Splayed legs in parakeet hatchlings...

[Budgiegirl38]

Hi all, I took babies to the vet today at 9. They're being kept there so the vet can attempt to splint them. Though she even said that she has yet to successfully splint a parakeet....So honestly I'm not sure they'll be splinted to begin with. BUT...

She recommended the Harrison's diet. I primarily feed my birds Kay-Tee brand parakeet/finch seed with millet and greens/fruits on occasion. I know it's high in fat though, so she recommended that for added calcium.

She also told me to grab some hand-feeding formula, recommending the 'exact' brand as her personal favorite. She also told me that hand-feeding is easy.....which i'm a little skeptical about but....I'm a fast and careful learner...

She agreed with me, that one baby is obviously more impaired than the other, he's also more feisty and has inflammation to his bad-leg joint...:/.

I tried to take mama bird (Maya) with the babies but she wouldn't come and I didn't want to force her....Maya and I have a less than favorable bond...She knows I won't hurt her, but she doesn't seem to like me and I know that anytime I force her to do anything, she likes me less...But I know the vet will take care of them in her place...

Scarleau seems to like me most, he'll perch on my finger and stay by me. The rest of my birdies are less than eager to hang with me.

I think Scarleau favors me bec when I first brought him home, I'm not sure if his wings were clipped too far or maybe he was a little derpy but he was picked on by Maya. So I would take him out of the cage away from her and spend time with him on my finger to calm him and make him comfortable. He actually just recently re-gained his ability to fly controllably (at a little over 1 and 1/2 year).

Oh, another thing, I don't clip my birdies wings...I feel it's bad enough that I keep them in a cage...they should at least be able to utilize what 'god' gave them. I know it can be a safety issue, but they get better exercise this way and I don't have any mirrors or open windows in my room that'd cause major issues. I do have a kitty, but she's declawed and about 10yrs old...she watches them fly but...I've had them together for 2 years and she's never lunged or jumped for em. I'd still never leave them out unattended..but I suppose I push the envelope.

Kiwi, my other boy, likes to get out of his cage at random points in the day...He really started doing it when Maya's eggs hatched...there's a part of me that say's hes curious about the babies, but the logical person in me know's he's curious because they're a threat to him right now....I hate finding him out of his cage, usually he's sitting on top of Maya/Scarleau and the babies cage...next to his and cloudy's...and I'm sure it makes Maya nervous with him being above her and babies like that.

Cloudy likes to crane her neck to get a view of them, but she doesn't follow kiwi through the space in the bars. (There is a bar that's broken off nd it leaves him just enough space to get through...I keep a towel over that side of the cage to block it but he's smarter than that sometimes...)

He also makes me nervous because of Baby, my kitty. He's a very good flyer though, probably the best of all of my birds so it's very unlikely that she can catch him but....she's a cat.....and I just hate when he gets out and I'm unaware or worse...not in my room at all...but again, I never knowingly let them out alone...and have a near heart attack when I find him out alone.

Anyway, hopefully the vet calls soon.

 

[TiredOldMan]

Please keep us in the loop. Praying for a best case out come.

 

[Terry57]

I hope the vet calls soon with some good news!

 

[Budgiegirl38]

Just for reference as well, for anyone looking to take their bird to the vet for this procedure. The overall bill was $100 so far. They charge a $50 walk in fee and treated my babies as a 'litter' rather than 2 individual animals. And the splints costed me 15$ each. Totaled $100. Granted, this is the small animal and avian vet around my local area. Prices may vary but....this has been my experience.

Which is about what I expected but I was worried it'd run me closer to $250 because they're a specialty type animal vet and...with splayed leg....there could've been other things up with them....we have yet to see but I hope all goes well...

 

[Scott]

Hoping for a good report!

 

[Budgiegirl38]

So, the vet put 2 splints on each baby. A waddle splint and a surf board splint. One for their feet and one for their hips. The waddle splint is a pool noodle put around their butts and upper legs, the surf board splint is a tongue depressor taped to their feet. I'm to keep them in a 'towel nest' to keep them upright for the next week. I also need to keep them clean...which means picking them up...I'm worried about that because I don't want to ruin the splint...but I'm trying my best.

I've got syringes from the vet, exact feeding formula from pet supplies plus, and a candy thermometer just in case I need to start feeding them. the vet recommended I do regardless but...I'm nervous about doing it...

I think I'm going to switch up the parents diet, try to acclimate them to the healthier diet the vet recommended and hopefully that'll translate to the babies. They were really hungry when I brought them home (though they were fed at the vet) They tried to feed each-other on the way home...I forgot my towel to cover them. Anyway, Maya fed each one immediately, and then Scarleau came down from his perch and helped. So I think we're good on that front for now.

