The *respectful* GMO discussion thread

[Kiwibird]

This does seem to be a subject many bird owners are interested in/have an opinion on, I thought I would create a thread where the topic can be discussed in a mature, respectful manner-

What are YOUR opinions on feeding your parrots GMO (genetically modified organisms) containing products? Why do you feel this way? Do you have any alternative options to GMO containing bird food you want to share? Anything really that is relevant and not rude or venturing outside the topic of how GMO products relate to our parrots/other dietary options. Also, if you want to link one of the studies that have graphic images/videos attached to them, please give the heads up so those who don't want to see lab rats in that state or the younger forum members don't have to.

***PLEASE KEEP IN MIND***

 

[labell]

The long term effects are something that truly concerns me. Most folks when I ask them their thoughts on gmo don't realize that it isn't healthier more hardy plants or hybrid roses but gmo'd with bug dna or built in pesticides. Or a kill gene that keeps the plant from producing seed to be replanted. The biggest offender Monsanto is the creator of Round Up and many of the pesticides that are killing off bees. Another topic I don't think a lot of folks realize the important role bees play in our food chain.
Monsanto was responsible for agent orange, those of us old enough to know or have fought in Vietnam know the long term effects this defoliant had on people.

 

[Christinenc2000]

The long term effects are something that truly concerns me. Most folks when I ask them their thoughts on gmo don't realize that it isn't healthier more hardy plants or hybrid roses but gmo'd with bug dna or built in pesticides. Or a kill gene that keeps the plant from producing seed to be replanted. The biggest offender Monsanto is the creator of Round Up and many of the pesticides that are killing off bees. Another topic I don't think a lot of folks realize the important role bees play in our food chain.
Monsanto was responsible for agent orange, those of us old enough to know or have fought in Vietnam know the long term effects this defoliant had on people.

“If the bee disappeared off the surface of the globe then man would only have four years of life left. No more bees, no more pollination, no more plants, no more animals, no more man.” – Albert Einstein

 

[labell]

The three biggest offenders in the US for gmo are soy, corn and wheat.

The simplistic yet very true statement of "We are what we eat" applies to all living creatures.

Monsanto has been very clear in it's agenda to own the worlds food distribution. If you dare to go down the rabbit hole you will find that ALL those food companies you think are out there are actually owned by very few so this is not far off in left field. Let's just contemplate the ramifications of one company controlling the worlds food sources shall we? Warfare could be conducted by STARVATION! By tainting the food population could be controlled. I shudder when I think about the last few years of infants being fed baby formula laden with gmo and the health issues they are bound to face. I also watch 5 and 8 year old kids walking home after school in my neighborhood that are already morbidly obese.

 

[Birdman666]

The long term effects are something that truly concerns me. Most folks when I ask them their thoughts on gmo don't realize that it isn't healthier more hardy plants or hybrid roses but gmo'd with bug dna or built in pesticides. Or a kill gene that keeps the plant from producing seed to be replanted. The biggest offender Monsanto is the creator of Round Up and many of the pesticides that are killing off bees. Another topic I don't think a lot of folks realize the important role bees play in our food chain.
Monsanto was responsible for agent orange, those of us old enough to know or have fought in Vietnam know the long term effects this defoliant had on people.

And they were so particularly honest about the effects of agent orange on humans, and their dealings with the vets who were exposed to it, that it's just sooooo easy to trust them when they say... "Don't worry. We got it right this time!"

The biggest thing is I don't think I really know enough about it to have an informed decision. And very few people are sophisticated enough to really understand the long term consequences, and what those might be... (IF, IN FACT, ANYONE IN THE WORLD ACTUALLY DOES UNDERSTAND WHAT THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES MIGHT BE...)

So how can you really come to an informed decision?!

And I think the jury is still out on the cause of colony collapse disorder, which I find way more frightening than GMO... (unless it turns out the GMO is causing it.)

Besides, we started out with prehensile tails... whose to say that growing them back would be such a bad thing?!

 

[JerseyWendy]

I'm almost ashamed to admit it - I, too, don't know enough about it..... But I want to learn, and therefore truly appreciate this thread.

