Questions about 5 months YCA

texsize

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Your bird sound a-lot like Merlin my Mexican red headed amazon rather than my Bingo.

Merlin is still a young bird 6/7 years old.
very playful & active.

When Merlin lands somewhere he shouldn’t (usually up high ) we have this duster on a long pole.
We chase him off and away from no no territory.
If he continues to go there he goes back to the cage.
It is punishment for him (and Luna ) because no more flying.
It works, they get the message.

My Tiels use to land on the floor.
I did not like that, afraid of stepping on them.
If a Tiel landed on the floor 3 times it was back to the cage
 
OP
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Dec 8, 2023
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Meeko - Surinam Amazon
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Your bird sound a-lot like Merlin my Mexican red headed amazon rather than my Bingo.

Merlin is still a young bird 6/7 years old.
very playful & active.

When Merlin lands somewhere he shouldn’t (usually up high ) we have this duster on a long pole.
We chase him off and away from no no territory.
If he continues to go there he goes back to the cage.
It is punishment for him (and Luna ) because no more flying.
It works, they get the message.

My Tiels use to land on the floor.
I did not like that, afraid of stepping on them.
If a Tiel landed on the floor 3 times it was back to the cage
How has it been working for you with using the cage as the occasional punishment? I’ve been afraid of making him see the cage as a negative thing since he’s so fond of it now. Just putting him in the cage is probably considered a reward for him, but he’s not too fond of closed doors so it would be an effective correction.
 

texsize

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How has it been working for you with using the cage as the occasional punishment? I’ve been afraid of making him see the cage as a negative thing since he’s so fond of it now. Just putting him in the cage is probably considered a reward for him, but he’s not too fond of closed doors so it would be an effective correction.
The Twins get out of cage time 2 times a day.
they don’t have free rain it the house except morning and evening.
Amazons make noise at that time very regularly (my Bingo is exception).
So I figure if they have other things to distract themselves with (flying and exploring) it cuts down on the noise.
I think it does.
That’s why going back too soon is punishment.

Bella is the bird that gets to “rule the roost “ with the most amount of out of cage time.
She is a plucker and rescue and try to give 6 hours Out of cage.
But both Bella and the Twins can fly (Bingo can’t) and having all three out is I think stressful for Bella.
When the Twins fly she gets worried.

So for all those reasons I do think they see going back early as a punishment.

I can have all three amazons out at once but only if I have Bingo right with me.

Luna doesn’t like Bingo and will try to fight him.
Merlin seems fascinated by Bingo and wants to be friends but I am afraid Bingo would fight him.
 
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Meeko - Surinam Amazon
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The Twins get out of cage time 2 times a day.
they don’t have free rain it the house except morning and evening.
Amazons make noise at that time very regularly (my Bingo is exception).
So I figure if they have other things to distract themselves with (flying and exploring) it cuts down on the noise.
I think it does.
That’s why going back too soon is punishment.

Bella is the bird that gets to “rule the roost “ with the most amount of out of cage time.
She is a plucker and rescue and try to give 6 hours Out of cage.
But both Bella and the Twins can fly (Bingo can’t) and having all three out is I think stressful for Bella.
When the Twins fly she gets worried.

So for all those reasons I do think they see going back early as a punishment.

I can have all three amazons out at once but only if I have Bingo right with me.

Luna doesn’t like Bingo and will try to fight him.
Merlin seems fascinated by Bingo and wants to be friends but I am afraid Bingo would fight him.
I think the noise thing comes when they mature? Meeko is generally a very quiet bird, although he loves to talk with himself, there’s absolutely never any screaming.

Sounds like you have a lovely flock ^^,

I just saw that the pellets he’s on contains 16% of fat. I know this is too much for an adult Amazon, but is it normal to have the babies on it?
He’s on Nutribird P15 Tropical. I have found one place that sells Harrison’s here in Norway so I can potentially get that if this isn’t good for him.
 

wrench13

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Pellets. WHile there are recognized better brands, Harrisons is one of them, the best pellet is the one your parrot will actually eat. I've tried many of the 'best' ones - Salty refuses to eat them. SO we settle for the 'mid-grade' that he will eat.
Note if you do switch, do so over the course of many weeks, gradually adding more "new" and reducing the "old" in his food bowl. Don't switch abruptly, as parrots are quite capable of starving themselves to death over this. Hopefully he is not on a pellet-only diet.
 
