Really need help

[OrangeWingedKiwi]

Hello Folks,

Kiwi our OWA ( or couch potato) isn't moving alot and her feet looks like that :

What we tried so far :

6 layers of vetwrap on everything including perches, door

We went to two vets and one of them literally said " There is nothing we can do since she has no flight feathers she doesn't exercise enough". Kiwi is by nature not a playful bird. She likes to follow me on the floor and that is about the only exercise she does`; trust me we've been trying for 10 months and she hasn't improve on this part. We tough at first of a Vitamin A deficiency and the Full Bloodwork came back normal.. We also tried Towels but she is afraid of towels.We also tried baytril without success ( for the infection) I know i have been mentionning this before but it is getting worse and worse

We tought of removed the perches but god she didn't enjoy it. I need suggestions of things i haven't tried and trust me i'm doing the best i can.

 

[JerseyWendy]

Have the pressure points gotten any better since you've been using vet wrap, or have they stayed the same?

The only things I can think of is offer her a platform perch and some BIG, wide cholla perches, like this one....they are gentle on the feet: Polly's Manu Mineral Cactus Perch Large - POLLY'S PET PRODUCTS by MY SAFE BIRD STORE

...it doesn't have to be the "manu" perch. They make cholla without the stuff inside, too.

 

[OrangeWingedKiwi]

Have the pressure points gotten any better since you've been using vet wrap, or have they stayed the same?

The only things I can think of is offer her a platform perch and some BIG, wide cholla perches, like this one....they are gentle on the feet: Polly's Manu Mineral Cactus Perch Large - POLLY'S PET PRODUCTS by MY SAFE BIRD STORE

...it doesn't have to be the "manu" perch. They make cholla without the stuff inside, too.

About the pressure points, her right foot stayed the same but the left one has gotten worse.

 

[henpecked]

I would for sure change what ever perches you have. At least run then though the dishwasher with no soap. I think you were on the 5 day baytril course, that's not long enough. 10 days never less than that, But i'm not a vet, and never had a AV perscribe less than that. I'd go back to the oral baytril and ask your vet about "vetracyn" applied topically. You really need a better Avian Vet . Their circulation is very poor in their feet, infection there take awhile to clear up.Getting rid of the redness will let you know your headed in the right direction. What dia. perches do you use? they need to be 1 1/2 " dia for average zon. Natural perches with their irregular shape are best. What you have is called "Bumble Foot" it's a bacterial infection. usually caused by dirty,too small , perches..;ie,wooden dowel rod.

Try goggling "bumble foot in parrots"

PS Kiwi the OWA needs to go on a diet, no wonder her feet hurt, look at all the weight they're carrying.

 

[OrangeWingedKiwi]

I would for sure change what ever perches you have. At least run then though the dishwasher with no soap. I think you were on the 5 day baytril course, that's not long enough. 10 days never less than that, But i'm not a vet, and never had a AV perscribe less than that. I'd go back to the oral baytril and ask your vet about "vetracyn" applied topically. You really need a better Avian Vet . Their circulation is very poor in their feet, infection there take awhile to clear up.Getting rid of the redness will let you know your headed in the right direction. What dia. perches do you use? they need to be 1 1/2 " dia for average zon. Natural perches with their irregular shape are best. What you have is called "Bumble Foot" it's a bacterial infection. usually caused by dirty,too small , perches..;ie,wooden dowel rod.

Try goggling "bumble foot in parrots"

PS Kiwi the OWA needs to go on a diet, no wonder her feet hurt, look at all the weight they're carrying.

Hello Henpecked,

Kiwi is eating Harrison's life time with vedgies and fruits every day. I am not given her human food even if she tries to get into our plate. She has different size perches that are 1.25 inches inches ( smallest). She currently has no wood perches... I am currently appyling daily aloe vera gel for the skin.. Her perches are not dirty so i am thinking too small

and she is not moving enough ? Should i get something similar to dragonwood ?