I wonder if any of you know if "White Nose Syndrom" (the disease bats have been heavily afflicted with, and so many were wiped out by it) could have anything to do with GMOs, especially because bats' primary diet is bugs...

 

[labell]

To throw out a parrot related concern as it applies to gmo I have been troubled by the baby bird feeding formulas. The first three ingredients in most of the major brands are soy, corn and wheat. Back when I first was taught to feed, breeders made their own with much better ingredients imo. The stuff now...mix water and it stinks to high heaven!

When I was still considering breeding my eclectus which I no longer am contemplating. I was excited about the prospect of co-parenting, letting the parents feed and wean completely with me just daily socializing and cuddling the fids. I was VERY interested in what kind of wonderful effects this would have on babies in terms of health, size and longevity. I will never personally know now but I can tell you I would LOVE to see more breeders taking on this practice, unfortunately with the bottom dollar first and foremost on their minds I don't see this happening.

 

[labell]

I'm almost ashamed to admit it - I, too, don't know enough about it..... But I want to learn, and therefore truly appreciate this thread.

I wonder if any of you know if "White Nose Syndrom" (the disease bats have been heavily afflicted with, and so many were wiped out by it) could have anything to do with GMOs, especially because bats' primary diet is bugs...

I have considered that myself Wendy. There are gmo foods that are designed so that when the bug eats the plant their stomach's explode! I wouldn't be surprised if this is effecting bats and other bug eating creatures. I know I raise an eyebrow when I hear of all the stomach and bowel related issues more and more human's and pets are experiencing. How can they not think about what that same thing does to our intestines?

 

[Kiwibird]

Now that the "other situation" is resolved

I am always (personally) open to new technological advances, especially when it comes to food, but with the caveat it needs to be rigorously tested over LONG periods of time in settings that will replicate actual market use of it. Imagine crops that could be grown in drought-stricken areas of the developing world or plants with higher nutritional value that could provide malnourished/starving children with an inexpensive source of adequate nutrition? The potential for GMO products to do good in the world is there, but that doesn't make them inherently safe nor does it make current testing procedures represent an accurate picture of the effects current GMO products have when consumed long term. I personally feel GMO foods should be approached with skepticism and warrant A LOT more studies over a longer timescale before allowing on the market. Just because you can eat a cob of GMO corn and not drop dead does not necessarily mean it is safe to eat large quantities of over long periods of time.

GMO products were not only rushed onto the market shortly after development (after inadequate testing) but within a matter of a few decades since their "conception", they have completely saturated the food supply STILL without any adequate independent safety and environmental impact testing. While there is sometimes correlations without causation, usually if there's smoke, theres fire. I think that it is reasonable to question if the rise of certain health issues in animals and humans is in any way linked with GMO products. If they are so "safe" for long term, large scale consumption, then why are the companies who produce them so unwilling to prove it? If they are so "confident" in the safety of their product, why do the NOT want it labeled with their company logo and name attached with pride? Even more troubling, the companies who hold the patents for these GMOs do not allow for independent testing. Not "carefully selected independent researchers" but rather anyone who cares to do a study?
https://www.organicconsumers.org/ne...failed-consumers-genetically-engineered-foods
What are they so worried about? It is next to impossible for, say a university or independent lab, to get samples of GMO seeds for lab testing. Those who have managed have had disturbing results in their small test groups of animals, including an increase of obesity, tumors, cancers and other health problems in animals on a GMO corn (glyphosate-resistant corn by Monsanto) based diet
Study Linking Genetically Modified Corn to Rat Tumors Is Retracted - Scientific American
Shock findings in new GMO study: Rats fed lifetime of GM corn grow horrifying tumors, 70% of females die early - NaturalNews.com (***Animal testing photos in this article***)