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Meeko - Surinam Amazon
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Pellets. WHile there are recognized better brands, Harrisons is one of them, the best pellet is the one your parrot will actually eat. I've tried many of the 'best' ones - Salty refuses to eat them. SO we settle for the 'mid-grade' that he will eat.
Note if you do switch, do so over the course of many weeks, gradually adding more "new" and reducing the "old" in his food bowl. Don't switch abruptly, as parrots are quite capable of starving themselves to death over this. Hopefully he is not on a pellet-only diet.
Thank you so much!
I’ve read the feeding info and I also give him fresh greens and fruits according to the percentages recommended on this forum.
I still have struggles with amounts. Since the recommendation is percentages of his whole diet, but percentages of what total? Will he be perfectly able himself to not over eat something if the total given is too big?
Let’s say I think the total amount of food he’s supposed to have is much larger than what it’s supposed to be, he will then for example have more fruit available and choose that over something else. So the percentages of what he’s given are still perfect, but everything given is too much and he will then eat too much fruit because he prefers fruit. I’m throwing a lot away every day.

We have a morning routine where he joins me in preparing his food for the day, it’s really lovely. His absolute favourite is asparagus beans. I’ve tried chillies, but he just throws them on the floor.
 

texsize

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I think the noise thing comes when they mature? Meeko is generally a very quiet bird, although he loves to talk with himself, there’s absolutely never any screaming.

Sounds like you have a lovely flock ^^,

I just saw that the pellets he’s on contains 16% of fat. I know this is too much for an adult Amazon, but is it normal to have the babies on it?
He’s on Nutribird P15 Tropical. I have found one place that sells Harrison’s here in Norway so I can potentially get that if this isn’t good for him.
Bingo isn’t a morning/evening screamer.
He is a quiet bird as long as you give him everything he wants.

when everyone is out of the living room he screams (contact call I suppose).
If we eat and don’t share he screams.

Those are the two main exceptions .

Sometimes he can get loud when you’re talking on the phone.
 

wrench13

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Fruits - Salty gets 4 blackberries, or 6 blueberries or a few slices of Kiwi or 1 apple wedge cut into small pieces. One of these, every day. For a lunch, and most are gone by 6:30 or so. Fruits should be a small part of the diet, and maybe even removed when he gets to puberty (amps them up, just like children!).

Give you an idea of his overall diet
Breakfast 1 walnut, 1 or 2 Nutraberries and pellets which he has enoough to last all day and more.

Lunch is the above fruits

Dinner is chop, about 4 - 5 good tablespoons of it, with 2 Nutraberries crushed up in it, to absorb the excess moisture. Or some sweet 'tater or 1/3 of a acorn squash.
 

SailBoat

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I am very careful regarding where I place our Julio for a 'time-out' as stated above, a neutral place is best as one never wants the cage or perches that are commonly used to be seen as a 'time-out' place. The idea is that for that brief minute he is aware that this is more than a simple move to a common place. Turning your back to him is a hardwired thing in the Amazon World! At some point, your Amazon will turn his back on you. Sweet talking generally helps, but you will quickly get the point he understands what it means!

Clicker training is something I avoid as if you are going to use it, you must always carry the darn thing with you, Always! In my opinion it is better to use your voice as you will have that will you! As I had stated before, when you approach or want you Amazon to do something, always assure he knows that you are communicating with him!

Love that you are working with him as you are correct they are in the learning stage and everything is exciting!

I am a strong believer in walking along flight paths that you want your Amazon to fly along! I commonly include it as part of the Step-Up training! It is also a great way to teach 'Go To' as when he steps-up you can walk along a path to a safe place to land!

Very important: Teaching your Amazons that some surfaces may look empty but are hard!! Mirrors, pictures, windows, etc.. With this set of fight paths, one fakes a crash into those surfaces, lots of drama and than one taps on the surface!! If you in fact lightly hit the surface and say hard as you bring his bill to the surface. As you watch with time, he begins to lean back away from the surface. Quickly, he begins looking at you as if you are a slow learner! That is assurance that he got it!!

We feed with abundance, he always knows that food is available and fear of starvation is something he never has to be conceded about! Fear of starvation can be the root of many behavioral problems with both very young and/or rehomed Parrots.

Take care of fruits as they are common sources of sugar and like a young child, can become a handful with to much! I use them as treats and rewards!!
 
OP
C
Dec 8, 2023
19
28
Norway
Parrots
Meeko - Surinam Amazon
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Bingo isn’t a morning/evening screamer.
He is a quiet bird as long as you give him everything he wants.

when everyone is out of the living room he screams (contact call I suppose).
If we eat and don’t share he screams.

