Okay, let's talk ABV, PDD and Toe-tapping...

[Anansi]

I'm hoping so as well. But I must remain brutally honest with myself, Jules. Which means also keeping in mind that if the vet is correct, this treatment would make a difference, too. His point is that what this medication is doing is suppressing the effects of the flare-up until it passes.

Remember, his premise is that she is not at the stage Bixby had reached with PDD. He believes she can potentially live a long life... with periodic outbreaks usually triggered by stress. He said most of the birds he treats for this are most often triggered by hormonal stress. And if that's the case here, it would be about that time.

Still, all brutal honesty aside... I too hope this is an isolated incident related to an allergic reaction of sorts, my friend.

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[Christinenc2000]

Just seeing this thread Stephen . My prayers are with you !

 

[Kiwibird]

I am so sorry to hear miss Maya is having the problems Stephen Hoping very much that this is something else besides ABV!

 

[BIRDIGIRL]

So sorry to hear that Maya is unwell but also glad to read that she is eesponding well to medication..hopefully it will be just an allergy that can easily be sorted.praying for good results for you and the Beautiful Maya.

 

[GreatBlue320]

Hi Stephen - I'm just getting caught up on the forum today...

I'm so sorry to hear about Maya. I hope it all turns out to be nothing too serious. Your nerves must be frazzled. Glad to hear she has improved.

Keeping you and Maya in my thoughts.

 

[jess.reco]

Oh Anansi, I hope your little girl is ok

 

[Uglow]

Just catching up Stephen. man, if I was an eclectus, I would want to be under your care. Thank you so much for all the information. Glad Maya's feeling better. How's she doing now? I'm also hoping this was a just a little hick up and things get back to normal quickly for you guys.

 

[Anansi]

Thanks for all the support, everyone.

Unfortunately, my vet won't be in until next Monday with the results, though they are checking to see if another vet in that office couldn't call me and read the results in his stead. Otherwise, I'll just have to wait. Sigh...

Anyhow, Maya has shown some improvement. She's taken to climbing the sizes of her cage again, which indicates a decrease in her discomfort and an increase in the strength of her grip. Also, the incidents of toe-tapping have whittled down to virtually nothing. And she's gnawing on her feet far less than she had been, though it hasn't stopped completely.

On the negative side, her grip strength still isn't where it was, and she no longer perches on her highest perch. Which means her feet are still compromised to the point where that perch can cause her some discomfort.

And while she's been an absolute sweetheart about the anti-inflammatory meds and the nerve pain meds, she cannot STAND the antibiotic. To the point where she literally attacks the syringe... every time. I have to time the attacks and shoot a little bit in with each strike. Lol! Lucky thing she has such a temper. If she simply flat out refused, I'd have to force her to drink it. At least the antibiotic is only a 2 week course.

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[plumsmum2005]

Keep up the good work Anansi, you are doing brilliantly and obviously we are all rooting for Maya. The little improvements cheer the heart and gave a little smile regarding the lady having a temper.

 

[coopedup]

Let's hear it for feisty redheads! Go Maya!

 

[RavensGryf]

Stephen, I'm so anxious to hear about the results. Surely they can have another vet read the results? Oh man, next Monday?! I will check for an update! This pains me to think you have to wait a second longer!

I'm so glad Maya is showing such improvements with her feet! Hoping for her continued improvement as you finish out the meds for that. With the antibiotic, can you secure her head in a towel and put the syringe in your fist behind her head (sort of to the side/back), and drip the meds in the uppermost corner of her beak, where the beak attaches to the body? Her beak doesn't even have to be open and it should seep in, although it sounds like her beak will be open anyway lol! My vet taught me to do it this way, and is easier than having them see the syringe coming. Of course anything looks easier when he does it.

Crossing fingers that you don't have a long wait until Monday to get the results that are in now!!

 

[Anansi]

Keep up the good work Anansi, you are doing brilliantly and obviously we are all rooting for Maya. The little improvements cheer the heart and gave a little smile regarding the lady having a temper.

Thank you! Yeah, as annoying as her temper can be, I can't deny a grudging little smile when I see it in action. (Helps that I'm rarely ever on the receiving end. No one else here finds it so endearing.)

Let's hear it for feisty redheads! Go Maya!

Hahahahahaha! That fits her to a tee!

...I'm so glad Maya is showing such improvements with her feet! Hoping for her continued improvement as you finish out the meds for that. With the antibiotic, can you secure her head in a towel and put the syringe in your fist behind her head (sort of to the side/back), and drip the meds in the uppermost corner of her beak, where the beak attaches to the body? Her beak doesn't even have to be open and it should seep in, although it sounds like her beak will be open anyway lol! My vet taught me to do it this way, and is easier than having them see the syringe coming. Of course anything looks easier when he does it...

Thanks, Jules. But Maya's temper renders that unnecessary. She opens her mouth to attack the syringe, and down go the meds. Restraining her and forcing ingestion of the medication is a last resort. Let's just hope she stays ferocious rather than getting stubborn.

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[Anansi]

Okay, another vet called me with the results. As expected, All of Jolly's tests came up perfect. As for Maya, most of her stuff looked great, but she definitely had a high WBC count and a very slightly elevated muscle enzyme reading.

So the elevated white blood cell count indicates that she has been fighting an infection, but the vet had anticipated as much... hence the antibiotics. (With the added incentive of staving off any possible infection that might come about from her abraded feet and legs.)

Unfortunately, this fits in neatly with his hypothesis that a stressor (such as a bacterial infection) is triggering a flare up in the peripheral nervous system, thus inciting neurological issues such as toe-tapping and the nerve tingling that's causing her to bite at her feet.

