African Grey price increase due to Defra / Article 10?

[hucker]

So, what is your real reason for Posting this Thread? The tour seems to have spirited far from addressing the founding issue regarding Defra, article 10 and it adding to the cost of African Grey Parrots in England...

And No, I have no want to add to this tour... Bye...

I posted for the reason I stated in the first post, I was wondering why the doubling in price, and whether it's helping or hindering the furthering of the African Grey species.

And why do you have a problem with the art of conversation? You should try it some time. We're all learning from each other.

Hmmm, if true, why are you banned so very often?

Because I upset people like you. You need to go have a drink and calm down.

And why did you lie when you said you weren't going to participate further in this conversation? Are you deliberately looking for an argument? I suggest you grow up.

 

[noodles123]

I posted for the reason I stated in the first post, I was wondering why the doubling in price, and whether it's helping or hindering the furthering of the African Grey species.

And why do you have a problem with the art of conversation? You should try it some time. We're all learning from each other.

Hmmm, if true, why are you banned so very often?

Because I upset people like you. You need to go have a drink and calm down.

Hey-- chill- this can stay constructive--- this is the point at which a moderator will see the thread and take issue. Bring it back down!

 

[hucker]

So, what is your real reason for Posting this Thread? The tour seems to have spirited far from addressing the founding issue regarding Defra, article 10 and it adding to the cost of African Grey Parrots in England...

And No, I have no want to add to this tour... Bye...

I posted for the reason I stated in the first post, I was wondering why the doubling in price, and whether it's helping or hindering the furthering of the African Grey species.

And why do you have a problem with the art of conversation? You should try it some time. We're all learning from each other.

Stay civil- Sailboat is awesome- just probably saw all of our ranting and didn't read it all (I mean, I wouldn't...it's a long and winding road).

Well you did go on a bit

There is no reason for someone to jump into our conversation and moan it's not "on topic". I guess Sailboat has OCD, I can't stand those people.

 

[hucker]

Hmmm, if true, why are you banned so very often?

Because I upset people like you. You need to go have a drink and calm down.

Hey-- chill- this can stay constructive--- this is the point at which a moderator will see the thread and take issue. Bring it back down!

I am not the one being uncivil. You and I are having a sensible conversation, then this Sailboat person appears and grumbles for no reason. And for the record I don't give a damn if I'm banned. Sailboat can go crying to mummy if he wants.

 

[hucker]

Just make sure that the welded mesh doesn't contain zinc etc, or you could have issues with metal poisoning down the road.

They're all galvanised. You'd better inform every single manufacturer of them if you think it's harmful! They're sold for parrot aviaries all over the UK, everyone uses them.

Galvanized is bad- and they probably know that...It's all about the money. It won't hurt a chicken or a small bird (in theory) but a long-lived parrot with a strong beak could be looking at chelation therapy long-term.

Well it's all there is available. And I don't see damage to it so I can only assume they aren't ingesting it. It's not actually a poison per se. They do need zinc, just not too much.

If it was that bad, it would be banned. It is specifically sold for parrot aviaries.

 

[noodles123]

Sailboat is entitled to say that what was said- slinging back and forth won't help this thread unless it seems productive.

 

[bigfellasdad]

LOL- Come on now, Sailboat---while you are correct, this is what sometimes happens! I am not sure of original intent, but I definitely voiced opinions that probably swayed things off-topic lol. DK....

Or, as a result of a pre-determined goal?
You placed a ton of work here and for the views great points.

I don't mind a civil argument-- I wasn't able to find compost for my garden, so I've got time lol!

I can get you some compost

Lol, thread has gone off topic but its remained interesting and Hucker seems to be a parrot lover, so he gets my vote...... but i think we are going to have to keep an eye on him :56:

 

[noodles123]

They're all galvanised. You'd better inform every single manufacturer of them if you think it's harmful! They're sold for parrot aviaries all over the UK, everyone uses them.

