Cone?

[katiea]

My rescue cockatiel mutilates, she's been doing better but today I came home to her beak covered in blood. I took her to the vet right away, she's fine. She's never hurt herself this badly though, just little scabs here and there so I was more focused on her plucking/barbering. The vet recommended a cone in case she has another "freak out" while I'm not home. I don't know what caused this, she started stepping up and hanging out with me more, and she got a new toy recently that she's been so happy about. Anyways...I don't know anything about cones except they're fleece and I just ordered one. Do I need to train her to accept it like a harness or just put it on right away to protect her?

 

[noodles123]

Hmm...that is tough. If anxiety is the cause of her plucking, then my answer would be different than if she was plucking to alleviate boredom or something.
My gut instinct says that if she is going to town that much, that you might just want to put it on, but if she is already scared, you could upset her. Is it possible that the vet could put it on her for you so that you are not the "bad guy"..Afterwards, monitor her to make sure she is eating and drinking and also make sure she doesn't start picking at new areas like her ankles etc.


Sometimes it can just be a bad habit that is very hard to break even after the cause of the initial habit is alleviated. Good luck!

 

[katiea]

Hmm...that is tough. If anxiety is the cause of her plucking, then my answer would be different than if she was plucking to alleviate boredom or something.
My gut instinct says that if she is going to town that much, that you might just want to put it on, but if she is already scared, you could upset her. Is it possible that the vet could put it on her for you so that you are not the "bad guy"..Afterwards, monitor her to make sure she is eating and drinking and also make sure she doesn't start picking at new areas like her ankles etc.


Sometimes it can just be a bad habit that is very hard to break even after the cause of the initial habit is alleviated. Good luck!

The vet could put it on but I don't think it'd be worth it, she's an hour away and she hates the travel cage. She's adjusted really well, and isn't scared when she's hanging out near her cage. I think she could handle it but I've never had a mutilating bird so I could be wrong. She's eating and drinking, she's been plucking but so far is leaving her scabs alone. The cone will be here in 3 days and I took those days off from work to make sure she doesn't hurt herself again

 

[noodles123]

Well if you have the time off work, then I would just put it on (assuming she doesn't freak out).
If she does, I would ask the vet to do it.
I think getting her used to it might take more time than you have to spare, given the urgency of the situation, but that is just my opinion obviously

 

[itzjbean]

Have you heard of the soft lily pad collars for cockatiels? They're like cones but don't seem as plasitcy and awkward... they help with plucking! May be a good alternative.

If you can get someone to help you hold her while you put it on her, would be easier than driving to have a vet do it for you. If you try to let her get used to it, it probably won't ever happen so you may just have to put it on the sonner the better.

 

[katiea]

Have you heard of the soft lily pad collars for cockatiels? They're like cones but don't seem as plasitcy and awkward... they help with plucking! May be a good alternative.

If you can get someone to help you hold her while you put it on her, would be easier than driving to have a vet do it for you. If you try to let her get used to it, it probably won't ever happen so you may just have to put it on the sonner the better.

https://www.birdsupplies.com/collec...ird-collar-slip-on-style?variant=852556972051 That is the cone I ordered, what's the difference with the collar? I've been calling it a cone because that's what the vet called it but online it says collar. Anytime I've seen a bird with a cone/collar its been fleece so I assumed the 2 terms were interchangeable

 

[EllenD]

I think that the two words are interchangeable, or at least they are normally used that way...If you're being technical, I think a "cone" is one of the hard-plastic ones that fastens around their neck but is actually cone-shaped, so that it curves up around their face so that they can't even see their body at all (think what a dog gets to wear after a surgery, like a male dog after being neutered, so they don't chew their stitches out)...And a "collar" is considered one that is not made of a hard material like plastic and that doesn't curve up around their face, like what you bought. Either way, I've heard most people use the two terms interchangeably.

i'd definitely put the collar on her immediately, due to the severity of what she just did to herself. It seems that her self-mutilation is progressing, and the last thing you want to have happen is for her to injure herself very badly to the point that she has to go back to the CAV, be sedated for tests and procedures like stitches or staples, and then have to stay with the Vet overnight or longer for antibiotic injections, etc. That situation would stress her out way more than you just putting that collar right on her. I'm glad you're off work that day so that you can be with her while she adjusts to having it on. Try giving her lots of attention, her favorite treats, play with her, try to keep her busy and comforted as much as possible, as she is probably going to be frightened/stressed by the collar at first, but unfortunately it's very necessary to protect her from herself right now. Hopefully the end-result of her wearing the collar will be that she stops self-mutilating all-together, it does happen sometimes, but at the very least you'll know that she's not going to hurt herself anymore, and it should allow her time for her feathers to start growing back in.