Those are the two main exceptions .

Sometimes he can get loud when you’re talking on the phone.
Maybe I'm lucky then, we'll see. He's constantly flock calling us when we're out of the room, but it's just the sweetest little "Hello?".
 
OP
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Dec 8, 2023
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28
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Parrots
Meeko - Surinam Amazon
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Fruits - Salty gets 4 blackberries, or 6 blueberries or a few slices of Kiwi or 1 apple wedge cut into small pieces. One of these, every day. For a lunch, and most are gone by 6:30 or so. Fruits should be a small part of the diet, and maybe even removed when he gets to puberty (amps them up, just like children!).

Give you an idea of his overall diet
Breakfast 1 walnut, 1 or 2 Nutraberries and pellets which he has enoough to last all day and more.

Lunch is the above fruits

Dinner is chop, about 4 - 5 good tablespoons of it, with 2 Nutraberries crushed up in it, to absorb the excess moisture. Or some sweet 'tater or 1/3 of a acorn squash.
Thank you so much, this is exactly what I need! I've been feeling like I'm feeding him a ton of vegetables because there's always a lot left, but I see now that he's really not eating much. I started weighing him yesterday and will do that everyday to keep track and make sure he eats enough.
 
OP
C
Dec 8, 2023
19
28
Norway
Parrots
Meeko - Surinam Amazon
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I am very careful regarding where I place our Julio for a 'time-out' as stated above, a neutral place is best as one never wants the cage or perches that are commonly used to be seen as a 'time-out' place. The idea is that for that brief minute he is aware that this is more than a simple move to a common place. Turning your back to him is a hardwired thing in the Amazon World! At some point, your Amazon will turn his back on you. Sweet talking generally helps, but you will quickly get the point he understands what it means!

Clicker training is something I avoid as if you are going to use it, you must always carry the darn thing with you, Always! In my opinion it is better to use your voice as you will have that will you! As I had stated before, when you approach or want you Amazon to do something, always assure he knows that you are communicating with him!

Love that you are working with him as you are correct they are in the learning stage and everything is exciting!

I am a strong believer in walking along flight paths that you want your Amazon to fly along! I commonly include it as part of the Step-Up training! It is also a great way to teach 'Go To' as when he steps-up you can walk along a path to a safe place to land!

Very important: Teaching your Amazons that some surfaces may look empty but are hard!! Mirrors, pictures, windows, etc.. With this set of fight paths, one fakes a crash into those surfaces, lots of drama and than one taps on the surface!! If you in fact lightly hit the surface and say hard as you bring his bill to the surface. As you watch with time, he begins to lean back away from the surface. Quickly, he begins looking at you as if you are a slow learner! That is assurance that he got it!!

We feed with abundance, he always knows that food is available and fear of starvation is something he never has to be conceded about! Fear of starvation can be the root of many behavioral problems with both very young and/or rehomed Parrots.

Take care of fruits as they are common sources of sugar and like a young child, can become a handful with to much! I use them as treats and rewards!!
Gotcha! He has started to flock call a little when I put him in timeout now, so it's slowly starting to work for us.

I've been a clicker trainer for years (many years ago) and have always made sure I have a word with the same effect as the clicker, it's a good tip!

I will do the surface training with him, so far we've covered up all the mirrors and windows he has access to, but I will get right to it.

He will never have to go hungry, not at all, but I think it's a shame to throw away a lot of food every day because I have no clue if a parrot eats 10 grams or 10 kg per day, if you get what I mean. Our food prices have sky rocketed so we just don't feel like we can afford to throw away food. I got a really good estimate to work out from from Wrench and I can immediately see that he's not eating half of the vegetables he feeds his birds (4-5 table spoons), he's been getting aproximately the same amount, but there's always a lot left.
I'd like to be able to see how much he actually eats of eveything to better be able to see if he gets everything he needs in case of health problems of any kind.
My ADHD is too fond of detailed lists to make sure I don't f**k up in any way.

Will do, I've already noticed him being more hyper when he gets fruits and also he doesn't care for the vegetables when the fruits have been available.

Do they hold a grudge for some time? I've noticed him seemingly punishing me some while after I've "forcefully" removed him from things he likes to destroy. As in he's coming to me for a step up and then stepping up and biting me. It always happens after he's been corrected in some way, not otherwise.