But the challenge is keeping the darker one...(thinking rocco, maybe trooper if its a he...)...the more splayed chick, in his splint. He's real fiesty, and wants no part of it. The whiter and less disabled chick is taking it like a champ...

Edit: no excess problems reported. She said they seem to both be healthy. The whiter, less disabled/always fed first chick was weighed at 33g. The darker, more disabled one weighed in at 31g. She didn't tell me exactly how healthy, So if they're underweight for 18 and 20 days...that would be another reason I should try to hand-feed.

Is there a way to practice hand feeding???

like mixing a mock batch of formula, mocking through the process, and feed into a kind of.....candy/frosting bag to monitor how much a pump is, bobbing rhythm, how long it should take, ect?

 

[TiredOldMan]

Way to go!

 

[Budgiegirl38]

I'm happy I took them. Worried that it may not work out, but I couldn't have made a splint like how the Vet did or do so w/o possibly causing more damage.

I'll get pictures on here soon...I don't have many, as I've really tried to leave them alone. But I have some of their first few days, and can take progress/day 1-7 on the splint...though they'll be posted later-on in the day...

Now I'm off to work...I've left my mom in charge of monitoring them...I've asked for every hour but...the vet said to clean them about 3 or 4 times per day.

I plan to watch when Maya feeds and check on them at least 45 min afterward. It prob wont take that long but, I don't want to disturb them 3 times after each feeding..

Maya has just fed them when they babies returned less than an hour ago, I've checked and didn't notice anything, hopefully my mom will catch it. Gotta blast.

 

[itzjbean]

Glad to hear you went to a vet and got them checked out!! I hope the splints stay on and they heal.

About the hand-feeding...it can be tricky. I'm not sure why the vet said it is easy, but to someone with no experience it can be a complicated process.

You can definitely make a 'practice' batch of the formula to get a feel for how it should be prepared, just in case you need to step in and feed. The most important things...

The temperature of the formula should be 104-106 degrees F. This can vary some, just don't be under 100 (too cold) and don't make it too hot (over 110).

The way to get it to the proper temperature is to use very hot water (either by microwave, or a hot tap), mixing it with formula and then waiting for it to cool to the proper temp, while stirring and making sure the formula is correct consistency. It should be mixed well and ends up looking like a gravy or runny pudding. Keep the formula warm as you feed by placing your container of mixed formula (glass is good) in another bigger container filled with very hot water.

Next you should rinse and clean out your syringe. Always clean (soap and water) after feeding chicks and let sit to air dry. Never keep formula to feed later, always make a fresh batch every time.

When you feed the baby, with the baby facing you, the syringe goes into the right side of their mouth and plunger goes down slowly. They should 'pump' down the formula eagerly.

How much to feed? 10-11% of the body weight at each feeding. So if you do not know their weights, it would be wise to get a gram scale. They are cheap and I got mine on Amazon for like $15-$20.

That's all I can think of now for tips on hand-feeding, please let us know if you have any more specific hand-feeding questions.

 

[EllenD]

Great information on handfeeding above...I too am perplexed about an Avian Vet saying that hand-feeding a baby bird is "easy", as that's exactly what can get you into trouble, thinking that it's easy and not focusing on what you're doing...It's not impossible to learn on your own without a mentor, but there are few things that are vital to pay attention to in order to keep the baby from aspirating the formula into it's lungs, and to keep the baby from developing slow-crop, crop-stasis, sour crop, etc.

#1) Always keep the candy thermometer in the formula, and as stated, keep the bowl you have the formula in inside a hot water bath to keep it between 104-110 degrees F. Anything above 110 degrees F can cause crop-burn, and anything below 104 degrees F can cause slow-crop and crop-stasis, influence yeast to grow in the crop, prevent the crop from emptying completely once every 24 hours, which it must, and the babies tend to not want to eat formula that is cooler than 100 degrees anyway, so their feeding response will stop if it's too cool. So keep a constant watch on the temperature of the thermometer in the formula and if it is too hot wait, if it is too cool then you can always add a bit of hot water to it, but mix it very, very, very well because it tends to develop hot-pockets inside that can burn the baby's crop.