In my opinion, the fact these foods (with the list of GMO's growing ever longer) have had virtually no safety testing before hitting market paired with the (deliberately) limited research that has been able to be done yielding troubling results, that GMO-containing foods probably do not belong in our bids diets (or ours, but I'm keeping this about parrots) at this time. For those of you who chose to look, if a ALL GMO corn-based diet did that to a rat, what are the (long term) potential health effects of a heavily-GMO laden diet on a parrot? Is there a reason to not play it safe and to lessen/eliminate GMO containing foods from a birds diet? Given the sensitivity of our birds to things such as pesticides, is it wise to feed them foods where the plants contain their own pesticide or residues from powerful pesticides they were engineered to resist? There is already evidence emerging that wild songbirds (along with bees, as Labell mentioned and butterflies) are dying due to GMO crops.
https://www.organicconsumers.org/essays/gmos-are-killing-bees-butterflies-birds-and

For those who have had parrots on a soy and/or corn-based pelleted diet for a long time, did you know GMO corn and soy has only been on the market on a mass scale for about 15 years (it was only created about 20 years ago)?
Bt Crops Could Be Monsanto's Greatest Failure
The Roundup Ready Controversy
When you consider many pellet brands have now been out for several decades longer than the GMO produce has, and may have only RECENTLY switched to using GMO produce in their products (thus you may not be seeing any effects of long term damage in your birds yet). What may have been fairly innocuous 20 years ago is probably not the same formulation as today. Is feeding your birds a GMO-containg pelleted diet worth the risk to you?

I personally opt to not risk it with Kiwi. I opt for an (overwhelmingly) organic, varied/seasonal, fresh-foods based diet that is closer to what he might eat in nature. I have not completely written off GMO's as having the potential to one day be something I may offer Kiwi, but as of right now, there is no way they will be included as any significant portion (none at all, if I can help it) of his diet.

 

[Birdman666]

Doesn't exactly make you feel all warm and fuzzy does it?!

 

[Kiwibird]

I know I raise an eyebrow when I hear of all the stomach and bowel related issues more and more human's and pets are experiencing. How can they not think about what that same thing does to our intestines?

Take it as you will, but I was diagnosed with Crohn's in my teens. It is a truly painful, debilitating condition that was so aggressive in my case, I was essentially starving to death. I was frustrated, exhausted and in agony 24 hours a day. The medications, stays in the hospital and (clearly) unsound diet recommended by the doctors only seemed to be exacerbating it. I didn't even want to entertain the idea of surgery at that point. That is when I switched my diet to predominantly organic, more fresh and limited to no processed foods. Within 6 weeks of making common sense dietary changes I was improving more than my doctors had been able to help over the course of 18 months with their "advanced medical knowledge and technology". It took a good 8 months to return to 'normal', but it has been in total remission now for about 7 years. Some may not believe or agree with me, but I will never be convinced otherwise that it wasn't the food (including a lot of likely GMO products) that caused the Crohns and that removing those foods saved my life.

 

[Kiwibird]

To throw out a parrot related concern as it applies to gmo I have been troubled by the baby bird feeding formulas. The first three ingredients in most of the major brands are soy, corn and wheat. Back when I first was taught to feed, breeders made their own with much better ingredients imo. The stuff now...mix water and it stinks to high heaven!

I don't know where this may be appropriate to post your homemade formula since weaning a bird if you aren't experienced isn't such a great idea, but some of the "old school" knowledge could really help others who are learning when it comes to alternatives to store bough formulas. My grandma used to take in (otherwise would die) baby songbirds occasionally and weaned them on mashed up worms. Some of those little guys lives for years and years in her care. It would make *sense* that a parrot would be better off being weaned on some sort of fruit/veg/nut type concoction instead of a soy/wheat/corn formula.

The love and always keeping birds best interests at heart shines through.

 

[labell]

April I really wish I still had it written down or that I could remember, some of the ingredients pop into mind and it is what zoo's made and recommended but for the life of me it has been way too many years since then to accurately remember. Most breeders including the woman who taught me jumped at convenient bird feeding formula when it really took off and was easily obtained but again this was way before gmo and there were large success rates in the beginning with ready to use formula. Kay still added other stuff to the ready made, pureed baby food mostly (fruits and veggies) but bird food manufactures have been highly against that and claim that it throws off the nutrient balance of the food.