The previous owner told me that he loves showers and also the the blow dryer.
I'm not sure if he loves it or gets annoyed by it. He started screaming a lot, also actively trying to get away from the water by standing on my foot. He made himself big and was really vocal. This could look like excitement to me, but mostly like he really wasn't having it. He lifted his wings to get dried by the blow dryer, but got more and more vocal and then started to lunge at the blow dryer.
He seemed more annoyed than anything to me, but it's really hard for me to tell the difference, specially since they told me that he loves it.

Thank you again for your time, i know Meeko will benefit from it!
 
OP
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Dec 8, 2023
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Meeko - Surinam Amazon
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I have a question about feeding. He's a social eater and it seems like he prefers to eat bigger pieces of vegetables that we hold. Is it okay to keep feeding him like that for both us and family and friends? He's eating way more this way compared to when I put things in his bowl. I've tried different sizes in his bowl as well, but he's not that interested. I will of course continue to give him vegetables in his bowl.

Also, when have they earned the right to sit on the shoulder? We don't let him anymore, but besides from the first day where he tried a little pinch on my cheek he's been so gentle everytime he forces his way up there. He's even been preening my ear.
Is it later when we know for sure that he knows how hard is too hard when trying to correct us? He has really been the sweetest bird except for when he gets annoyed for corrections, then he's a massive dick.
 
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wrench13

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Amazons, and most parrots, are capable of holding a grudge if you piss them off sufficiently. How long they hold it depends on their individual personality, the seriousness of your infraction and how well you kiss their ass for offending them. Example - I used to go to China for 2 weeks at a time for business a few times a year. If I neglected to explain to Salty in advance that I would be gone and for how long, when I returned it would be a few days of him being the classic bitey Amazon. If I did explain it, it cut tht down to a day or 2. AS I've said they are smart and have a lot of the same emotions we do. They are very much like 3 year old toddlers and the quicker you really understand that the better you both will be. An Amazon that turns his back to you really is telling you to go piss off. Apologize profusely and re-approach him when the mood is over. DO not include a treat in this apology, or you will be training him to be angry all the time.

Parrots are social eaters. All my parrots that I've had really enjoyed eating with the family. If not the same food then just for the social comradery. Our little BeeBee parrot Max's cage used to be on the kitchen table and he LOVED to eat dinner with us. Salty has a much bigger cage and away from the table, but he always eats what's in his food bowl, regardless of what is in it, when we eat dinner.
Some parrots adore showers, some prefer to be schpritzed with a pump spray bottle, some like running sink water and some will just always try to bathe in their water bowls. Getting fluffed up, spreading wings and being vocal are very Amazon behaviors when getting wet. Salty used to like actual showers but now he prefers the spray bottle. If your zon does not like that, try getting a bottle with a different color spray tip. Its not unusual for a given bird to take objection to a red tip for example, but a blue or green one -no problem. I think that is related to the flash colors of their extended wings. Flash colors are those that are only visible when the wing is extended. To some its a big deal, others could care less. Some birds will be very upset if you wear glasses that have their flash color, or other colored apparel. And some dont give a hoot. Individuals - remember? Make sure that hair drier is a) not too hot, keep a foot or ore away from him and b) never allowed to overheat - critical, as hair driers heating elements are always teflon coated for corrosion prevention and overheated teflon releases DEADLY TO PARROT fumes. Anything teflon coated must never be allowed to overheat and teflon is on a LOT of stuff besides just cookware. Reseach on here for tons of info on teflon and related products (and sadly the many stories of how it has killed parrots).
 
OP
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Dec 8, 2023
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Meeko - Surinam Amazon
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Amazons, and most parrots, are capable of holding a grudge if you piss them off sufficiently. How long they hold it depends on their individual personality, the seriousness of your infraction and how well you kiss their ass for offending them. Example - I used to go to China for 2 weeks at a time for business a few times a year. If I neglected to explain to Salty in advance that I would be gone and for how long, when I returned it would be a few days of him being the classic bitey Amazon. If I did explain it, it cut tht down to a day or 2. AS I've said they are smart and have a lot of the same emotions we do. They are very much like 3 year old toddlers and the quicker you really understand that the better you both will be. An Amazon that turns his back to you really is telling you to go piss off. Apologize profusely and re-approach him when the mood is over. DO not include a treat in this apology, or you will be training him to be angry all the time.

