What do you do with no diagnosis?

[Christinenc2000]

Jimmy's CBC and liver bile results came back! Her biles are good, but CBC came back with high count of white blood cells.

She has an appointment with the vet tomorrow.

I hope this is what has been causing the trouble and is easy to fix.

I'm scared, but this is the first time anything has shown anything, so also hopeful. This has been going on so long and I am ready for it to be resolved.

You are doing such a good job. Hang in there and keep us updated.

 

[RavensGryf]

Good luck at the vet. I hope they get an accurate diagnosis for Jimmy, and can find a cure once and for all.

 

[Piasa]

I am so thankful for the thoughts and prayers

We didn't do any DNA viral testing since the tests can't give a reliable negative and both are small birds that can't spare much blood, so no ABV or PDD tests. They are both maintaining weight and X-rays looked good, no undigested foods. I am terrified of PDD and hope we never have to go there.

So much has happened to the poor guys this year. My mind has been down all these different paths and scenarios - gotta try to stay sane! :30:

 

[Piasa]

Back from vet. The WBC doesn't really tell us much except she probably has some inflammation. It could be anything (bacteria, virus, parasite, fungus) or nothing.

Both birds are going on Baytril again. Beau has been on it twice for this already and Jimmy once. However, we never know if it's something new or old when something happens. Blood retest for Jimmy after the antibiotic. Right now, the symptoms we want to go away are bubbles in poop and dry sneezing (both birds). The other stuff may be behavior at this point.

I'm feeling hopeless again.

 

[Christinenc2000]

I'm sorry you are feeling hopeless. Hang in there. You are doing a great job taking care of them.

 

[Piasa]

I took a closer look at both blood tests and did some reading. All new to me and interesting.

Both Jimmy and Beau's CBC have notes at the bottom that the white blood cells called heterophils are degranulated. Apparently that means these cells are breaking down from attacking an infection. Beau's test from January showed mild degranulation with normal WBC count which according to my reading is caused by stress or a red flag to watch for an infection, and Jimmy's is moderate with a high WBC count which indicates an infection is happening (the test says bacterial or fungal).

I have to call the vet tomorrow anyway, so maybe I can get a little more info about how to pin down the infection. I hope the Baytril works. Since they've both been on it though, I don't feel confident. If we can find out what is going on, then we can do a culture and sensitivity to get the right antibiotic or antifungal.

Next step is having questions ready for the conference this weekend. And being ready to learn.

Waiting again :52:

 

[JerseyWendy]

Please don't feel hopeless. There is ALWAYS hope!

I'm confident you'll get some answers from your vet today when you call. I can imagine your head may want to explode over the weekend, at the conference, with SO much information to be absorbed. :11:

Hang in there, ok?

 

[Scott]

You are doing such a wonderful job with Beau and Jimmy, and it seems your vet clinic has taken genuine interest.

While Baytril is an effective broad-spectrum antibiotic, it would be nice to have evidence pointing to a more targeted drug.

I hope you get more clarity this weekend.

 

[RavensGryf]

I hope the vet can find the root to the cause of this asap! Time to do aggressively get to the bottom of this, if your vet can't, I'd ask if they can refer you. Wishing you all the best. Sometimes it does take a fresh set of eyes and the experience of different vets. Raven took almost 2 years to get to the bottom of his issues that stemmed from an accident he had as a chick. Sometimes things are more complicated than they seem. He saw 3 different avian vets, and still has to get monitored all his life, but at least I found a vet who knows for certain what the root is. That is what I hope for you. Good luck with your precious babies!

 

[Piasa]

Thank you all so much...

I am feeling a little better today. I got the go ahead to give them neem tea baths to maybe help with plucking and skin issues. I am literally at the vet once a week or more, for months now, so at least I get the opportunity to ask a lot of questions

Next week after Jimmy's laser therapy, I also scheduled a nasal flush to help her out. I think they can test the mucous too. I'm also going to see about a referral for a second look.

You're right Julie, I need to be relentless again! Can I ask what kind of diagnostics helped with Raven's case? I know it's probably very different, but could give some ideas.

Hanging in

 

[RavensGryf]

I don't want to derail your thread about your babies, but only since you asked, here is the deal with my Raven in the links below. You can skim through my original posts there and get an idea how I truly know what you are dealing with. I still worry.

Number one diagnostic tool used by the 3rd vet (sees only avians) is digital x-ray. This takes away a lot of guess work and other tests, so can save money in the long run with a difinitive diagnosis right there (depending on if it's something that shows on x-ray), but is initially expensive. Of course it only helps if the vet is familiar and confident with using it as a diagnostic tool.

http://www.parrotforums.com/pionus/54123-raven-s-vet-visit-getting-bottom-finally.html
http://www.parrotforums.com/general...isit-interesting-info-about-his-handicap.html
http://www.parrotforums.com/pionus/56127-update-raven.html

 

[Piasa]

Forgive such a basic question, but digital x-ray, is this different than a conventional x-ray?

I read your threads - not a derail at all! I am so glad you managed to detect and get Raven's fungal infection cleared up!

Actually it doesn't sound too far off from some of what's going on with Jimmy. She's been head flicking too, and rubbed the feathers off from right above her nose. I know she doesn't feel well. She used to be super active, but now just sits around unless I take her out to fly.