#2) Be sure that if you are keeping the babies outside of a nest box before they are fully feathered that they themselves are warm enough, because if they themselves are too cold, then their crops will not empty and can develop the same issues that happen when the formula is too cool. When you first pull newly hatched chicks they must be kept between 96-98 degrees F, but at around 3 weeks old as your two are, they must still be kept at around 85 degrees until they are fully feathered. You don't need to run out and buy an expensive brooder, you can make one using either a plastic animal cage like you can buy at a pet shop, or if need be, even a cardboard box, it's not ideal, but it works. A heating pad placed underneath the back half of whatever you are keeping them in and then covering the back half with a towel or blanket will create a temperature gradient inside, with the back being the warm area and the front being a bit cooler if they get too hot.

#3). The younger the baby bird, the thinner you want to make the hand-feeding formula, and as they get older, the thicker you want to make it. This will keep their crops emptying and help with digestion. Kaytee Exact is a great hand-feeding formula, I used to use Roudybush but when it became harder to find and Kaytee Exact was all I had local access to I started using it, and I've never had an issue using it at all..

#4) When you go to actually feed the babies, as already stated, put the baby in front of you on a towel or paper towels, and make sure you have already wet paper towels with you so that you can wipe the excess formula off of the babies, as it will get all over them, and if you don't wipe it off right away it will become caked in their newly growing feathers and have to basically "grow out", so every time you're done feeding them be sure to wipe them down.

With the baby facing you, you want to insert the tip of the syringe into the bird's left side of the mouth, or if you're looking at the bird it's your right side. You always want to make sure that the syringe is going OVERTOP of the bird's tongue, never underneath, and you aim the tip of the syringe OVER AND ACROSS the tongue, towards the opposite side of the bird's mouth, it's right side or looking at the bird towards your left. The opening to a bird's crop is on the bird's right side of the back of it's throat, so that's where you want the tip of the syringe pointed, across and over the tongue towards the bird's right side of the back of it's throat (or with you facing the bird's face, you are aiming for the back of the throat on your left side). This procedure helps to avoid aspiration of the formula into the bird's lungs.

When you first push in a tiny amount of formula into the bird's mouth (and sometimes just from inserting the syringe into the mouth), the baby will start it's "feeding response", which is a head-bobbing motion that you will immediately recognize. The speed/rhythm of the baby's feeding response is what you follow when you are pushing formula in from the syringe. You go at the baby's pace, not your pace. If the baby stops the feeding response, you stop pushing the formula. They will take breaks, stop to swallow, etc. If this happens you stop and then start again when the baby is ready. You want a nice, full, round crop when you're done, and you'll need to very gently touch the crop, as it should be very round and full, like a balloon, but it should still have a little bit of give to it. Don't rely on the baby to stop eating when it should, you have to check it's crop. At first it's normal to think that you're feeding the baby too much, as their crops get enormous right after they finish a feeding, compared to the baby's overall size, but this is what you want, a nice, large, round, balloon-like crop that still has some give to it.

#4) I don't know if the vet went over a feeding schedule for you, but at 3 weeks you need to feed them once every 3-4 hours, at 4-5 weeks once every 4-5 hours (at this point they can go overnight for 6-7 hours without eating), and at 6 weeks and older every 5-6 hours. Their crops should be close to empty but don't have to be completely empty when you go to feed them, except first thing in the morning, when the crop should pretty much be empty. If you ever go to feed a baby at it's normal time and it doesn't appear that the crop has emptied much at all, then this is an indication that something is wrong. Usually this is a result of the formula being too cold, the baby being kept at too cold an ambient temperature, too thick a formula, or possibly a yeast/fungal infection developing in the crop, among other things..Usually checking the temps, specifically of the formula, can usually help, along with adding either a PROBIOTIC W/DIGESTIVE ENZYMES TO THE FORMULA, OR IF THAT ISN'T AVAILABLE, THEN ADD A TEASPOON OF APPLE CIDER VINEGAR TO THE FORMULA...If you ever have this issue and the crop appears to not have emptied at all between feedings, DO NOT FEED ANY MORE FORMULA AT THAT POINT, but instead give the baby 1ml of unflavored Pedialyte or Distilled Water mixed with a teaspoon of Apple Cider Vinegar, and then wait an hour and check to see if the crop is emptying. Usually this will fix the problem. From that point on you need to wait until the crop is close to empty and start feeding formula again that has the added probiotics w/digestive enzymes or the apple cider vinegar.

There are numerous issues that can and will arise, but when in doubt just come back onto this forum and post the question before doing anything. When in doubt, don't feed more formula until checking first, as overfilling the crop will result in more issues than you started with...

Best advice is to come and ask ANY questions you have.

 

[Budgiegirl38]

I'm going to start adding in some pictures here. These are all that I have so far of their growth. Some of them are also shots of my adult birds, Kiwi and cloudy are the green and blue ones together. Maya and Scarleau are the green and white birds (the breeding pair) that are together.

