Sir Jolly's having a bad reaction

[Keatz]

Hi, Stephen. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the subject. It's nice to be able to discuss it with someone who's experienced the condition first hand.
Even though nothing conclusive has been reached, at least life threatening illnesses have been drawn out, and in a way, I find that comforting. I hope it is just a reaction to food or certain stimuli. I sometimes find it hard to believe it's merely a food allergy when Oscar experiences it, but I suppose that if humans can have an anaphylactic reaction to food, it stands to reason that birds can have extreme reactions to food too.
The vet has suggested that Oscar might be more sensitive to food and stimuli than other eclectus. I have to be very careful about what I feed him. Like you intimated, it's not always easy to identify the triggers. It could be several things. It's hard to know.
Sometimes Oscar gets this, what I would describe as, strange neurological itch. When he scratches himself, he suddenly lunges at his feathers like he's attacking them. When he does this, often his left leg will spring up and down, just like it does when he's having leg spasms. This makes me wonder whether the itch and the extreme toe tapping are related; after all, scratching can be a sign of an allergy. I've also discussed this with the vet, but again, we just don't know what the cause is.

 

[Anansi]

You're welcome, Keatz. Yeah, I know what you mean. It does help to have others with whom this can be discussed, especially when so little is known about the affliction in general.

And that "neurological itch" is exactly the kind of thing that I've been talking about. Especially when you factor in what is happening with that left leg at the same time, kind of like a phantom spasm. The itching could actually be nerve pain or tingling that gets to the point of being maddening, hence his lunging at his own feathers. So I personally think it very likely that the itch and toe-tapping are related.

 

[Kentuckienne]

I can’t find a good source to refer to ... I’m thinking about how Parker leaves his feathers alone for four months...then about how birds molt in specific patterns, I.e. primaries which are needed for flight, contour feathers for insulation... there is a particular type of feather, called a filoplume, which is hairlike with no vanes. The purpose of that type of feather is not well understood. Speculation is that it is sensory-related, maybe to help the bird feel when its feathers need aligning. At first I wondered if that was the kind of feathers ekkies have, but then I read that no, ekkies just don’t have barbs on the feather vanes. But still...what if filoplume feathers caused discomfort in some birds during or before being molted? If they do function as sensory feedback structures they must be particularly well connected to the nervous system, and maybe in some sensitive birds could cause irritation or just a creepy feeling, like restless leg syndrome. And that’s my uninformed SWAG for the week.

 

[Anansi]

Interesting thought, K. Though it would still beg the question of why this issue happens to filoplumes in captivity, and not in nature. It would be something to look into, though, as that would probably mean something is going wrong specifically with the filoplume follicles.

In that instance, however, there would likely be no connection between plucking and TT/WF.

 

[Kentuckienne]

Interesting thought, K. Though it would still beg the question of why this issue happens to filoplumes in captivity, and not in nature. It would be something to look into, though, as that would probably mean something is going wrong specifically with the filoplume follicles.

In that instance, however, there would likely be no connection between plucking and TT/WF.

Hey, you make a good point ... I've often heard that only birds in captivity pluck, and the theory is it's stress-related, lack-of-enough-flight-related. I once had a cat that was too fat to wash its own back end, and she became very sensitive - if you even touched her back, near the tail, she would hiss and spit as if you'd poked her. The vet said when they can't groom themselves, their skin becomes hyper-sensitive. You think that's true for parrots? They have some sensory feedback baked into the DNA, to let them know the feathers are good. Maybe birds even detect things like humidity in the air by how it affects the feathers. I was really just thinking in terms of what happens four months after Parker's new feathers come in that make him barber them, and thought those are small feathers, maybe it's not obvious that they molt or regrow.

 

[Anansi]

I definitely believe stress is one of the causes. Whether due to lack of activity, constant fear without an avenue of escape, chronic exposure to loud noises, neglect, lack of stimuli, lack of sleep, etc... Along with stress-induced examples, however, there are also medical causes like improper diet, allergic reactions, skin irritation from insect bites, ingestion of certain foreign substances, or the nerve discomfort that I've been focusing on in this thread. And finally, there is plucking due to chronic behavior. This is the type that started out as a medical thing, but subsequently became an ingrained, compulsive behavior that outlasted it's physical cause.