Parrots are social eaters. All my parrots that I've had really enjoyed eating with the family. If not the same food then just for the social comradery. Our little BeeBee parrot Max's cage used to be on the kitchen table and he LOVED to eat dinner with us. Salty has a much bigger cage and away from the table, but he always eats what's in his food bowl, regardless of what is in it, when we eat dinner.
Some parrots adore showers, some prefer to be schpritzed with a pump spray bottle, some like running sink water and some will just always try to bathe in their water bowls. Getting fluffed up, spreading wings and being vocal are very Amazon behaviors when getting wet. Salty used to like actual showers but now he prefers the spray bottle. If your zon does not like that, try getting a bottle with a different color spray tip. Its not unusual for a given bird to take objection to a red tip for example, but a blue or green one -no problem. I think that is related to the flash colors of their extended wings. Flash colors are those that are only visible when the wing is extended. To some its a big deal, others could care less. Some birds will be very upset if you wear glasses that have their flash color, or other colored apparel. And some dont give a hoot. Individuals - remember? Make sure that hair drier is a) not too hot, keep a foot or ore away from him and b) never allowed to overheat - critical, as hair driers heating elements are always teflon coated for corrosion prevention and overheated teflon releases DEADLY TO PARROT fumes. Anything teflon coated must never be allowed to overheat and teflon is on a LOT of stuff besides just cookware. Reseach on here for tons of info on teflon and related products (and sadly the many stories of how it has killed parrots).
I've seen you describe this before and I immediately took it to heart so we're always explaining to him what we will be doing and for how long we will be away.

We will keep doing the social eating then, is it also fine for us to hold his food or can this be considered pair bonding behaviour when he's older? I've read about mushy and warmer food being a no go later because of this.

I was very careful with the heat and had it on the lowest setting and kept it some distance away from him. I didn't know this about teflon and blow dryers, but I will make sure to check this in the future. I know about teflon and birds in general and we don't have any teflon cook ware except for the air fryer which we haven't dared using. I know that the air fryer contains teflon, but it's stated specifically that the dangerous parts of teflon is removed from it so it's supposed to be safe, but I don't know if that means just safe for humans or also for the birds. Do you happen to know by any chance? We won't be taking any chances and need to find out for sure before we use it since it's used on high heat.

Thank you for great info!
 

texsize

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Bingo loves going in the shower with me.
No matter how wet he gets he always finishes off with a bath in his water dish.
He HATES spray bottles. You Must have bars between you and Bingo or he will do everything in his power to get to you/it.

Merlin loves getting sprayed.
He has his own way of signaling that he wants a bath.

Some sounds can drive an amazon to take a bath.
I read of several people that when they run the vacuum their birds take baths.

Amazon’s hold grudges.
They will forgive, somehow I don’t think they will forget.
 

texsize

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I think I can speak for the rest of the Zon heads.

We are all a little bit envious.
At my age taking on a young amazon would just be irresponsible.
.


You have a young, impressionable bird that will be a long time companion.

I will be following your journey with interest.
 
OP
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Dec 8, 2023
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Meeko - Surinam Amazon
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Bingo loves going in the shower with me.
No matter how wet he gets he always finishes off with a bath in his water dish.
He HATES spray bottles. You Must have bars between you and Bingo or he will do everything in his power to get to you/it.

Merlin loves getting sprayed.
He has his own way of signaling that he wants a bath.

Some sounds can drive an amazon to take a bath.
I read of several people that when they run the vacuum their birds take baths.

Amazon’s hold grudges.
They will forgive, somehow I don’t think they will forget.
I hope Meeko will love bathing eventually.
I was panicking a little because on day 2 with us he was suddenly smelling really intensely of something honey like, but more on the "something organic has died" side so I tried a spray bottle, which he didn't like at all. Then later that evening the smell disappeared and he was smelling mildy of flowers again. I've now learned that this is a thing and it's really interesting! I could smell him almost from the other room!
 
OP
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Dec 8, 2023
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Meeko - Surinam Amazon
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I think I can speak for the rest of the Zon heads.

We are all a little bit envious.
At my age taking on a young amazon would just be irresponsible.
.


You have a young, impressionable bird that will be a long time companion.

I will be following your journey with interest.
That is so nice to hear! We're having a blast between all the growling and nipping. My first day back to work after having him and all I can think about is him and how he's doing so I will buy a camera with sound to make sure he's alright while i'm gone.
We have our landlord upstairs who will let me know if they hear screaming and so far there's been nothing. Can't wait to get home to him!
 

wrench13

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The Amazon 'smell'! Many have tried to quantify it but apparently either each bird has his/her own odor, or our individual noses interpret it differently. To me, Salty's everyday smell is imperceptible, but when he is really happy, he smells like Christmas cookies! Best way I can describe it.
 

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