A little about cage size before I add pictures of my budgies lifestyle.
I wanted a larger-sized parrot type cage for my budgies so they'd have plenty of space, I haven't found one that I like enough yet, but I personally don't like how wide their current cage is.

Its definitely tall enough for them. But I do wish it was wider. When all 4 birds were together, I didn't keep them all in ONE of the cages you see in the pictures. I actually rigged the two cages that I have now into 1. I stacked them on top of one another (they're the exact same cage and fit well, when we got them in stock at my store, I bought 2 identical cages right off the bat, took the bottom off of one, flipped it upside down, put it on top of the other and added the top back onto the 'bottom' of the second cage) and made it a double high cage for the 4 of my birds. Obviously I took that 'cage' apart and left them as the original 2 cages for now because my 4 adults are separated...but yeah. Just to let everyone know I didn't keep 4 birds in one of the cages you see pictured here. They had more space than that. It was all vertical space which was a little scary but they had more space.

 

[Budgiegirl38]

Okay so, I have 4 more pictures but I've reached my limit. I'll leave these ones up for now. When I'm ready to post my other pictures I'll take them down after everyone's got to see em and I'll post the others.

The first pictures below are what they look like now. All wrapped up in their towel burrito's with a pool noodle around their butts....Maya doesn't seem to mind too much though.

This morning when I picked them up to check for swelling and droppings, Maya came down from her perch and started biting me...hard at first but she let up a bit. Then gave up. Shes reallllyyy defending them now. She used to just yell at me before. I'm not upset about it in the least. .

 

[Budgiegirl38]

Sorry everyone...noticed my picture's weren't what I necessarily wanted to add...trying to fix everything...

 

[Budgiegirl38]

Okay, there they all, all fixed.

Edit: Some of the before pictures are pretty sad...No baby bird should be 'cared for' in this manner. They really need a proper environment to ensure the right growth and development. Don't make the mistakes I did.

 

[gracebowen]

Thank you for the update. Glad they are on the mend.

 

[EllenD]

Okay, there they all, all fixed.

Edit: Some of the before pictures are pretty sad...No baby bird should be 'cared for' in this manner. They really need a proper environment to ensure the right growth and development. Don't make the mistakes I did.

Your willingness to learn from your mistakes is refreshing, as well as very responsible and caring. I thank you for this...

 

[Budgiegirl38]

Hi all, I don't have pictures to post of them today but they're still in the splints. Maya must've helped Marla out of her pool noodle earlier today but...I've got it back on. Maya does NOT like me going in her cage, whenever I go in there to check on the babies (4 times a day) she jumps on my arm and bites the crap out of me. I have to wear gloves now when I'm doing this because she's such a fighter...:/. A little nibble here and there doesn't bother me, and I have a high pain tolerance, but jeesh.

Now, question regarding their dressings. The vet told me to keep them clean and I'm doing my best but.....yeah

I'm able to get the clumps off of their bandages and from between their legs, I refuse to leave clumps on them to dry....but there is still poop on the bandage from wiping, I know its kinda a silly question but....is there a way to get that crud off of there?

Marla is spotless clean, because of how the splint is on her. Her droppings fall behind her in the bottom of the cage. Rocco on the other hand, poops right on his splint, right inbetween his little feet. I'm worried about infection. Does anyone know of a good solution to use that is safe on their skin? ALSO, when wiping their legs, how careful do I need to be about pushing (to wipe), especially on rocco, whose leg looks inflamed. Will I do harm if I wipe too hard/push too hard?

I've thought of findings something to use as a scraper. to scrape at the bandages and pry the flattened/stuck to the bandage left-overs off....Would this work? could I cause harm?

ALSO, the vet told me to look for swelling. Marla is fine, but Rocco appears to have some swelling on his bad leg. And it's not that the leg has swelled....but it's darker in color and looks inflamed. (when my mom gets home, I could have her hold him and take a picture of my concern...) It's not quite blowing up (swelling) but it looks swelled (darker in color)....is this a concern? Are the bandages too tight? The vet will loosen them if i need them to but should I try myself? I will if its an emergency...

 

[EllenD]

I would definitely be concerned about any changes in skin color or any swelling in either of their legs, as yes, something with the splint is probably cutting the circulation off to his leg. That's not good...

If it were my bird, I would remove the bandage/splint immediately from Rocco, and then get him back to the vet tomorrow/whenever is the soonest you can...better a bird with splayed legs than a bird with no legs. Plus, it will be hurting him too if that's the case...

