongoing, but I am so glad you chose to take the more challenging path and keep him. I can only imagine what Raven's life would be like if you had returned him to the breeder, he's very lucky to be a member of your flock and family. You are a wonderful guardian.

Good luck giving Raven this round of meds, I hope it does the trick and Raven can focus his full attention on giving you a hard time and letting you know he prefers his dad.

 

[Kiwibird]

I'm sorry to hear poor Raven is still battling this issue. Hopefully at some point he can be without the respiratory issues. You have been taking such good care of him through all of this.

Curious, is he on liquid meds? If so, have you tried "lacing" a treat with them so you don't have to restrain? That's how we got Kiwi to take antibiotics when we first got him (and had 0 desire to restrain him 2X a day). Carefully soaked a fruit loop with the antibiotic and fed it to him. He was none the wiser and thought he was just getting junk food:54:

 

[RavensGryf]

First... Thank you so very much everyone, for your kind concern about my beloved Raven. ALL of your posts of acknowledgement really mean a lot to us .

Answers to the questions...

As for administering that medication, have you ever tried just holding the dropper by his beak and waiting a minute or two until the natural caution faded away? If not, this is worth trying before actually toweling and forcing the issue. This is what I did with Bixby, and curiosity eventually prompted him to nibble on the dropper. Once he was properly positioned and nibbling away, I discharged a little into his mouth. At first he pulled away, of course. Surprised and slightly freaked out. But I held the dropper near his beak, at the ready. Soon enough, curiosity... along with the intrigue spurred on by that sweet taste, compelled him to nibble again.

Wow, Stephen that's a pretty good idea. I'm not sure if Raven will go for it, but it's worth a try. He's one of those intent on shaking the meds out the first opportunuty he has! He will relax and calm down when Don is holding him though, so we'll try it... It's "supposed to be" raspberry flavored, but judging by Raven's reaction, I don't know lol.

He is such a gorgeous bird [love his pictures]. One species I don't know anything about . What are they like ?I hope the vet finds the right medicine to knock it out of him . IMO Im scared to death when one of my birds gets ill . You know how they hide their illness. Im not into playing around and let the vet know.

Thank you, crossing fingers these meds work too. Terri, you definitely NEED to get a Pionus next! They're smaller relatives of zons

So glad you got to the main issue and hoping Raven can make a full recovery. I wonder if a little apple cider vinegar in his water periodically would help? It is very good against fungus and bacteria.

Good idea Laura ! I already use organic unfiltered ACV for the budgies.

Curious, is he on liquid meds? If so, have you tried "lacing" a treat with them so you don't have to restrain? That's how we got Kiwi to take antibiotics when we first got him (and had 0 desire to restrain him 2X a day). Carefully soaked a fruit loop with the antibiotic and fed it to him. He was none the wiser and thought he was just getting junk food:54:

Now that's a creative idea! So he ate every bit? That's part of the problem now, he needs .26 cc, but I think he really gets .23? since we're such amateurs at restraining and medicating lol. It seems like he doesn't care for the flavor though. That would be my hesitation with doing that with this particular med. Even with the raspberry flavoring, it might be a strong bitter tasting one, judging by his reactions.

 

[Terry57]

Julie, I am so glad that Raven has a diagnosis! I so hope the meds will take hold quickly and wipe that out. I am so thankful that you are the one who got Raven, who knows what would have happened to him if someone else had.
You are an amazing Mama, my friend.

 

[RavensGryf]

Julie, I am so glad that Raven has a diagnosis! I so hope the meds will take hold quickly and wipe that out. I am so thankful that you are the one who got Raven, who knows what would have happened to him if someone else had.
You are an amazing Mama, my friend.

Thank you ... And and big suitcase full of money would be nice for all the vet bills too!

So the diagnosis is the fungal infection AND allergy to the Poi's dust

 

[Scott]

You've done such a wonderful job of managing Raven's care! Having a firm diagnosis should allow you to make an early detection of future infections and nip them in the bud.

Raven will never be able to thank you, but in your heart you've done him well!!