Cruel to spray with water for discipline?

[Maxo]

I emailed someone about an amazon they're getting rid of near me. I am not going to buy him but I like to look at what's available and email questions about them.

Read below what the parrot seller said about loudness. Is this unhealthy? I would not train a bird to be quiet like this, but maybe I'm wrong. You guys who would know -cruel to spray?

"We have been training her for some time now with a water bottle. when she decides to get too loud we spray a little water and she stops...now we just show her the bottle and she stops lol.

 

[Kiwibird]

Uggghhhh this makes my blood boil! I would not say it is "cruel", but it is definitely NOT a good way to train a bird. I am not 100% positive reinforcement, but I also think methods of discipline for a bird should serve a purpose (my preferred is covering so he calms down and step up drills to reinforce positive behavior and a good bond, and that is ONLY for VERY serious infractions like biting or excessive aggression where he NEEDS to calm down and be reminded of good bird behavior).

One other thing with spraying to discipline is what happens when the bird needs a bath? Poor baby is going to think they are being punished something fierce (or they don't get bathes, which leads to hygiene/plumage issues)! Especially an amazon, as they LOVE baths and it goes against their very nature to view water as a negative thing.

 

[Maxo]

Is it even possible for a water loving animal to view it as punishment? Wouldn't the bird think he was being rewarded for screaming? Unless it's higher pressure spray! I hope not. But they live in the rainforest, so maybe pressure isn't an issue? I wish I knew what it really looked like when they sprayed him. Sounds like someone who doesn't understand training though, I admit.

 

[Kiwibird]

Is it even possible for a water loving animal to view it as punishment? Wouldn't the bird think he was being rewarded for screaming? Unless it's higher pressure spray! I hope not. But they live in the rainforest, so maybe pressure isn't an issue? I wish I knew what it really looked like when they sprayed him. Sounds like someone who doesn't understand training though, I admit.

Think of it this way- a nice shower feels good, getting sprayed with a power hose, not so much. If you get sprayed with a power hose enough times (especially if your rarely or never given a nice shower), you may eventually learn to hate the shower too because you form a negative association with water in general. It is extremely common for people who adopt rescues who were punished in this way to find the bird is extremely fearful/hates being bathed. It is also very difficult to overcome a fear of water by a bird who was punished in this manner (many of whom were also not regularly/ever bathed to ever form a positive association with water). Plenty of bird owners don't realize their birds need regular baths, and many birds can go decades without bathing. It's unhealthy, but surprisingly common.

 

[Birdman666]

That's just wrong...

 

[Skittys_Daddy]

I used to do this when I first got Skittles. Even though he likes water, no one likes to get sprayed. But it really doesn't work. It did get to the point where he would see the water bottle and stop, out of fear of being sprayed. BUT, then he started being afraid every time I picked something up that he was not overly familiar with. I don't want him to behave out of 'fear', but rather behave in order to get a 'treat'.

I cannot tell you how effective 'positive reinforcement' is in training. The more praise they get for doing good, the less they will be bad. Another thing is, knowing WHY your parrot is acting up. MOST of the time, when Skittles was 'acting up', it was for a reason. He wanted attention, he wanted a bath, he wanted this or that. You have to learn to read your bird. They are going to make noise, it's how they communicate. But incessant non-stop screeching is not normal. So knowing the difference is key.

I find time-outs to be the most 'effective' training methods.

When Skittles acts up now, I give him '3 verbal warnings', changing my tone of voice with them. If that doesn't work, I put him in his cage for a 'time-out'. I don't cover him up, I just let him sit there. IF he doesn't stop, I then cover him up. When I go to let him back out, 9/10 he makes 'kissy noises' when I'm about to let him back out. To me, it's his way of saying 'sorry' for misbehaving.

Now, I rarely have to cover him up. It does happen - but he is usually responsive to my verbal commands. I also 'snap and point my fingers' and say "go" if he is somewhere he is not supposed to be. For example, he likes to sit atop my curtain rods which is a no-no. What I do when I catch him is say "NO, snap and point my fingers to either his cage or playstand and say 'over there' and 9/10 he obeys.

 

[Skittys_Daddy]

PS, if you ask me - those people shouldn't have birds to begin with. What they are likely doing is spraying the bird EVERY time it makes a noise. Not only is that ineffective, but it's going to create more problems than exist now.

 

[chris-md]

My Parker was punished with a spray bottle so he came to me terrified of water. The only way I can get him to accept water is to take him into the shower with me. He hated at first but quickly came around to tolerating it. Even now though he resists at first.