Where on her body does she usually pluck herself? I'm asking because if she usually plucks herself on her neck/chest/belly/back, then something that works wonders for a lot of birds is a sweater. I've seen several birds come into the Rescue I volunteer at wearing sweaters because they pluck, and though it doesn't stop them from plucking their legs, vent area, or wings (their wings obviously stick out of holes in the sweaters), the sweaters allow all of their feathers on their "bodies" to grow back-in. I've seen several Cockatoos who wear sweaters permanently, and you wouldn't have any idea that they pluck themselves except for the fact that they are always wearing a sweater. And they don't seem to mind wearing the sweater once they get used to it, as it's not as annoying or intrusive as a collar/cone is...

 

[katiea]

I think that the two words are interchangeable, or at least they are normally used that way...If you're being technical, I think a "cone" is one of the hard-plastic ones that fastens around their neck but is actually cone-shaped, so that it curves up around their face so that they can't even see their body at all (think what a dog gets to wear after a surgery, like a male dog after being neutered, so they don't chew their stitches out)...And a "collar" is considered one that is not made of a hard material like plastic and that doesn't curve up around their face, like what you bought. Either way, I've heard most people use the two terms interchangeably.

i'd definitely put the collar on her immediately, due to the severity of what she just did to herself. It seems that her self-mutilation is progressing, and the last thing you want to have happen is for her to injure herself very badly to the point that she has to go back to the CAV, be sedated for tests and procedures like stitches or staples, and then have to stay with the Vet overnight or longer for antibiotic injections, etc. That situation would stress her out way more than you just putting that collar right on her. I'm glad you're off work that day so that you can be with her while she adjusts to having it on. Try giving her lots of attention, her favorite treats, play with her, try to keep her busy and comforted as much as possible, as she is probably going to be frightened/stressed by the collar at first, but unfortunately it's very necessary to protect her from herself right now. Hopefully the end-result of her wearing the collar will be that she stops self-mutilating all-together, it does happen sometimes, but at the very least you'll know that she's not going to hurt herself anymore, and it should allow her time for her feathers to start growing back in.

Where on her body does she usually pluck herself? I'm asking because if she usually plucks herself on her neck/chest/belly/back, then something that works wonders for a lot of birds is a sweater. I've seen several birds come into the Rescue I volunteer at wearing sweaters because they pluck, and though it doesn't stop them from plucking their legs, vent area, or wings (their wings obviously stick out of holes in the sweaters), the sweaters allow all of their feathers on their "bodies" to grow back-in. I've seen several Cockatoos who wear sweaters permanently, and you wouldn't have any idea that they pluck themselves except for the fact that they are always wearing a sweater. And they don't seem to mind wearing the sweater once they get used to it, as it's not as annoying or intrusive as a collar/cone is...

I'm hoping the collar will help her stop. I don't know how long she's been mutilating but she's never done anything like this before, its always been a couple small scabs so I don't think its been going on for long, or it's been very slowly progressing. Hopefully it hasn't been long so she has a better chance at stopping permanently.

She plucks her wings and back. I was thinking about getting a sweater for one of my lovebirds, he plucks his chest during breeding season.

 

[MonicaMc]

Has the vet ran any tests to determine the cause of the mutilation?

 

[katiea]

Has the vet ran any tests to determine the cause of the mutilation?

She had a checkup when I got her and that was just a basic physical, and this time it was just cleaning her wounds so no

 

[EllenD]

Has the vet ran any tests to determine the cause of the mutilation?