So many potential catalysts. And so many starting points for said catalysts that we might not even know.

Your question about the humidity is a very good one. I know I've brought it up with Chris before, and as I recall he made significant changes to his home's humidity without any discernible effect. It's possible, of course, that this is an example of something that started with a medical cause and then, over the years, became behavioral. But the yearly consistency of it has always made that theory a bit hard to swallow for me. Not impossible, but rather improbable.

So the question becomes, what else in the environment could be causing this distress. Temperature? Again improbable because of the controlled conditions. Diet? Short of your suggestion about the timing of imported produce, nothing else even comes close to holding water for me. A heightened reaction to hormones? Definitely a possibility. Air pressure? Again, quite possible. A lot of variables, though.

 

[WakaWaka]

So the question becomes, what else in the environment could be causing this distress. Temperature? Again improbable because of the controlled conditions. Diet? Short of your suggestion about the timing of imported produce, nothing else even comes close to holding water for me. A heightened reaction to hormones? Definitely a possibility. Air pressure? Again, quite possible. A lot of variables, though.

Just skimming through the posts and saw you mentioned, air pressure. Assuming temperature and humidity can be controlled with our available air conditioning technology, we do not (for the most part) routinely control our indoor air pressure. I believe there are several sites that have historical weather data available. May be worth a look to see if any barometric pressure change correlates to a triggered event. It may take a while to sift through some of the historical data, but if there is no correlation, at least that is something that may be ruled out.

Just found an example on Wunderground:
https://www.wunderground.com/person...D=KAZGLEES2#history/s20170702/e20180703/myear

To give an example, every time we open a window to air out the house, to provide a cross draft when cooking with strong spices, etc. Arika will start scenting. It smells like she opened a flower shop in her room. There's not really any sudden temperature or humidity change, but something triggers her scenting. Even taking her to the vet in her carrier triggered a scenting event when she was outside for only a few minutes. Point being that they are sensing something that triggers a response and to us we sense nothing different.

I may be grasping at straws, but thought I would make mention of it. I hope someone finds an answer soon.

 

[Anansi]

Great idea, WakaWaka! And the link you provided to that example weather site is a perfect example! It not only gives day by day weather values, including pressure, but also provides graphs with daily values for each atmospheric component charted over the course of a year. Brilliant!

Chris, I think something like this for your area would be invaluable for charting the variables for the time of year that Parker begins his plucking. If any of the weather components, be it humidity, pressure, or some other, were to consistently spike or drop at the time of Parker's regularly timed plucking episodes, we'd have a strong lead with which to work.

Also, WakaWaka, what you mention about the scenting events ties in strongly to what I'm saying about... shall we call them "intangible variables"? There are a number of factors we may not even be considering because they are beyond the realm of our level of perception.

 

[Anansi]

Jolly update. The jade speedster is doing much better, and seems pretty much back to normal. The raw, abraded skin on his feet where he had been gnawing is healing well, as is the cut on his right ankle.

As I might've mentioned before, there's been some weight gain from all of the oatmeal he's been eating to get his meds down, but we only have two more weeks of that to go. And besides, Jolly sheds excess weight rather swiftly with his flying regimen, so I'm not too worried on that score anyway.

And he has finished his 2 week course of antibiotics, so we're just down to 2 medications now.

 

[chris-md]

Ah yes, the endless carousel.

I’ve definitely tried upping the humidity to no avail.

I’m skeptical of the pressure because it’s ever changing throughout the years. There always high or low pressure systems passing overhead throughout the year.

I really don’t think it’s weather related. The best guess I have is seasonal affective disorder. But I’ve tried UV light and he’s always exposed to 12+ hours of light

Thus why I’m beginning to think it’s simply ingrained at this point.

I’m glad sir Jollybean is well on the mend

 

[Anansi]

Thanks, Chris.

You've done so much to try and figure out what's happening with Parker, my friend. I don't know if a definitive cause will ever be found, but I do hope that his vet will be willing to try the preemptive meds on him. If there's a neurological component, there's a good chance it'll help.