 

[Taw5106]

I haven't researched GMOS, but I have started modifying my diet and I am far from perfect. I think human thinking and technology are spiraling faster than they should. I believe we've seen a mass increase in chronic illnesses like diabetes, cancers, digestive disorders, etc because we have evolved to a culture of prepared foods compared to how humans lived before inventions, technology and science took off. I'm diabetic, if I eat cornbread, I can feel my blood sugar sky rocket, but if I eat corn off the cob or kernels, I don't get the extreme spike. The difference, cornbread is refined, reprocessed, mixed with other chemicals where corn isn't that processed. I'm sure the corn is GMO Too. My mother worked for Coca Cola so we grew up on sodas, I rarely drink sodas now, mostly water, tea and coffee. Most of our food is processed or modified now and I think I have that to thank for the diabetes, oh and my love of food.

My nieces and nephews think the dogs can't eat if there is no dog food and feeding them scraps is bad so I ask them if they've studied dog food factories yet that existed 1000 years ago and they just blink. They really think food has to come from somewhere, in a bag, that's what they've learned. No a dog can't eat all foods or scraps but there was a time where they ate real meat, real food, etc. My bulldog Canelo has allergies to wheat and soy that affect him badly, mainly yeast infections that cover his body so I have to watch his diet.

As for my fids, I feed them veg, fruit, egg, and chicken because I've tried to get them to eat Zupreem and Harrison pellets, they throw them out of their cage, won't eat them. So they eat fresh and that has increased my intake because we share, like an apple, plus I hate throwing food away. I think we have to slow down and stop modifying food, this is all still new and there is a major lack of knowledge like others have said, long term affects, etc.

 

[JerseyWendy]

April, thank you for the links. All of them. I'm not gonna lie - my head is spinning right now, trying to 'digest' some of the things I've read and learned. The photos left me nauseous and in tears. Wow!!!!

Many of you know I was born and raised in Germany, and up until I met my husband, I had never eaten a kernel of corn. In Germany corn was fed strictly to live stock. My mother would have never dreamed of cooking it for any of us. And I'll be honest here, the first time I tried it, I wasn't all that impressed, and even less so when I discovered the corn would exit looking about the same way it entered my body. :54:

 

[Puck]

I am not a big believer in the huge growth of disease or in the horrors of GMOs. I am a special needs teacher, and I also suffer from bipolar disorder. You have no idea how many times people have tried to convince me to stop taking my medications and try "natural" remedies. I have heard about the terrors of these medications, the awful side effects, and the money grubbing doctors. I have been told that yoga and meditation and good eating can "cure" my disorder. I actually left a yoga center after many years there when they held a conference where a man came in and told people that they should stop taking their anti-depressants and use yoga and meditation instead. I could not in good conscience give my money to a facility promoting that people quit their medications without a doctor's approval in exchange for natural remedies. My condition is hereditary and my mother would be dead if she wasn't on anti-depressants--no question. That is how suicidal she once was. People don't demand people quit their diabetes meds, so why should I quit my psych meds? So what does that have to do with GMOs? I feel that the claims against GMOs are similar to the claims against psychiatric meds--lots of scary ideas but not enough hard fact. Lots of people now agree that psychiatric meds are a good thing, but not so long ago they were "untested." And a lot of pro-natural-remedies people still do not like them, but I know for a fact they can change lives for the better. There are just as many articles and studies saying GMOs are safe as there are saying they are not, and I think that since we have no idea AT ALL if GMOs are doing things like killing bees or bats, to even imply that GMOs are the reason is a leap with no hard logic behind it, AKA a scare tactic. I want PROOF before any of those claims are made, because saying "it could be GMOs" is the same as saying "it could be exhaust fumes from so many cars" or "it could be the greenhouse effect." Plausible but untested. GMOs seem to be taking the blame for everything these days and are often mentioned with an increase in disease diagnosis, but the key word there is DIAGNOSIS. Tons of children these days are being diagnosed as being "on the Autism spectrum" when before they just would have been "special" or "intellectually disabled" or even just "has below level social skills" and not considered special needs at all, just different. Austism is the "popular" diagnosis right now, and parents actually push for it over the diagnosis of intellectual disability. I've seen it happen. Autism is in the media, people are aware of it, so that's what they want their special child to be labelled as. I don't think disease is increasing, I think diagnosis is. This is all I am going to say about the topic (other than a link below to just one of tons and tons of articles out there written by people who don't believe GMOs are doing all the things people claim) because I'm really not all that passionate about the subject. Okay, you think GMOs are bad and want to avoid them... That is totally 100% fine with me. It doesn't hurt anybody for certain people to steer clear of GMOs. I am not bothered by people going "all natural," and certainly not upset or offended, so I really don't care to do more than state my opinion and move on. On the other hand, the pros and cons of issues like psych meds and vaccines... I am passionate about those, and I could blab all day. But pretty much all I have to say about GMOs is that I respect other people's beliefs, but do not feel like the scientific evidence is at the point where it is hard fact, and I think a lot of the conversions to anti-GMO are done through scare tactics of "imagine what these things COULD be doing" or "look at this HORRIBLE IMAGE--it was GMOs!" But hey, to each their own!