She had a checkup when I got her and that was just a basic physical, and this time it was just cleaning her wounds so no

Monica makes an extremely good point...If your vet is not a Certified Avian Vet (maybe an "exotics" vet), or if they are a CAV but they have no self-mutilation/feather-destructive behavior experience, then you really do need to find a CAV who is very experienced in diagnosing and treating them, as there is often times a physical problem that is causing the mutilation and/or plucking...And sometimes the physical problem is caused by an environmental issue, a food issue, etc., or in other words an "allergy"...Most CAV's with experience in this field who are seeing a bird who is self-mutilating for the first time will make taking blood their number one priority, as sometimes a routine blood-panel will tell them exactly what is going on; and if the routine blood-panel doesn't give them a diagnosis, then that's when the difference between an experienced CAV and other vets really makes a huge difference, as they know exactly what specific, individual blood tests also need to be run in addition to the routine CBC, metabolic panels, etc. They typically run tests for allergies (antibody tests), and then some very specific metabolic blood tests to test for any type of food-allergies. They also usually pluck some feathers and do skin-scrapings to do microscopy and even cytology on. And if all of this comes back as being normal, that's when they start looking into both possible environmental issues as well as the psychological issues, such as anxiety...

If you have a lovebird that also plucks then you really would benefit from finding a CAV who specializes in self-mutilation. And if your lovebird plucks his chest/belly then yes, definitely try a sweater for him, as every single bird I've seen wearing a sweater has had great success with them. They definitely accept them much more easily than the cones/collars, and they protect the damaged areas so well that their feathers in those areas are able to grow-back very quickly, and in a lot of cases once the feathers are completely grown back-in and we end-up re=homing the bird to a great home where they are getting a lot of attention, love, a good diet, mental stimulation, etc., then they stop plucking completely....

 

[noodles123]

any blood-work?

 

[katiea]

Has the vet ran any tests to determine the cause of the mutilation?

She had a checkup when I got her and that was just a basic physical, and this time it was just cleaning her wounds so no

Monica makes an extremely good point...If your vet is not a Certified Avian Vet (maybe an "exotics" vet), or if they are a CAV but they have no self-mutilation/feather-destructive behavior experience, then you really do need to find a CAV who is very experienced in diagnosing and treating them, as there is often times a physical problem that is causing the mutilation and/or plucking...And sometimes the physical problem is caused by an environmental issue, a food issue, etc., or in other words an "allergy"...Most CAV's with experience in this field who are seeing a bird who is self-mutilating for the first time will make taking blood their number one priority, as sometimes a routine blood-panel will tell them exactly what is going on; and if the routine blood-panel doesn't give them a diagnosis, then that's when the difference between an experienced CAV and other vets really makes a huge difference, as they know exactly what specific, individual blood tests also need to be run in addition to the routine CBC, metabolic panels, etc. They typically run tests for allergies (antibody tests), and then some very specific metabolic blood tests to test for any type of food-allergies. They also usually pluck some feathers and do skin-scrapings to do microscopy and even cytology on. And if all of this comes back as being normal, that's when they start looking into both possible environmental issues as well as the psychological issues, such as anxiety...

If you have a lovebird that also plucks then you really would benefit from finding a CAV who specializes in self-mutilation. And if your lovebird plucks his chest/belly then yes, definitely try a sweater for him, as every single bird I've seen wearing a sweater has had great success with them. They definitely accept them much more easily than the cones/collars, and they protect the damaged areas so well that their feathers in those areas are able to grow-back very quickly, and in a lot of cases once the feathers are completely grown back-in and we end-up re=homing the bird to a great home where they are getting a lot of attention, love, a good diet, mental stimulation, etc., then they stop plucking completely....

My vet isn't a CAV, but it's exclusively avian & exotics, mostly avian, so I thought it was ok. The closest CAV I can find is over 3 hours away so I didn't think it was worth the stress of a 6+ hour trip. If it's worth it I'm willing to make the trip. I have heard a CAV from out of state occasionally travels to near where I live for appointments, but I don't remember how often or even his name.

How stressful is the sweater? He doesn't pluck badly and it's only during breeding time. He is pretty okay with being handled, he's my only bird that doesn't freak out when being toweled. He's a big shredder so I'd be worried he might tear up the sweater

 

[MonicaMc]

My AV isn't CAV either, in fact, there isn't one single CAV in my entire freakin state! Like you, I would also have to travel some hours to get to one - including out of state. That said, we still do tests!

