Hi, I'm new and need some advice desperately (today if possible)

Cockatiellover66

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Oct 13, 2021
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2 Cockatiels
Hello,

So I have 2 cockatiels (Alvin and Alwyn) that were believed to be around 2 when I rescued them about 17-18 years ago. So are likely aroudn 20-21. I had no health problems with either of them until about 3 years ago. Then Alvin developed a rhinolith, they got it removed and thigns were fine, then he got another little one about 9 months later. He was fien for abotu a year and a half, then 9 months ago he got a bacterial infection that was very nasty, he had anti biotics and a flush and it cleared up. He then developed another one 7 months later and was given a different anti biotic, karidox. I've ha dhim on BSP drops since, as he as always the runt of th elitter and despite a good diet, suspect deficiency in VIT A.

Now 2 months later it seems like he may have another one but I am a bit unsure. The nare hoel keeps on changing size a lot and seems very dry, the shap is in constant flux he does however have a hole as you can see (smaller today though), and I have seen little downing feathers in the nare and them clearly moving with his breathing indicating the whole is not blocked. My problem is yesterday the nose became very enlarged and red, so I called the vets and got an appoitnment for the 26th (earliest they had) and they adviced to put him on anti biotics from yesterday. I already have Karidox but my problem is all the vet ever suggests is bring him in (I don't drive and it is very expensive to take him, but the vet is the only avian specialist near me), or give him anti biotics. I don't want to have to put him on those unless it is 100% necessary.

I got up this morning expecting to put him on anti biotics but I am looking at the nose and while the hole shape is a bit worrysome, the swelling seems to have gone down and the colour is fine. I know it will go red when he grooms it always does. Would putting him on karidox be a good idea? I have noticed he is sneezing a little bit more than usual, but there's 0 thick clear or yellow discharge this time round. I noticed his nose being odd about a month ago but then it sorted itself out, is it possible this is the start of an infection which is why it is not always red yet? I assumed based on what I read and was told if it was infected it would stay constantly red. I just don't want to put him on anti biotics unless 100% necessary.
 

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Cockatiellover66

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I have taken some more pictures as he has become more active. I am aware that because his nose has been dug out so many times, it's shape is going to be larger than the other nose, there is clearly something going on, but this is not screaming infection to me, as you can see it is enlarged but the colour seems normal? I'm wondering if it's an envionmental irritant. I am cocnerned about anti biotics only 3 months since his last dose and also resistance being built to them. So any input on things this could be would be really helpful. I have the anti biotics here and can put him on them anytime so if people think that is genuinely the best thing to do that is fine. I am just concious that anti biotics always seems to be the answer with my vet. I know his pathway is currently clear and not blocked.
 

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Skarila

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Apr 19, 2021
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Rinoliths are nasty things, often happens with "dusty" birds, like cockatiels or African Greys.
From my short experience with 'tiels, I'd have the nosdrils cleaned far more often, every few weeks if needed. I remember we cleaned Archie's nosdrils every month or so, and it was always full of gunk. Not blocking his airway, but that is how rinoliths are made and it is how they grow. That soft gunk turns into the "stones".
I'd go for a second opinion in this case, redness can show either irritation or infection, and I understand the worries of having a bird on so many antibiotics over and over. See if you can supplement him with probiotics for birds. And see if the vet is willing to clean his nosdrils often since he does seem prone to the monoliths. (My partner would clean Archie's nosdrils as he has an incredible steady hand)

I highly suggest investing into an airpurifier if you already don't have one.
 
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Cockatiellover66

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Rinoliths are nasty things, often happens with "dusty" birds, like cockatiels or African Greys.
From my short experience with 'tiels, I'd have the nosdrils cleaned far more often, every few weeks if needed. I remember we cleaned Archie's nosdrils every month or so, and it was always full of gunk. Not blocking his airway, but that is how rinoliths are made and it is how they grow. That soft gunk turns into the "stones".
I'd go for a second opinion in this case, redness can show either irritation or infection, and I understand the worries of having a bird on so many antibiotics over and over. See if you can supplement him with probiotics for birds. And see if the vet is willing to clean his nosdrils often since he does seem prone to the monoliths. (My partner would clean Archie's nosdrils as he has an incredible steady hand)

I highly suggest investing into an airpurifier if you already don't have one.
Hi thanks for the input. I do have an air purifier I put down there during the night, these two are not tame so I can not clean their nose out myself, also goign to the vet frequently would cost me around Ā£90 each visit due to travel costs, so I would like to avoid that if possible. I do have a nebuliser with an F10 anti sceptic solution, I put him in 2-3 times a week, I was advised to do that to help try to reduce rhinoliths.