As for the slight increase in muscle enzymes, he explained that was likely due to all the gnawing she was doing before to her feet. (He explained that plucking birds experience such elevated readings as well. It's a reaction to the damage.)

So long story short, there was no alternative cause revealed by the tests that might explain all of the symptoms she's shown. But I'll continue to keep you all updated.

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[Scott]

I am so glad another vet called to brief you on the results. Nothing worse than logistics getting in the way of needed information.

Wonderful to hear Jolly's chemistry is ideal; seems to mitigate the chance of contagion. Seems you and Maya are in somewhat uncharted territory, but hopefully you will arrive at a total cure, if not a fully treatable stasis.

 

[RavensGryf]

Stephen, I'm very glad to hear that another vet was able to make the call to you. That's got to be so hard to not have all the answers. I hope your vet can fill in the details a little more for you and answer all your questions at this point. Crossing my fingers for Maya's continued improvement. I am hoping that after the course of treatment she will remain symptom free.

 

[Brittany741]

I've been on Gabapentin in one form or another for ten years, on and off. It's a medication that must be given on time and daily. It isn't an as-needed medication like an opioid. Expect a solid two weeks before expecting any improvement. Gabapentin doesn't work for all nerve pain but I'm crossing my fingers it works well since her nerve pain is acute onset.

Celebrex works pretty much within the first few doses and I hope a continuing dose will keep the inflammation down.

As for the antibiotics, it's a good broad spectrum and should give good results if her infection responds. Two weeks should be sufficient, just make sure she gets the entire two week course in order to fully knock out the infection. It's a medication many humans take daily for very long periods of time, especially for acne. It does cause upset stomach in humans but I can't speak to how she will react. It may make her feel like crap so it's worth feeding with some rice or pasta.

 

[Aquila]

I've been on Gabapentin in one form or another for ten years, on and off. It's a medication that must be given on time and daily. It isn't an as-needed medication like an opioid. Expect a solid two weeks before expecting any improvement. Gabapentin doesn't work for all nerve pain but I'm crossing my fingers it works well since her nerve pain is acute onset.

Celebrex works pretty much within the first few doses and I hope a continuing dose will keep the inflammation down.

As for the antibiotics, it's a good broad spectrum and should give good results if her infection responds. Two weeks should be sufficient, just make sure she gets the entire two week course in order to fully knock out the infection. It's a medication many humans take daily for very long periods of time, especially for acne. It does cause upset stomach in humans but I can't speak to how she will react. It may make her feel like crap so it's worth feeding with some rice or pasta.

I don't know what effect it has on birds, but I know personally Gabapentin makes me super drowsy, though it's very dose dependant. It's something to look for in Maya, if she's still seeming a little tired, and might need some extra naps.

 

[Anansi]

...Wonderful to hear Jolly's chemistry is ideal; seems to mitigate the chance of contagion. Seems you and Maya are in somewhat uncharted territory, but hopefully you will arrive at a total cure, if not a fully treatable stasis.

...Crossing my fingers for Maya's continued improvement. I am hoping that after the course of treatment she will remain symptom free.

Thanks, Scott and Jules!

If the vet is correct about the cause, however, there is currently no available cure. (I stipulate "available" because one group claimed to have found a cure, but it's apparently years away from approval and such. I'm hoping it really is a workable cure. That would be HUGE for so many birds out there. But for now, at least, it's beyond my reach.)

And again, IF the vet is absolutely correct about what's going on (and let's face it, the fact that the toe-tap has been alleviated by the anti-inflammatory meds definitely lends substantive credence to his theory), Maya might be able to remain symptom free for so long as there is no secondary stressor to her system.

Oh, and yes, Scott, Jolly's good health does indeed help mitigate the chances of contagion. But even more importantly, transmission of ABV and all its PDD variants appears to be almost exclusively vertical... which is to say parent to child. No one will say horizontal transmission between healthy birds is not possible, but throw in words like "virtually" or phrases like "highly unlikely", and you see my point.

Otherwise, I'd be in a VERY difficult situation. And faced with a terrible choice.

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[Anansi]

I've been on Gabapentin in one form or another for ten years, on and off. It's a medication that must be given on time and daily. It isn't an as-needed medication like an opioid. Expect a solid two weeks before expecting any improvement. Gabapentin doesn't work for all nerve pain but I'm crossing my fingers it works well since her nerve pain is acute onset.

Celebrex works pretty much within the first few doses and I hope a continuing dose will keep the inflammation down.

As for the antibiotics, it's a good broad spectrum and should give good results if her infection responds. Two weeks should be sufficient, just make sure she gets the entire two week course in order to fully knock out the infection. It's a medication many humans take daily for very long periods of time, especially for acne. It does cause upset stomach in humans but I can't speak to how she will react. It may make her feel like crap so it's worth feeding with some rice or pasta.

...I don't know what effect it has on birds, but I know personally Gabapentin makes me super drowsy, though it's very dose dependant. It's something to look for in Maya, if she's still seeming a little tired, and might need some extra naps.

Brittany and Aquila, thank you both so much for sharing with me your experiences with the medications Maya is taking. Such information is always VERY valuable!

Maya has been fortunate in that she has not experienced any of the possible side-effects thus far. But those symptoms are definitely things for which I'll be on watch.

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[Terry57]

Stephen, I was so hoping for an easy diagnosis that could be fixed right up with the meds, but life isn't that simple, is it?
The one thing I know beyond a shadow of a doubt is that Maya could NOT be in any better hands. She has every chance in the world at a long life with you and your family there for her. I am so glad that Jolly's test results were great, that is one worry you can take off your mind. Your vet really sounds like he knows what he is talking about, and I like how they don't stand on ceremony and just get you the results back. I remember what you went through before waiting for results and am so glad you don't have that to deal with as well.
Sending you massive hugs and much love, my Friend.