As an eclectus it makes it harder for him since It's important for them to get wet with some frequency. Bad juju...

 

[Taw5106]

I wouldn't spray my birds. If I did, Buddy would be soaked all day long, he is nonstop noise! Having birds to me means you accept their actions. Buddy loves to chatter, whistle, growl, freak out with anything new, that's just Buddy. It's frustrating to see people who have animals but don't try to understand them. It also took me four months to get Buddy to bathe and I did that by taking him in the shower with me, that was a major milestone. He hates misting, he runs like you are trying to set him on fire, he's my comical clown, lol.

 

[Skittys_Daddy]

My Skittles will sit on the faucet, ruffle his feathers and sneeze to let me know he wants a bath. If I don't respond in a 'timely' manner, he then will screech to get my attention and keep screeching.

He picks the most inopportune times to choose a bath. Often, when I am about to wash dishes.

He also will 'jump' into his bathing dish and 'flap around' splashing water everywhere, then he will jump out and do this "who me?" bobbing, jerk with his head and then jump in again. I think he aims to get me soaked. Little bugger.

 

[Skittys_Daddy]

I should also note, Skittles used to go on for hours and hours. I can't tell you how many times I wanted to strangle him. Then I did research and tried a whole knew method - trying to communicate and understand his behavior and learn to read him and what he was trying to say. Now, he can go hours without making a single screech. He does however make 'kissy noises' a lot and his cute little froggy noises. In fact, one of my neighbors calls him 'Froggy'. We'll be on the phone and she'll say to me, "I hear Froggy". He makes that noise repeatedly whenever I talk as well. It's the cutest thing.

 

[jasper19]

Not a good way for training, is negative reinforcement. Positive reinforcement is much better.

 

[JerseyWendy]

Tell you what, my fids see the spray bottle and they open their wings and go "WEEEEEEE....."

 

[Ann333]

He also will 'jump' into his bathing dish and 'flap around' splashing water everywhere, then he will jump out and do this "who me?" bobbing, jerk with his head and then jump in again. I think he aims to get me soaked. Little bugger.

Hehe pumpkin does this as well. He always does it when you're right next to the cage so you get a bath too lol. Little monster...I love this bird and his crazy antics!

But yes Pumpkin hates the spray bottle I would never use it on him as punishment.

 

[Terry57]

When we got our Alex, Xander, he had been punished by spraying water on him.It took me months to get him to where he could take a mist bath without huddling on the floor of the cage. He now loves baths, and gets so excited, running around, opening his wings.
It breaks my heart that something that should always have been enjoyable was instead turned into something to be feared.

 

[SoCalWendy]

Kiwi hates the water bottle so much I had to remove it from the room. If she even see's that I have it, if she is out she will come after me. Even when I am cutting hair, I don't let her see it. And I don't spritz her anymore. But I never used the water bottle for discipline, ever. I used it only one hot days, and have no rhyme or reason why she hates it so much. But oh well.

 

[LeaKP]

My rescued grey was noisy for a bit but I didn't discipline him as such. When he would get carried away with just noise, I'd go over and talk to him and tell him to quiet down, he has responded brilliantly and is much quieter and rarely screeches for nothing. He is vocal but he talks, whistles, murmurs and converses with whoever is near. He wouldn't like to be sprayed as bath time has just now become something he tolerates and is starting to enjoy.

 

[Mariar]

Before I TOOK doolie ...he was in a cage in the yard,,exposed to all elements..if your from Florida you know how hot it can get and rainy. Every time it rained or I tried to mist him he'd scream his head off " water! Water! He never out grew his fear of water...mean people suck! Sissy on the other hand loves her showers.

 

[Anansi]

Tell you what, my fids see the spray bottle and they open their wings and go "WEEEEEEE....."

Which is as it should be.

Using a water bottle as a punishment is just unnecessarily harsh to the bird, in my opinion. It's a shortcut.

...It breaks my heart that something that should always have been enjoyable was instead turned into something to be feared.

There it is, in a nutshell. Discipline can be achieved with consistently applied timeouts as well. So why shoot the bird with a stream of water?

It's just easier, I reckon, to blast him from across the room rather than get up and put him on timeout.

Easier, however, doesn't always equate with better.

 

[Christinenc2000]

I have had BB it will be a year in Oct and he is still scared of the water bottle. Even the Mister I purchased gives him a little fear.

I have had to back space the rest of my feelings out of this LOL Yeah its not good