If you had to make a guess right now on the pictures, would you lean more toward irritated than infection? From my experience so far, I'd have to say it's not an infection as it stands, it is slightly pink and obviously enlarged but it's not red and there is 0 discharge. Unlike the last two times.

His nose was actually absurdly cleanand immacualte looking 2 weeks ago.
 
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Cockatiellover66

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Oct 13, 2021
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Rinoliths are nasty things, often happens with "dusty" birds, like cockatiels or African Greys.
From my short experience with 'tiels, I'd have the nosdrils cleaned far more often, every few weeks if needed. I remember we cleaned Archie's nosdrils every month or so, and it was always full of gunk. Not blocking his airway, but that is how rinoliths are made and it is how they grow. That soft gunk turns into the "stones".
I'd go for a second opinion in this case, redness can show either irritation or infection, and I understand the worries of having a bird on so many antibiotics over and over. See if you can supplement him with probiotics for birds. And see if the vet is willing to clean his nosdrils often since he does seem prone to the monoliths. (My partner would clean Archie's nosdrils as he has an incredible steady hand)

I highly suggest investing into an airpurifier if you already don't have one.
Also when you say probiotic what do you mean exactly? They have a varied diet including spinach,toast,pasta,sweetcorn,carrots etc etc. I am open to adding more to their diet though, so if you could be specific on the probiotic it would be much appreciated.
 

Skarila

Supporting Member
Apr 19, 2021
417
Media
57
Albums
5
763
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āœ»Csillam the rescued budgie
āœ»Pascal the Emma's (Venezuelan) Conure

Previous owned:
āœ»Archibald the cockatiel (fostered 6 months)
āœ»RIP - 28 YO Zeleni the mischievous IRN
āœ»RIP -Sunny the budgie
Hi thanks for the input. I do have an air purifier I put down there during the night, these two are not tame so I can not clean their nose out myself, also goign to the vet frequently would cost me around Ā£90 each visit due to travel costs, so I would like to avoid that if possible. I do have a nebuliser with an F10 anti sceptic solution, I put him in 2-3 times a week, I was advised to do that to help try to reduce rhinoliths.

If you had to make a guess right now on the pictures, would you lean more toward irritated than infection? From my experience so far, I'd have to say it's not an infection as it stands, it is slightly pink and obviously enlarged but it's not red and there is 0 discharge. Unlike the last two times.
Also when you say probiotic what do you mean exactly? They have a varied diet including spinach,toast,pasta,sweetcorn,carrots etc etc. I am open to adding more to their diet though, so if you could be specific on the probiotic.
I see you're doing a lot more than I expected for the two seniors, keep up the good work! I fully understand your issue, either the bird is not tame and will not be still, or it's funds down the drain...
Can you actually send the pictures to the vet?
Also, we talking about the 'Tiel's left nostril? If I had the same thing at home with a tiel, considering all the things we would've gone through with the rinoliths and all, I personally would say irritation, it doesn't look so angry to me, and you're absolutely right that the nostrils will dilate and appear larger if there was already a monolith in there and being picked so many times. I personally wouldn't immediately put on the antibiotics, please if Anyhow possible, try to get a 2nd opinion over the net with another avian vet. If it's just irritation/inflamation, antiinflamatory meds might be worth a try (as I mentioned, this must be decided by an avian vet after they see clear picture OR see the bird personally, and knowing the medical history of the bird!)

As for probiotics, since such a long time on antibiotics it can mess up the guts flora and it's never a bad idea to supplement with probiotics to replenish the good gut bacteria. My little conure's bacterial smearing/test/whatever the right word in english is, was lacking in the good bacteria. I gave him every morning just the tip of a butterknife of Ac-i-Prim on a tiny piece of apple (to make sure he eats it) for 4-5 weeks, and his droppings improved massively (they actually looked like a bird poop rather than a smeared watery mess). This was suggested by my vet, as always, before jumping into anything, always discuss with your vet, you can always go for a smear/microbio tests and see if it's needed.