Galvanized is bad- and they probably know that...It's all about the money. It won't hurt a chicken or a small bird (in theory) but a long-lived parrot with a strong beak could be looking at chelation therapy long-term.

Well it's all there is available. And I don't see damage to it so I can only assume they aren't ingesting it. It's not actually a poison per se. They do need zinc, just not too much.

It's more of a long-term issue--the powdered bits and what not. There is more out there- it is just expensive "made of gold" as you jested (stainless is the gold of the parrot world-- or powder coated)

 

[hucker]

Sailboat is entitled to say that what was said- slinging back and forth won't help this thread unless it seems productive.

And I'm entitled to disagree with him. Conversations drift, if he can't understand that he needs to go back to school.

 

[hucker]

Or, as a result of a pre-determined goal?
You placed a ton of work here and for the views great points.

I don't mind a civil argument-- I wasn't able to find compost for my garden, so I've got time lol!

I can get you some compost

Lol, thread has gone off topic but its remained interesting and Hucker seems to be a parrot lover, so he gets my vote...... but i think we are going to have to keep an eye on him :56:

You won't have to, Sailboat will report me any second now for being "abusive". There's always one child in a forum that can't handle a discussion.

 

[hucker]

Galvanized is bad- and they probably know that...It's all about the money. It won't hurt a chicken or a small bird (in theory) but a long-lived parrot with a strong beak could be looking at chelation therapy long-term.

Well it's all there is available. And I don't see damage to it so I can only assume they aren't ingesting it. It's not actually a poison per se. They do need zinc, just not too much.

It's more of a long-term issue--the powdered bits and what not. There is more out there- it is just expensive "made of gold" as you jested (stainless is the gold of the parrot world-- or powder coated)

I bought the decent galvanised stuff - as in proper electrolysis treatment, not just coated that rubs off. It lasts longer in the wet aswell as not poisoning them.

 

[bigfellasdad]

Well it's all there is available. And I don't see damage to it so I can only assume they aren't ingesting it. It's not actually a poison per se. They do need zinc, just not too much.

If it was that bad, it would be banned. It is specifically sold for parrot aviaries.

I wouldn't always trust 'parrot safe', there was a place in cheshire i was looking at recently that sold aviary panels that you could construct your own, pretty certain bar spacing was good for greys and they where also enamelled so definitely safe.

Having an indoor aviary sounds cool as it would save the rest of the house, Enzo has free reign. My house however is too small for that.. Im currently selling my other house which is 3x the size of my current house, maybe i should sell this one and keep that one lol

 

[noodles123]

I don't know a ton about that, as I have avoided galvanized, but if you ever see issues, there are metal panels and things that can be run but you have to catch it in time. I know a guy who had to do chelation therapy for his parrot because he let him play with an unused toothbrush and the head contained copper bits that were never swallowed in whole, but entered his body through contact.

 

[hucker]

I don't know a ton about that, as I have avoided galvanized, but if you ever see issues, there are metal panels and things that can be run but you have to catch it in time. I know a guy who had to do chelation therapy for his parrot because he let him play with an unused toothbrush and the head contained copper bits that were never swallowed in whole, but entered his body through contact.

I will keep an eye on it and mention it to my vet. I assume a blood test would tell me if there was too much zinc in their blood.

So stainless steel is perfectly safe?

And copper in a toothbrush? Mine is plastic with bristles. I've never seen metal in a toothbrush.

 

[noodles123]

I don't know a ton about that, as I have avoided galvanized, but if you ever see issues, there are metal panels and things that can be run but you have to catch it in time. I know a guy who had to do chelation therapy for his parrot because he let him play with an unused toothbrush and the head contained copper bits that were never swallowed in whole, but entered his body through contact.

I will keep an eye on it and mention it to my vet. I assume a blood test would tell me if there was too much zinc in their blood.

So stainless steel is perfectly safe?