Forbes Article on GMOs

 

[Doublete]

My brother is one of those "crazy" ones that if you get him started on medication, science, Gmo, etc... He won't stop. He has a five acres garden, greenhouses, a fully stocked storm cellar for natural disasters, and has started raising tilapia so he can be fully sustainable. Oh and they have chickens too. He originally got ducks to use for his own meat too but turns out he can't kill them, so they live in the pond and he winterized them just like the chicken. (He lives in maine).

However, he originally told me I should not take my medications for anxiety and depression until he saw that no amount of organic healthy eating would fix me.

I do believe certain foods cause harm and we may never know the extent of it, but being anti gmo, I am not.

 

[faeryphoebe1]

Then why not label products as "GMO" and give the consumer choices? If Monsanto has nothing to hide, then why all the lobbyists and strong-arming organic farmers?

Why? It's about $$. That's the bottom line.

I really like you Puck, but comparing GMOs to psych meds is like comparing weed killer mixed with fruit (being massively produced to feed millions) to insulin. I don't know any other way to put it, lol.

Psych meds save lives. GMOs do the opposite, imho. They can cause serious harm at the genetic level.

So, allow labeling, I say. Why can't Monsanto be transparent if there's nothing to hide? And guess what folks? Our cattle and farm animals are fed GMO corn. It's scary.

 

[Kiwibird]

April, thank you for the links. All of them. I'm not gonna lie - my head is spinning right now, trying to 'digest' some of the things I've read and learned. The photos left me nauseous and in tears. Wow!!!!

Many of you know I was born and raised in Germany, and up until I met my husband, I had never eaten a kernel of corn. In Germany corn was fed strictly to live stock. My mother would have never dreamed of cooking it for any of us. And I'll be honest here, the first time I tried it, I wasn't all that impressed, and even less so when I discovered the corn would exit looking about the same way it entered my body. :54:

I hope you do some more research so you can make an informed decision on whether to buy GMO products (or not)

I had no idea either that you grew up in Germany. I have heard that in many parts of the world, people do not ear corn (GMO or otherwise).

So, allow labeling, I say. Why can't Monsanto be transparent if there's nothing to hide?

This is one of my biggest GMO concerns actually. Consumers are not allowed to make a choice on whether or not they buy GMO produce. If you buy cornmeal or even some corn to cook for dinner, you have NO IDEA if it's GMO or not (though these days, it's pretty safe to assume that if it's not organic, it's likely GMO). Other foods that may be GMO are soy products (and soy is in far more foods than people realize, and not just vegetarian/vegan foods), yellow squash, papaya, wheat products and sugar beets. They have (in the past) allowed GMO tomatoes and potatoes on the market (and could well reintroduce them). They are looking to introduce GMO rice, apples and salmon in the near future. Many consumers are unaware and unable to make an informed decision due to the fact GMO products are not labeled. I second the theory that if these products are safe, why would the company who holds the gene patent not proudly display their name and GMO status on the label? It kinda makes you think they want to distance themselves from the product and leave consumers in the dark/confused about what is and isn't GMO.

 

[Flboy]

Puck,
I had to give you a like on your post! Do I agree? On much, no! But you did an excellent job of presenting your beliefs. Beliefs is the wrong word though, you have and are thinking this thru an open mind! Very well said!

Edit: On much I do agree also! I know where you are at!