One of our new dear members wrote quite a litany (useful one) on probiotics:

 
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Cockatiellover66

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I see you're doing a lot more than I expected for the two seniors, keep up the good work! I fully understand your issue, either the bird is not tame and will not be still, or it's funds down the drain...
Can you actually send the pictures to the vet?
Also, we talking about the 'Tiel's left nostril? If I had the same thing at home with a tiel, considering all the things we would've gone through with the rinoliths and all, I personally would say irritation, it doesn't look so angry to me, and you're absolutely right that the nostrils will dilate and appear larger if there was already a monolith in there and being picked so many times. I personally wouldn't immediately put on the antibiotics, please if Anyhow possible, try to get a 2nd opinion over the net with another avian vet. If it's just irritation/inflamation, antiinflamatory meds might be worth a try (as I mentioned, this must be decided by an avian vet after they see clear picture OR see the bird personally, and knowing the medical history of the bird!)

As for probiotics, since such a long time on antibiotics it can mess up the guts flora and it's never a bad idea to supplement with probiotics to replenish the good gut bacteria. My little conure's bacterial smearing/test/whatever the right word in english is, was lacking in the good bacteria. I gave him every morning just the tip of a butterknife of Ac-i-Prim on a tiny piece of apple (to make sure he eats it) for 4-5 weeks, and his droppings improved massively (they actually looked like a bird poop rather than a smeared watery mess). This was suggested by my vet, as always, before jumping into anything, always discuss with your vet, you can always go for a smear/microbio tests and see if it's needed.

One of our new dear members wrote quite a litany (useful one) on probiotics:

Hi,

Thank you so much for the kind comments. Yes I love them so much and definitely keep a close eye on them, they have a lot of nutriballs too as that's pellet added into their diet, as they don't like pellets on their own.

As for sending pictures to the vets, I done that in the past but they never ever respond to them and I end up chasing. They didn't even ask for a picture this time round.

It was so red in yesterdays picture I was sure it was an infection, but today it's only very slightly pink so as you seem to agree with me, it currently doesn't look angry so infection is less likely I think. Also the pathway seems clear when I look in and the hole hasn't closed off so I don't think any rhinolith has formed yet.

I can't find that AC-I-Prim in the uk so far, but it looks like it's pretty much the same as BSP drops?


It's a shame the vets did not think of anti inflammatory meds, I know if I call them now they will be annoyed I haven't followed their "anti biotic" advice.
 

Laurasea

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Aug 2, 2018
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Hi,
To get these burds to this age you have obviously done a great job caring for them.

I think you are feeding veggies? Because this is usually linked with low vitamin A, especially in burds on all seed diets. Foods to offer are any of tge peppers, red chili pepper, bell pepper, even dried pepper has vitamin A. Cooked sweet potatoes, and cooking carrots makes vitamin A more available. Leafy greens like romaine and Swiss shard also great source of vitamin A.

Sunlight is also great help fir birds. Secure bottom tray, all doors and opening. And take cage outside in dabble shad , not full sun, and stay right with them! A half hour a day is ideal, but even twice a week is helpful. N

For probotic support. My experience is that Greek yogurt with acidophilus as one of the live coulters is beneficial. I feed a half teaspoon a day when on antibiotics and try for twice a week otherwise. I hold a day on my finger and mine lick it off. If they are new to yogurt you can try dab on beak once , then let them decide, even my budgie like it. Tho fir them I put on a dish. Some people argue that yogurt has no benefit, but it is safe , and is on safe parrot foods lists. I tell you if you try it and observe poop, you can see an improvement in poop consistency. And my experience it has taken a bird with diarrhea , to normal poop.

And I offer boiled egg twice a week , for b, and e vitamin
 
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Cockatiellover66

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Oct 13, 2021
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Hi,
To get these burds to this age you have obviously done a great job caring for them.

I think you are feeding veggies? Because this is usually linked with low vitamin A, especially in burds on all seed diets. Foods to offer are any of tge peppers, red chili pepper, bell pepper, even dried pepper has vitamin A. Cooked sweet potatoes, and cooking carrots makes vitamin A more available. Leafy greens like romaine and Swiss shard also great source of vitamin A.

Sunlight is also great help fir birds. Secure bottom tray, all doors and opening. And take cage outside in dabble shad , not full sun, and stay right with them! A half hour a day is ideal, but even twice a week is helpful. N

For probotic support. My experience is that Greek yogurt with acidophilus as one of the live coulters is beneficial. I feed a half teaspoon a day when on antibiotics and try for twice a week otherwise. I hold a day on my finger and mine lick it off. If they are new to yogurt you can try dab on beak once , then let them decide, even my budgie like it. Tho fir them I put on a dish. Some people argue that yogurt has no benefit, but it is safe , and is on safe parrot foods lists. I tell you if you try it and observe poop, you can see an improvement in poop consistency. And my experience it has taken a bird with diarrhea , to normal poop.