Stainless steel is safe to the best of my knowledge, and generally, non-toxic powder coated wrought iron cages are safe as long as the powder coating is solid and doesn't contain sketchy materials (the iron can be an amalgam but that is why the coating must be solid and then hopefully, the amalgam itself is still safe)-- finding that out can be difficult.
You have to run a metal panel on your bird's blood specifically if you want to know for sure. You can take metal to a shop and have them test the contents though (some with the coating)

If you look under the bristles, each is held in place by a VERY small bit of metal (tiny brackets)--why they would use copper???I have no clue..seems costly, but it's the truth, at least in his case.

 

[hucker]

I wouldn't always trust 'parrot safe', there was a place in cheshire i was looking at recently that sold aviary panels that you could construct your own, pretty certain bar spacing was good for greys and they where also enamelled so definitely safe.

Having an indoor aviary sounds cool as it would save the rest of the house, Enzo has free reign. My house however is too small for that.. Im currently selling my other house which is 3x the size of my current house, maybe i should sell this one and keep that one lol

My house is 7m x 7m floorspace. Plus the 2.5m x 5m conservatory I just built. The parrots are welcome to 3.5 x 1.5m of the house

Wow, downsizing, what a strange idea. So Enzo is never shut in anywhere? Don't you find things destroyed when you wake up?

 

[hucker]

I don't know a ton about that, as I have avoided galvanized, but if you ever see issues, there are metal panels and things that can be run but you have to catch it in time. I know a guy who had to do chelation therapy for his parrot because he let him play with an unused toothbrush and the head contained copper bits that were never swallowed in whole, but entered his body through contact.

I will keep an eye on it and mention it to my vet. I assume a blood test would tell me if there was too much zinc in their blood.

So stainless steel is perfectly safe?

Stainless steel is safe to the best of my knowledge, and generally, non-toxic powder coated wrought iron cages are safe as long as the powder coating is solid and doesn't contain sketchy materials (the iron can be an amalgam but that is why the coating must be solid and then hopefully, the amalgam itself is still safe)-- finding that out can be difficult.
You have to run a metal panel specifically if you want to know for sure.

I've seen powder coated cages (made by "King cages" I think). I didn't like the sound of coated. Sounds like it can come off. And I have seen it rubbed away on someone else's cage. I don;'t care what's in the powder, if bits come off the parrot will ingest a lot at once which I don't like the sound of. At least with galvanised I can't believe they'd take much in at once.

 

[noodles123]

You are not incorrect, but galvanized has a rather problematic history in terms of parrots. If what lies beneath the powder coat (and the coating itself) is relatively safe, then ingestion is often a non-issue (for the most part...assuming true non-toxic content-and assuming they don't consume any actual chunks). The problem is, that it can be difficult to ascertain the contents even with extensive calling.
I mean, if your bird is gnawing away at something and actually eating it, it is a problem if it isn't food, but the issue with metals is that they can be ingested in very small quantities over time and lead to issues down the road- even just through contact.

 

[hucker]

You are not incorrect, but galvanized has a rather problematic history in terms of parrots. If what lies beneath the powder coat (and the coating itself) is relatively safe, then ingestion is often a non-issue (for the most part...assuming true non-toxic content-and assuming they don't consume any actual chunks). The problem is, that it can be difficult to ascertain the contents even with extensive calling.
I mean, if your bird is gnawing away at something and actually eating it, it is a problem if it isn't food, but the issue with metals is that they can be ingested in very small quantities over time and lead to issues down the road- even just through contact.

I'm assuming that because zinc is actually required in small amounts, that it's not one of those things that builds up forever. But I will try to buy stainless steel if I can get it next time. It's certainly not coming off the mesh that I can see. It was hard enough to find someone that sold solid mesh! Most suppliers were selling that chicken wire stuff, which you will know can be destroyed instantly by beaks.

 

[noodles123]

You wouldn't be able to see it if it were- let me see if I can find you a link and then I need to actually go try to locate some compost because apparently, the truck that delivers to all of the stores in my area was blocked or flipped, and now I need composted manure and can't get it unless I go knocking on doors lol....either way-- I need to plant these seeds or I will lose the season.