 

[RavensGryf]

Forgive such a basic question, but digital x-ray, is this different than a conventional x-ray?

I read your threads - not a derail at all! I am so glad you managed to detect and get Raven's fungal infection cleared up!

Actually it doesn't sound too far off from some of what's going on with Jimmy. She's been head flicking too, and rubbed the feathers off from right above her nose. I know she doesn't feel well. She used to be super active, but now just sits around unless I take her out to fly.

COPY/PASTED FROM WIKI:
[Digital radiography is a form of X-ray imaging, where digital X-ray sensors are used instead of traditional photographic film. Advantages include time efficiency through bypassing chemical processing and the ability to digitally transfer and enhance images. Also, less radiation can be used to produce an image of similar contrast to conventional radiography.

Instead of X-ray film, digital radiography uses a digital image capture device. This gives advantages of immediate image preview and availability; elimination of costly film processing steps; a wider dynamic range, which makes it more forgiving for over- and under-exposure; as well as the ability to apply special image processing techniques that enhance overall display quality of the image.]

I am going to have to take Raven in periodically probably for the rest of his life for this since he will always be more susceptible than other birds to Aspergillosis and other fungal illness. It's the only sure way to tell the difference between that and his allergies.

I wish you nothing but the best and for you to get to the bottom of this with your beloved Jimmy and Beau. I know it's got to be so emotionally draining for you.

 

[Pinkbirdy]

I have had sick dying birds before and been to the vets many times. I want to help you with my experience and what I know. If your bird has a high white blood cell count . I pretty sure it has a infection that its not going to get rid of itself. Your medicine should not take weeks to figure out its not working. Theirs lots of other stuff to try [what are they waiting for?]. You know its dangerous when you have a ill bird to continually take it to the vets for retesting . They are getting weaker and can be very stressed at the process . My Blue and Gold died in front of me as they were taking him . Birds when they are showing signs of illness do not have all the time in the world. Your vet should be checking in with you and have a game plan ready for if things are not working. Theirs a sight called allbirdproducts.com where you can order medication for your bird . I would read through the site and ask the vet if you could use any of that not off the site but in a form from them. I had a bird with a high white blood count . Tried lots of Baytril for months [she was in horrible shape ] near death. I as a last resort traveled to a animal hospital that had Avian specialist . Thought my bird had cancer cause nothing had worked . Nope ,no cancer . Baytril though safe to use will not TOUCH MOST BIRD ILLNESSES !!!!! My bird was almost dead they would have gladly kept taking my money and doing test. This place made me understand that their is alot more things to try. What worked for me was Doxycycline . All they had to do was use the right medicine !!! Do whats best for your bird call your vet out on things . As I said you dont have all the time in the world with birds.

 

[Piasa]

How do you find someone you know is qualified and can trust? I have the means to take them virtually anywhere on the east coast, but I don't know where to go or whom to trust.

I am not sure my vet knows what to do next.

I am desperate at this point, but I also don't know what to do, or maybe how to do it.

 

[JerseyWendy]

I don't know how far my avian vet(s) are from you, but I can and would recommend both Dr. Mickley and Dr. Doolen from Norstar Vets. Dr. Doolen is NOT avian certified, however, he's been in the business for some 30 years. I don't think there is anything he hasn't 'seen' or 'experienced' yet. I truly love that man! http://www.northstarvets.com

 

[Pinkbirdy]

Time to try a new vet .Explain the Baytril has been tried and want to do something different.You want to stress your Bird as little as possible .So your not doing a million trips.Go on that site allbirdproducts.com read through it call the 800 number and ask your vet about these medications through him.Be in the driver's seat for your Bird.Keep bugging your vet.Or if you get desperate you can try the medicine on that site.It's safe I've used it.It comes in a diluted form that you put in their water.Works better than the Baytril.

 

[Piasa]

Just a quick update. I had Jimmy in for a nasal flush today, testing the mucous - results soon, potentially on Monday. We will be changing the medicine for both birds according to what we get back, or if there is any question, my vet is referring me to a specialist.

Wendy, I have Norstar info pocketed it's about 3.5 hours from where my parents live, so if I can't get anywhere locally, I am calling them. THANK YOU! for recommending and being so supportive.

Pink Birdy, I did just as you suggested with the meds list and asking the vet. She has been good with us, and now things are moving again in the right direction. I really appreciate your candid and detailed advice.

 

[Piasa]

The bacteria and cytology labwork isn't back yet, but Jimmy is in for laser therapy tomorrow so I am going to insist on starting new antibiotic and an antifungal for both birds immediately. Referral is in the process but everything is so slow. I am so frustrated.

I got some helpful advice at the conference about the mutilating. One thing I am going to try for Jimmy's mutilation is having the laser treatment on her neck as well as on the mutilation wound. There's a possibility that a nerve was impinged when her neck was injured by an incompetent vet back in Feb. Chiropractics is also an option, but I'd need to find someone trustworthy nearby, so that may not happen until I am in a position to move.

Yesterday, I started Beau on neem tea as a herbal remedy, for lack of anything better. He took a bath in it too trying to focus on the good stuff while we wait. More tomorrow (news, good news I hope).

 

[Allee]

I'm hoping to hear good news very soon. I feel awful for you, I know it can be frustrating to wait when you need answers and positive results.

I've heard great things about laser therapy, I hope Jimmy benefits from it.

Please keep us updated.