And I offer boiled egg twice a week , for b, and e vitamin
Hi,

Thank you very much, what greek yoghurt do they use? Yes they do have veggies, but Alvin has always been the runt of the litter, he has got much better recently since being on nutriballs. Infect his first infeciton his weight was down to 82 grams, while during his second infection his weight was 102 grams. So he does seem to have some form of absorbtion issues. I've tried a dried boil egg and they didn't take to it. They can be very fussy xD. Don't like peppers or sweet potato, they do love spinach and kale though. I might try cooking the carrot next time rather than raw.

I just checked on alvin again, his nose is quite pink but you can see there's a lot of crumbly skin. His nose went quite red after the nebuliser and shower yesterday, but time before that I could see the clear hard yellow skin on the inner part of his cere, which he does manage to break down.

Really feeling like it isn't an infection but I am hyper paranoid with my little guys, I check on him like 10-12 times a day. It has also made a sudden shift to cold temperatures here in the UK, so I am pondering if that may be part of this.
 

Skarila

Supporting Member
Apr 19, 2021
417
Media
57
Albums
5
763
Hungary
Parrots
āœ»Csillam the rescued budgie
āœ»Pascal the Emma's (Venezuelan) Conure

Previous owned:
āœ»Archibald the cockatiel (fostered 6 months)
āœ»RIP - 28 YO Zeleni the mischievous IRN
āœ»RIP -Sunny the budgie
Hi,
To get these burds to this age you have obviously done a great job caring for them.

I think you are feeding veggies? Because this is usually linked with low vitamin A, especially in burds on all seed diets. Foods to offer are any of tge peppers, red chili pepper, bell pepper, even dried pepper has vitamin A. Cooked sweet potatoes, and cooking carrots makes vitamin A more available. Leafy greens like romaine and Swiss shard also great source of vitamin A.

Sunlight is also great help fir birds. Secure bottom tray, all doors and opening. And take cage outside in dabble shad , not full sun, and stay right with them! A half hour a day is ideal, but even twice a week is helpful. N

For probotic support. My experience is that Greek yogurt with acidophilus as one of the live coulters is beneficial. I feed a half teaspoon a day when on antibiotics and try for twice a week otherwise. I hold a day on my finger and mine lick it off. If they are new to yogurt you can try dab on beak once , then let them decide, even my budgie like it. Tho fir them I put on a dish. Some people argue that yogurt has no benefit, but it is safe , and is on safe parrot foods lists. I tell you if you try it and observe poop, you can see an improvement in poop consistency. And my experience it has taken a bird with diarrhea , to normal poop.

And I offer boiled egg twice a week , for b, and e vitamin

Bingo for the acidophilus - in Croatia we have (or had?) Yoghurts which name was acidofil - it was rich with this bacteria, but it didn't have a pleasant taste to me, and bit more sour than Kefir.

Also this is one of the main bacterias in the probiotics I've used for Pascal. Thank you for sharing this info! Might go and buy some joghurts for myself...
 

Laurasea

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2018
9,648
1,012
USA
Parrots
Neptune blue quaker (MIA), Ta-dah GCC female, Penny quaker female, Pikachu quaker female!!, Phoebe quaker female, 3 parakeets males, Burt The Burd GCC female RIP
on yogurt, just make sure no artificial sweetneers. A nice brand and plain is what I use. Though sometimes I get some with berries. But usually plain as they don't need added sugar from berries.

Cocktail don't bathe ( on average, very much) you definitely want to keep them extra warm after a bath . Over nebulizer can irritate the skin around nares...I've seen people over do that..but I differ to your veterinarian recommendations.
 
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Cockatiellover66

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Oct 13, 2021
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on yogurt, just make sure no artificial sweetneers. A nice brand and plain is what I use. Though sometimes I get some with berries. But usually plain as they don't need added sugar from berries.

Cocktail don't bathe ( on average, very much) you definitely want to keep them extra warm after a bath . Over nebulizer can irritate the skin around nares...I've seen people over do that..but I differ to your veterinarian recommendations.
Interesting. He says 1-3 times a week then was twicce a day when he had the fungal infection. Are you thinking more once every week or 2 then?
Also I thought cockatiels can't have dairy, isn't greek yoghurt dairy?

I've just checked on him todday and his nose is a bit better, still abit enlarged (which is normal to an extent) but quite a neutral pink and the size is a bit better so yea definitely does not scream infection in my eyes.
 
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