I messed up and worry I've broken any chance of a bond. Help a new guy out?

[Longshot]

Hello everyone

I have been a pet owner all my life, mostly of dogs and cats. I have also maintained a 55 gallon planted tank for years, so I am no stranger to regular care and maintenance to pets and their infrastructure if you will.

I am recently divorced and have moved into a high rise apt. I regularly feed sparrows and finches on my balcony and have enjoyed it a lot. I have been yearning for another pet since my divorce. In a high rise, having a dog in Minnesota winters is....a lot of work. I like cats, but I hate cat boxes so no. It had never occurred to me to have a bird, and given I was a bit lonely and I WFH, I started researching. After 3-4 trips to Petco to look at "Bunchies(sp?)", we found a conure that was "hand-fed" and danced with my 5 year old son. My dad had a conure as a young man and loved it until it passed from pnuemonia, to which he cried like a baby. The guy working there highly recommended them as great birds also, and he seemed to know his stuff. Needless to say, the stars were aligning for this little "hand-fed" Petco guy and we got him.

Both my sons are in Spanish immersion so we named him Arcoiris (Ark-oh-EER-ees). "Arco" is a very sweet bird, and has bonded with my sons. He was bonding with me, until for some reason dog/cat training came more to mind than maybe, oh I don't know..DOING ACTUAL RESEARCH ON BIRDS. He did not like hands near him and stepping up was definitely NOT in the cards, nips were frequent if he was touched. Light bops on the beak for bites were reprecussions. Clearly not as hand raised as advertised, but that's on me.

Flash forward and It has spiraled a bit downward to where I have scared him by having to grab him, then he avoids me, to which I then have to grab him, etc. I confess I have been cornering him and restraining him both hands as quickly and gently as I can, enduring or preventing his bites, and soothing him as best I can while I gently place him back in his cage. He seems to calm down and forgive me afterwards, but dammit if it doesn't happen AGAIN. All in all he's been restrained as softly as I can 4-5 times in 4 days. Believe me when I say, and forgive my language, I FUBAR'd royally after reading a lot more. I am done chasing and grabbing him that is for sure. I realized after the 4th time he was biting me for blood that I am chasing and restraining a prey bird whose singular focus of millions of years of evolution is to escape being restrained. Boy oh boy do I feel smart. i also enjoy ice skating uphill!

I am encouraged by the fact he does NOT seem to have the same aversion to my sons hands as me, and he still kisses me face and takes treats, but I am genuinely concerned that I have not only broken, but prevented, any kind of bond with him. I do not want to send him back, I don't, but I also don't want to make such a large investment on an impulse purchase, regardless of how prepared I thought I was when I made it.

Seems I've checked all the boxed for irresponsible first time bird owner. Any thoughtful advice (please save the scorn, I understand I screwed up, I am trying to make it right for the sake of Arco) would be much appreciated!

EDIT: I should add I am giving him a lot of space and letting him just do his thing. Only interaction with hands is very slow and to give treats. Not going to let him wander the apartment like we have been, as it's very fun, but it leads to "the chasing". Not happening again.

 

[PrimorandMoxi]

You came to the right place.
No scorn on this site.

Parrots are so resilient, forgiving and smart.
-look at it as a long term journey.

Once he is hand tame it makes a world of difference but getting to that point must be different for every parrot.

take it slow, alls you gots is time.
make everything you do about him and his excitement in a big scary world...
he can always look to you for safety.

We have all had to pick up our birds in a not great way to keep them out of danger before they are tamed and don't worry about breaking a fragile bond.


So much valuable info on this site, that you wont find in books, and your best bet at creating a great life for Arco.


You are doing great. It is not an impulse buy. you got this.

 

[wrench13]

When I have to get my 'zon Salty back into his cage and he refuses, I have him step up onto a tightly rolled towel - much better then having a chunk taken out of my hand. Or grabbing him (much more blood). I may get some flack here, but i would have him lightly clipped, so he can glide to the floor and ot much else (wings grow back not to worry). Once that is done, start with Shunning as your bite prevention method.

Biting, whether intentional or not, just over preening your skin or actually taking chunks of meat out - all are PAINFULL! In the wild that sort of behavior is not tolerated by the flock. They ostracize flock members who continue to act like that. We call it 'Shunning'. This WILL work, but needs to be done correctly to get the message across and it needs to be done IMMEDIATELY so the parrot can associate the bite with the shunning action. And it needs to happen every time and with anyone involved with the parrot.

