Taming Mango the Plum headed Parakeet

Mallory

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Positive reinforcement uses a reward to encourage a behavior. A reward is something inherently pleasant and positive - this can be petting, calm talking, or a treat but every bird is reinforced by different things. In your case, Mango is not earning a reward for becoming more comfortable. Instead, you are applying the pressure of being close to him which is technically an aversive. It's not causing him pain but it is causing him a bit of discomfort because it makes him nervous. The reinforcement in your case is coming when you take away the aversive (stepping back or even leaving the room) in response to him calming down. This works and there's nothing wrong with it, but you should understand that it is not positive reinforcement. Using a clicker does not inherently make it positive reinforcement, it is just helping to indicate the behavior being reinforced. In this case, it is communicating that the action Mango performed when he heard the click is what caused you to step back.

Desensitization is negative reinforcement and you can even take it as far as using flooding - exposing the animal to the new "scary" stimulus until they calm down and realize it is not hurting them and it becomes a neutral stimulus. Examples of flooding are tying a saddle to a horse and letting them buck until they give up and tolerate the saddle, or holding a parrot in a towel until they stop struggling and realize they are not being hurt. Flooding can work and has been used successfully on humans and other animals but it crosses the line into abuse and you can do some serious damage if you are not careful. There are much easier ways to train. I don't think you have ever used flooding but I think we should define it here for anyone reading. Sitting near the cage of a bird who is clearly distressed and never backing up or relieving that pressure when you see the bird start to calm down is a form of flooding some "parrot trainers" will recommend.

If you wanted to instead use positive reinforcement, you would give him something he views as positive when he performed the behavior you wanted. The obvious positive reinforcement here is offering him a treat when he starts calming down. The added benefit of doing this is that Mango also starts associating your presence with a positive - the treat - whereas with your current method you are only becoming something neutral. Basically, positive reinforcement can help your bird to like you whereas desensitization helps your bird to tolerate and not be scared of you. Of course, not all birds accept treats in the same way and some just won't until they become used to training, so it's up to you to find the way to get through to each individual bird.
 

RavensGryf

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:smile049: Well said Mallory. Spot on! Thank you for your valuable posts to this forum :).
 
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Mango7218

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I definitely want to use positive reinforcement.So if my method is negative reinforcement what can I do to tame him now? This is so hard I cant even do it by target training because he will just be scared.And I just found out Mango is actually just over 2 years old but I know any bird can be tamed no matter what age.He is also isn't really eating lately he will eat his seed but isn't really interested in his fruit or veg much.
 

JerseyWendy

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Mango is no less than 2 1/2 years old since we established that 30 months = 2 years and 6 months, and that is the MININUM age for them to obtain their adult colors. :)
 
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Mango7218

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Mango is no less than 2 1/2 years old since we established that 30 months = 2 years and 6 months, and that is the MININUM age for them to obtain their adult colors. :)

At least I know his real age now lol.Any tips on taming.
 
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Mango7218

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Wooohoooo Mango stepped up on my flat hand so I tried it again using a flat hand and he did it he stepped up a few times so now im just gonna work on that im so proud.
 
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Mango7218

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He now is stepping up on my hand but still a bit weary of it.All that in one day wow how I didn't even try I just asked him and he did it.
 
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Mango7218

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Update: I discovered its my finger he is less scared of and im actually able to push against his chest without him flying off and he stepped up yay.He used to fly off before I even got near him and now I can touch his chest lol.Some improvement all in one day.Im giving him a little break and then ill continue.
 

Mallory

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It sounds like great progress. Keep up the consistent work and you will get far with Mango! Be careful using chest pressure to ask for a step up though. It's easy to get into the habit of "forcing" the bird to step up using the chest pressure and that can cause problems later on. I always make sure I ask my birds instead of telling them to step up - and if they don't want on my hands that's their choice.

I would really work on getting Mango to accept a treat from your hands or a food bowl. The reason being once you get Mango comfortable with the basics - step up, step down, etc. - it would be great to be able to "trick train" him! This will not only help you continue building your relationship, it will also be valuable experience you can go back to when working with others' birds. Plus it really helps if you can show someone you were able to train your previously untamed parrot and now he has a big trick repertoire!

Once you get into "trick training" you basically have to use positive reinforcement. There are some people who have trained tricks with aversives but most examples are "old-school" and fairly brutal - think horror stories from mistreated circus elephants and prong collar dog training classes. But please don't feel like desensitization or negative reinforcement is a bad thing! I can think of personal examples where I have used positive reinforcement, negative reinforcement, negative punishment and even positive punishment (all 4 of the "types" of operant conditioning) in a fair and appropriate way. It's your job as a trainer to determine what is best for each situation! But that's enough technical talk.

For now keep up the good work! Today sounds like it's been a breakthrough for both of you.
 
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Mango7218

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I think ill let him rest now we will try again in the morning.I think I could get him to eat from me since I can have my hands close to him without him flying off.But just a few hours ago I couldn't do that.
 

JerseyWendy

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At least I know his real age now lol.Any tips on taming.

In another thread you said that Mango has a flightsuit, but that you have stopped using it. Did you force it on him before? Could this be the reason why he's being a bit hesitant around your hands?
 
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Mango7218

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At least I know his real age now lol.Any tips on taming.

In another thread you said that Mango has a flightsuit, but that you have stopped using it. Did you force it on him before? Could this be the reason why he's being a bit hesitant around your hands?
Mango willingly will hop into a towel so I used that to put the flightsuit on and he would let me but if I used my hands he wouldn't.But even that I dont think its right and I think it is kind of forcing even if he likes going outside.Also he was always scared of my hands since I got him.The good thing is he is getting used to my hands.He now always steps up on my flat hand but im still trying to get him used to going on my finger and he did a few times.And I praised him.
 

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