I also have a cockatiel right now that's picking at herself, but it's only a small area on her back. Well, she's not mine, she's a foster. First visit so far, and she's sick. You'd never guess it looking at her! So she's getting treated for infections. All we've done so far is a gram stain. She's getting antibiotic, antifungal and pain meds. Still picking. I'd also like to get an X-Ray and perhaps a skin scraping to see what's going on. I'm sure that this will also include blood work sooner or later!

I'm not willing to adopt her out until we've at least tried to figure out why she's picking in the first place.


I'm using CareCredit for any charges over $200 which gives me time to pay it off slowly.

 

[katiea]

My AV isn't CAV either, in fact, there isn't one single CAV in my entire freakin state! Like you, I would also have to travel some hours to get to one - including out of state. That said, we still do tests!

I also have a cockatiel right now that's picking at herself, but it's only a small area on her back. Well, she's not mine, she's a foster. First visit so far, and she's sick. You'd never guess it looking at her! So she's getting treated for infections. All we've done so far is a gram stain. She's getting antibiotic, antifungal and pain meds. Still picking. I'd also like to get an X-Ray and perhaps a skin scraping to see what's going on. I'm sure that this will also include blood work sooner or later!

I'm not willing to adopt her out until we've at least tried to figure out why she's picking in the first place.


I'm using CareCredit for any charges over $200 which gives me time to pay it off slowly.

I could make the trip to the CAV, I have family near there so I could possibly stay for a weekend. I knew about the tests needed and my vet has mentioned them- she's just never done it because my birds with plucking problems all have a somewhat obvious reason. I got the travelling vet's email from a friend who uses him and I emailed him to see when he's coming to TN. I found another avian vet very close to me but I don't know if he's a CAV

 

[MonicaMc]

Would your vet be willing to do the blood work? And be able to understand the results or consult with a specialist? I don't see any point in traveling *if you don't need to*. However, if the CAV would be a better option, then it may be a good idea to see them anyway.

I've put up two links in this thread which can potentially help to locate other avian vets, some certified, some not.

http://www.parrotforums.com/general-parrot-information/76589-avian-vet-vs-certified-avian-vet.html

 

[katiea]

Would your vet be willing to do the blood work? And be able to understand the results or consult with a specialist? I don't see any point in traveling *if you don't need to*. However, if the CAV would be a better option, then it may be a good idea to see them anyway.

I've put up two links in this thread which can potentially help to locate other avian vets, some certified, some not.

http://www.parrotforums.com/general-parrot-information/76589-avian-vet-vs-certified-avian-vet.html

I'm not sure. I can call and ask when the clinic opens.

There's an avian vet closer to me, 20 minutes away, but I've been to his clinic and there are always a million dogs, and they have cats that live there and roam freely. He's in a clinic with 3 or 4 other vets who treat only dogs and cats.

 

[katiea]

The collar came in the mail today. She was annoyed the first time I put it on, and much more annoyed when I had to take it off the adjust the head hole. She is okay though, fumbled around with it a little but it's been a few hours and she doesn't care much about it anymore. I let her have her favorite treat and play with the other tiel after a couple hours and now she's playing with her toys like nothing happened

 

[smbrds]

If there is a case with tiels plucking/mutilating - which they can do as well - then this is it! Poor girl must had been through a lot to start this. You are taking wonderful care of her! From the above posts, it seems like it could also be something underlying. Would be interesting to determine the cause via a vet. But it's good that she is taking to the collar and in familiar surroundings.

This does or doesn't have much to in relation to her condition, but do you by any chance know her age?

 

[katiea]

If there is a case with tiels plucking/mutilating - which they can do as well - then this is it! Poor girl must had been through a lot to start this. You are taking wonderful care of her! From the above posts, it seems like it could also be something underlying. Would be interesting to determine the cause via a vet. But it's good that she is taking to the collar and in familiar surroundings.

This does or doesn't have much to in relation to her condition, but do you by any chance know her age?

Thank you!
I've been emailing a couple vets asking to run bloodwork & other tests on her to make sure its behavioral but there aren't many near me so until then I'm just assuming its behavioral. She has a history of abuse so it's most likely because of that.


I don't know her age, but I'd guess she's 5-10 years old, possibly a little older.