When the bite or over preening occurs:

• Say in a forceful but not shouting voice "No Bite" or other endearments.
• Immediately place the parrot on a nearby, handy chairback. NOT the cage (that would only teach the parrot to bite when he wants to go back to his cage).
• Turn your back to him and ignore him for 1 minute. No peeking, no talking about or too him, NADA. NO eye contact. No less or the message is lost, no more or the bird will not associate the action with the bite.
• After a minute you can try to re-establish contact.

Rinse, repeat as needed. Most parrots get the message after a few times, some may need more. Also very important - make sure the bite is not your fault. Annoying your parrot, asking him to step up when he is otherwise preoccupied with eating or playing, bothering him during known moody times like mating season, or ignoring the warnings and body language of your parrot - these are bites that you deserve! Learn, and be a better parront !!

 

[PrimorandMoxi]

Also what helped me tame Primor was this idea of "do not get bit"
because that becomes the reward.
I cant even remember the last time he bit me.

He gives very clear signals that he is not happy and about to strike.
He even shakes his head "no" with anything he does not want: to eat, to step up,
And you give him a moment and he will always reconsider.

my other half is not good at reading the signals and will get nailed time to time.

you read his eyes, his tail, his beak, and how firm his grip is on perch.

My macaw Macheath is impossible to read.

 

[Longshot]

Thank you both for you replies and positivity with the whole issue. Arco only seems to bite when he feels like he's out of options. I can tell from his body language. I think he'd much rather not be biting, but he also wants to feel safe so....giving it time. Thanks again you two.

 

[PrimorandMoxi]

I was thinking too, now that I have a super bond with Primor after ten years I do want him to get used to my grabbing him in any way and for him to know that he is safe.

I'll grab him with two hands sort of cupping him and I turn him over,
I want him to know I will touch him wherever and to not be afraid and its not a mating thing.

 

[Beepers]

Hello everyone

I have been a pet owner all my life, mostly of dogs and cats. I have also maintained a 55 gallon planted tank for years, so I am no stranger to regular care and maintenance to pets and their infrastructure if you will.

I am recently divorced and have moved into a high rise apt. I regularly feed sparrows and finches on my balcony and have enjoyed it a lot. I have been yearning for another pet since my divorce. In a high rise, having a dog in Minnesota winters is....a lot of work. I like cats, but I hate cat boxes so no. It had never occurred to me to have a bird, and given I was a bit lonely and I WFH, I started researching. After 3-4 trips to Petco to look at "Bunchies(sp?)", we found a conure that was "hand-fed" and danced with my 5 year old son. My dad had a conure as a young man and loved it until it passed from pnuemonia, to which he cried like a baby. The guy working there highly recommended them as great birds also, and he seemed to know his stuff. Needless to say, the stars were aligning for this little "hand-fed" Petco guy and we got him.

Both my sons are in Spanish immersion so we named him Arcoiris (Ark-oh-EER-ees). "Arco" is a very sweet bird, and has bonded with my sons. He was bonding with me, until for some reason dog/cat training came more to mind than maybe, oh I don't know..DOING ACTUAL RESEARCH ON BIRDS. He did not like hands near him and stepping up was definitely NOT in the cards, nips were frequent if he was touched. Light bops on the beak for bites were reprecussions. Clearly not as hand raised as advertised, but that's on me.

Flash forward and It has spiraled a bit downward to where I have scared him by having to grab him, then he avoids me, to which I then have to grab him, etc. I confess I have been cornering him and restraining him both hands as quickly and gently as I can, enduring or preventing his bites, and soothing him as best I can while I gently place him back in his cage. He seems to calm down and forgive me afterwards, but dammit if it doesn't happen AGAIN. All in all he's been restrained as softly as I can 4-5 times in 4 days. Believe me when I say, and forgive my language, I FUBAR'd royally after reading a lot more. I am done chasing and grabbing him that is for sure. I realized after the 4th time he was biting me for blood that I am chasing and restraining a prey bird whose singular focus of millions of years of evolution is to escape being restrained. Boy oh boy do I feel smart. i also enjoy ice skating uphill!

I am encouraged by the fact he does NOT seem to have the same aversion to my sons hands as me, and he still kisses me face and takes treats, but I am genuinely concerned that I have not only broken, but prevented, any kind of bond with him. I do not want to send him back, I don't, but I also don't want to make such a large investment on an impulse purchase, regardless of how prepared I thought I was when I made it.

Seems I've checked all the boxed for irresponsible first time bird owner. Any thoughtful advice (please save the scorn, I understand I screwed up, I am trying to make it right for the sake of Arco) would be much appreciated!