Someone else will chime-in soon with their opinion of what to do, but since the bandages/splint is also very dirty, which is probably impossible to clean off, I'd take it all off ASAP and then get him back to the vet for a new splint/bandages to be put on. They are such small birds, it can't take too much time for a lack of circulation to cause damage...

 

[Budgiegirl38]

Update:
I decided to get an appointment for today because I was concerned about the color of Rocco's leg. Though, today when I cleaned them this morning, his leg looked much more pink and better than it had for the past couple of days.

I didn't mess with the splint because I was under the assumption that the redness was likely due to inflammation and irritation. Had I noticed any purple-like coloration I would've tore the splint off asap, but it stayed a red color so I didn't intervene. His leg also wasn't swelling, which was the big indicator she told me to look for. Today, the doctor didn't mention anything about the redness in Rocco's leg (I did inquire to the technician, had there been something wrong I'm sure the vet would've said something) I'm happy I didn't go muddling with the splint either way.

During their check-up today the vet said that they each are showing improvements but we're not out of the woods yet. She re-did both of their splints and instructed me to bring them back in 7-10 days. She also removed the pool noodles and said they're optional, as long as they're standing upright they're fine (they're comfortably propped up on their towel nests). Rocco is very happy about this, he was really struggling with his pool noodle.

I did notice though, with Marla, the doctor has her splinted slightly different than before. Either that, OR Marla has already jerked her foot out of the tape (which i think is unlikely). Before, the doctor had each foot taped flat over and standing on top of the Popsicle stick ('surfboard' splint), with front toes sticking out of the tape in the front and back toes sticking out the back. NOW, her right foot is taped like it had been before, but her left foot looks like her front and back toes are pinched together in the tape. So her left foot isn't planted on the stick, but taped right above it. Marla's knee joint on this foot his bent at a higher position than the other joint as well. I think the vet may've done this to correct Marla from twisting at her ankles. I noticed she likes to try to turn herself in the splint...but when she does this she straightens one leg (the splayed one) slightly. She can't do this with how she is taped now. I'm just wondering, will Marla's foot be sore from being in that position for 7-10 days? Pinched like that? or will it open up like normal after alls said and done?

The doctor did weigh them and said they look healthy otherwise. Though I didn't ask exactly what they weighed and I am curious. Just from watching my birds I can tell that Marla is the favored one. Maya feeds both babies but, I'm not sure how well she feeds Rocco and I wish I would've gotten their weights. Marla is the older of the two so of coarse she is going to be slightly bigger. But...I wish I knew because if I knew that one was being nourished more than the other I would try to hand feed him/them.

My manager gave me some of his insight on hand feeding and I'm not SO nervous about doing it anymore...he asked me how my baby birds were and I told him, he asked if I was feeding and I told him my situation. He kinda scoffed at me and told me that it's a little nerve racking at first but there's nothing to be worried about. He said the most important thing to pay attention too is the temp of the food and keeping it warm enough after drawing it into the syringe. He said he usually pumps small amounts into the bottom of the birds beak and from there the budgie will drink it down.

I don't work at a chain type store, its a locally owned aquatics specialties store that dabbles in birds, small animals and reptiles. Our employees are tacitly required to have experiential knowledge with the animals and equipment we sell. So, I trust what my manager said and I know he has birds of his own as well. I'm thankful for this forum and it's members though. Thanks to EllenD and others, I've noted the anatomy of the bird and exactly where the food should be going...With that information coupled with my managers advice, don't feel so nervous about it.

I think I'm going to continue to let Maya feed her babies her way and I will pick up hand-feeding only if she stops feeding them herself, I'm trying to get her to eat the Harrison's diet as well, she nibbles on it..

I think this is interesting. So, hear me out, mainstream media says birds eat seed, right? I feel like any unassuming person would believe that a seed diet is healthy and a pelleted/ staple diet is not...Its just interesting how far from the truth media and assumptions can bring people.

Edit: Today they are about 23 and 25 days old. Their colors are coming in wonderfully. Marla will be white, yellow and blue. Rocco (Trooper [pooper]...lol poor baby) is turning out grey, with blue and teal-y/Green tints. And...subconsciously I've assigned them genders. I know logically I won't be able to sex them reliably for quite some time...but Rocco's cere is a lavender color as opposed to Marla's light pink-y cere....I'm just spit-balling but, I'm going with it for now. I had to alter their fathers name after a year of having him, I'm sure I could do the same for them if need be. That seems cruel...but I've gotta call them something and birdie 1 and 2 just isn't cutting it.

 

[gillian61]

cut a plastic drinking straw about 1 inch long and put a loom band down the middle with both loops sticking out the ends put one loop around chiks ankle then the other loop around other ankle keep on for a week and this will solve the problem.