Kiwi is currently 370 grams ( from 3 days ago)

 

[henpecked]

What type perches does she have??? I would still clean them very well,even if they look clean. I use the dishwasher because it gets the water so hot. Something is causing the infection , sores ,wonder what?

 

[OrangeWingedKiwi]

Kiwi currently has the following perches :

She mostly has rope perches ( 4 right now). They're all between 1.25 inches and 1.75

The only problem is see with ropes perches is that they do not really change in shape

 

[henpecked]

IMO she needs some different types to choose, she'll probably find one that feels good,or won't use the one that bothers her. Variety is best! Have you seen the "pedi=safe" perches? Plastic ,smooth on top and rough sides to wear down their nails. All our zons have one of those in their cage.

 

[Featheredsamurai]

Poor birdie That one spot looks so red.

Rosie came to me with pressure sores, because the skin is worn away it seems they get recurring irritation easily. Sometimes I wonder if her feet will ever not have them. I watch what perches Rosie's is using most often and I look at her feet every day to make sure they aren't irritated. She only has them on her bad foot because it doesn't sit on perches the way it should.

What I do is keep perches clean, stay on top of checking her feet, and change out any perches that are irritating her foot. I recently took her safety pumice pedicure perch out because the back of her lower leg was getting reddish, her feet are still recovering from that.

Be creative to find out what perches work the best for your amazon.

Hope this helps a little

That big worn down area at the back is her lower leg.

You can't see in the photo, but I used vet wrap to secure the plank to a perch it is resting on, that way it won't wiggle. You may have to use bolts though, if your amazon likes chewing.

 

[WannaBeAParrot]

I don't have personal experience caring for a zon, but if this sounds appropriate for a zon, here are some perch suggestions if you haven't yet tried them:

--Mineral perches (they are softer than wood because they break down and rub down - so in theory, they won't rub off the skin, but instead they will just wear down themselves. Pritti has one and seems to like it. He chews it down and then I replace it. I clean it by scraping off the outer layer and bringing out a clean fresh layer. It's easy to do with a butter knive.

--Cushioned perch -- I haven't seen this in person, but it sure sounds intriguing, sort of like those super dense foam mats stores sell for humans to put in places where they stand a lot, like by sinks, work areas. Here is the mfr's website Closeouts

--Hanging bird nest or tipi, etc. -- some nice examples here Bird Tent | Parrot sleeping | Pet Tents|DISCOUNTED

--There are kids toys that are realy thick plastic filled with water - like teething rings, and flat pillows and pads for infants to lay or play on the floor. They are usually really think. Since they would be almost like a water bed for your baby's feet, it might be good. With humans that have pressure sores, this type of movement is good for circulation. Perhaps u want to try one if you think it won't get torn open in the first minute. They are pretty thick though.

--Snuggly fringes swing - You can find them on ebay at onine bird stores, Etsy, etc. Here's a link that shows you how to make one for a small bird.

Natural aloe right from a plant is the best form of aloe, as long as it is safe for zons to ingest in case it gets inside.

I hope your baby gets better fast.

 

[Pajarita]

The key is wrapping the perch in something soft (you can even use a soft kitchen towel for that), using perches with different diameters (and I am talking big difference) and putting them in all crooked except for the sleeping one which should be a soft one. This ensures that no any spot receives pressure all the time (which is what causes some spots in the sole to 'wear' down the covering rough skin). I don't like flat surfaces for them as parrots were not created to walk on a flat even surface but to perch and climb.

Your bird does not have bumble foot yet, only the beginning stage. Once the skin gets too thin, it opens up (as in a sore), and infection sets in, then you have bumble foot but your bird's feet don't have sores yet, only sore points so I don't see why the vet gave you antibiotics.

And what does the vet mean when he says your bird doesn't have flight feathers? Because, naturally, a flighted bird does better as flight is the only exercise a bird has but I don't see how that is germane to the problem... Is it because he thinks that part of the problem is that the bird is overweight?

 

[henpecked]

Did you see the pics? Looks pretty "chunky" to me. But i don't have the bird inhand either.