EDIT: I should add I am giving him a lot of space and letting him just do his thing. Only interaction with hands is very slow and to give treats. Not going to let him wander the apartment like we have been, as it's very fun, but it leads to "the chasing". Not happening again.

View attachment 60982

Welcome, and congratulations on your new family member! Conures are known for being nibbly and bitey, so that is somewhat normal. Fast movements, loud noises/yelling can trigger your bird, so do your best to remain calm when handling your bird. Keep some millet and an extra perch or chopstick handy so he can step up without biting you. He’ll associate you with snacks and you’ll be able to rebuild your relationship. I wouldn’t “bop” him on the beak because he’s going to view that as a fight. When my bird bites excessively, I’ll pick him up gently and put him somewhere else nearby, or redirect his attention to something else, like a toy. If he’s hurting you/being aggressive, I’d touch his beak very gently, with two fingers. Literally a one second gentle touch. No need to apply pressure. This will usually release the bite. Sometimes a bird gets tired and just needs to go back inside his cage, that’s okay too. One mistake I’ve seen frequently, are new owners who poke their bird or put their index finger in their bird’s face. When the bird uses its mouth to grab the finger, the owner pulls their finger and then pokes the bird again. Nothing good can come of this, your bird will see this as a fight. Until you’ve re-established trust, I wouldn’t touch your bird’s head unless he puts his head down, asking for a scratch. Not sure if this is an issue or not, but aside from picking up your bird to move him, never pet a bird’s body, that is a mating gesture. I’m sure the two of you will resolve your issues soon. Good luck!

 

[Botsari]

Likely at Petco "hand fed" means someone once fed it by hand, NOT that it was "hand reared" which means the process of a breeder taking the chicks within a few days of hatching, even before their eyes open, and taking over the %100 of the job of feeding and taking care of them. The chicks then strongly imprint on humans, and usually for the rest of their lives if they have good homes, and really enjoy and feel safe in human company. You will usually know because those birds always go for 5-10 times the $$, and it is almost never from a brand name pet store.

Anyway, regardless of where you are starting from with a particular bird, as some people have already chimed in, not only is almost eveything you have ever learned about inter-species communication from cats and dogs not only useless, it can at times be harmful. As mentioned above, parrots just do not understand ACTIVE negative reinforcement - in other words scolding or punishment. They are not domesticated animals in the sense that nearly every parrot is only a few generations from wild type genes. Dogs for example were already pack animals, like humans, before they were adopted. This is probaly why they were so easy to take in the first place. Then they got bred by humans for thousands, possibly tens of thousands of years. So we almost instinctually understand most low level comunication with them.

But with parrots everything they do, and can be taught to do, is in pursuit of something they WANT. They are very smart and usually can figure out the pattern to get something they want. But they will respond to negative reinforcement only with defensiveness and possibly aggression. So, what does this mean - you can only get a parrot to learn a behaviour is there is something they WANT. Fortunatly hand training a bird is probably the simplest thing to teach a bird - basically show it a treat in wants such as a sunflower seed kernal, and arrange things so that is has to get on your hand to get the seed, You say "UP" and hold out your hand with access to the seed via the hand. If the bird doesn't comply after a while you remove the seed and hand and try later. But they don't get the seed anyway. That is the deal. When they comply to "UP" they get the seeds immediatly. More sophisticated "comunication devices" like a clicker can make this process of training very specific, crazy complicated "tricks" very efficient because it allow the bird to know exactly when it did the correct thing, and that the reward is exactly for than. Etc.

But again the other side is NO beak bopping. No loud complaining, even if bitten. Just short periods of shunning where you remove what they want. It takes a lot more patience than with dogs. But when you initiate PHYSICAL contact, expecially with a bird you haven't already established a trusting relationship with, always let the bird go the last inch. Let the bird have the choice, and never under any circumstance grab them, unless it is an emergency. In a pinch you can wrap a towel around your arm making your arm bite proof, but you will have to train them with the towel too and likely at first they will be afrain of the towel as well. Better to proceed methodically and avoid the workaround altogeher. Just remember to let them CHOOSE the last inch. Just like in the movie "Hitch" with Will Smith - "The secret to a first kiss is to go %90 of the way, then hold." As long as it takes and as often as it takes for the BIRD in this case to choose to go the last %10. But bribery is not only allowed, but encouraged to establish this trust. Good luck.

 

[Sophieskitchen]

It will take time and patience but he will forgive if you can commit to a new way of being with him. I would start targeting training so you guys have a way to communicate with each other. Birdtricks.com has a lot of info as well that you could find helpful.

 

[GaleriaGila]

Wonderful thread, full of hope, openness, support, optimism.
I'm glad you're here.