 

[JerseyWendy]

Here is a helpful link. And yes, this sure looks to be bumblefoot according to the attached link.

Bumble Foot: Causes, Symptoms and Treatment

 

[OrangeWingedKiwi]

The key is wrapping the perch in something soft (you can even use a soft kitchen towel for that), using perches with different diameters (and I am talking big difference) and putting them in all crooked except for the sleeping one which should be a soft one. This ensures that no any spot receives pressure all the time (which is what causes some spots in the sole to 'wear' down the covering rough skin). I don't like flat surfaces for them as parrots were not created to walk on a flat even surface but to perch and climb.

Your bird does not have bumble foot yet, only the beginning stage. Once the skin gets too thin, it opens up (as in a sore), and infection sets in, then you have bumble foot but your bird's feet don't have sores yet, only sore points so I don't see why the vet gave you antibiotics.

And what does the vet mean when he says your bird doesn't have flight feathers? Because, naturally, a flighted bird does better as flight is the only exercise a bird has but I don't see how that is germane to the problem... Is it because he thinks that part of the problem is that the bird is overweight?

Kitchen towerl = Forget it. i can't even bring that close to her; she runs away like a chicken on the floor

I am currently waiting for Henpecked's perches hope that'll make a difference. you guys seriously think that Kiwi is overweight ? She is 370 grams.

 

[Pajarita]

No, LOL, I don't know if the bird is overweight, I've never seen a picture of it but, even if I had, I might not have been able to tell unless the bird was morbidly obese. I was just asking.

Don't wrap the perches in kitchen towels in her presence, take the perches away and return them already wrapped. I don't like vetwrap for sore feet, it feels raspy to me...

Yes, JerseyWendy, I guess, in a way, you could say it's bumble foot in it's very early stages but it would be like saying that a red spot on a bed-ridden person is a bed sore. It's not. It's the beginning of it. But, if you take care of it, it won't happen. That's why I say it's not really bumble foot YET. There are no sores and infection has not set in yet so the bird doesn't really need antibiotics (some vets are way too fast prescribing them, if you ask me).

I use tree branches in their natural form (I don't strip them and I don't choose the 'straight' ones) and I've never had a single bird with a foot problem. I swear by them.

 

[lpolliard]

Not bumble foot yet, those are hot spots. Though his toes are a little oddly chunky, I think due to genetics. It took Chico a few months to get over his hot spots after I changed out his perches. It was a slow process but his never got worse. I would be concern if your boys feet looked worse after changing out the perches.

 

[prsgirl77]

How is kiwi getting along? I hope she's doing well. I once had a budgie with a serious case of bumble foot but with the proper medication it got better like the others have said I think offering many different types of perches with varying diameters should help, also the pedi perch seems to be a favorite among my parrots.

 

[OrangeWingedKiwi]

I went to two different vetd and they said her weight is just fine but i personally think she's overweight. Anyhow, i am waiting for Henpecked's perches and hopefully it's going to get better. I have a vet appointment this week for my 4 birds and hopefull Kiwi is going to be ok ( she hates the vet)

 

[henpecked]

Your the ones that went to Canada, Yeah, they're probably another week away. But they're coming!!!

 

[MonicaMc]

http://www.scottemcdonald.com/pdfs/Average Weights.pdf

average bird weights, flight suits for parrot, flight suit for birds, green cheek conure, conure breeder, yellow sided conure, yellow sided green cheek conures. avian bird flight suit

370 grams doesn't *sound* overweight, but we can't physically feel or touch the bird to really be able to tell. Overweight birds will have a rounded keel bone kind of "U" shaped, and the keel will be "indented". An underweight bird will feel more "V" shaped.

What I've noticed is that fat birds feel "spongy" and birds who are in shape will feel "dense".


I don't know if I recall the reason why this amazon doesn't fly. Clipped? Wings destroyed or?


What about rather than putting food out in a bowl, why not encourage foraging activities to keep her busy and moving around the cage?