Under 18? Please Read

[SailBoat]

I can understand the need to make a clear statement as to what will and will not be allowed (in this case: Age) to assure having stronger safeguards in place and in today’s World, it has merit!

I wish that I could say that the pushback was a surprise but sadly, it is not, as anything seen as a control is not welcomed by some, regardless of the reasoning.

A quick Reality Check: ParrotForum as with near all like Web based sites are opened to Hacking and as a result, everything on ParrotForum can become open to everyone to view. Another way of saying that is: Never Post anything that you would not want found on the open Web!! Do not use ParrotForum for your very private “Off-Topic” messaging as although reasonable protections are in place, Nothing Is Assured!!

 

[Terry57]

Wow, this sure blew up after I logged off!
First of all, the active teens were told about this new rule a few weeks ago. I made sure they knew after our Admin put this rule in place (one that the Mods completely agree with, I want to add).
I meant to get the public post up then but I have been having some health issues so that was delayed.

First, thank you @Cottonoid for your wonderful post. We appreciate it so much, and your second post was exactly how we viewed it as well. There are plenty of ways to figure out what age group someone is in without them telling us. And some questions we may ask, such as "Do you have a job?" or "Are you financially able to take care of the parrots needs?" are good questions to ask anyone who wants a parrot, regardless of age.

@clark_conure, I'll answer some of your points because you seem to have had the biggest problem with this, though it doesn't affect you at all.
First, by asking teens to not list their age does not make this an 18+ forum, far from it.
Teens can still post, still PM, in fact have all the same privileges that older members have with the exception of posting their age. I'm pretty sure that my first paragraph lets the teens know that they are more than welcome here.

And of course you won't see any grooming on the forum, this is not something done in the public eye.
However, we recently had a member join who was not who they claimed to be.
Would you like to know who they made fast friends with? If you guessed our teens, you would be correct.

After they were banned they joined again, but it took us some time to prove who it was. They once again seemed to gravitate towards the younger members.
I have no idea what their ultimate motives were, they seemed to be seeking attention.

But it was a wake up call for us.

If you are posting whether someone should get a parrot based entirely on age, I don't think that is a good measure for seeing if someone is a good fit to have a parrot. Asking questions of anyone wanting to get a parrot should be sufficient, such as asking about their home situation, finances concerning a parrot, experience, etc.
As @Cottonoid perfectly stated the younger members can still let people know that they still live at home, etc.
Yes, this site is about protecting parrots, and we take that very seriously. It is also about protecting our members, and we also take that very seriously.

BTW, the person with the birthday parrot was 18, so this would not have affected them at all. And the answers from the forum were the same as they would have been to a 13 year old, or a 70 year old. Why? Because their age was not needed to answer their post.

Mods cannot read anyone's private PMs between each other. That is not something we would want to do even if we could. They are called private for a reason.
For you to suggest that it would be better to block teens from being able to use PMs rather than them simply not mention their age would be an overreach, and is not going to happen. That would be punishing kids to keep them safe, and that is not what this is about at all. We simply ask that ages are not posted.
I was surprised to see that this seemed to be a big deal to you, and while we appreciate your suggestions, we will not being taking away their PM privileges.
And as far as us being able to read their PMs, if it was even possible it would mean we could also read your PMs. If I was a member I would not be comfortable with that kind of intrusion to something that is literally called Private Messages.

The Mods already keep an eye out for this sort of thing, but adding one more level of protection is a good thing. I believe we have a wonderful relationship with the younger members of the forum, and we want to protect them in what seems to be the best way possible. Not by taking away their PMing abilities, but by asking them to not post their ages. Both with posts, and to a limited amount their profile which shows up when they post, it is not only members who can read it but anyone on the internet.

@Rozalka , I'm glad that the predator who harassed you on the other forum was banned. Many predators have a preference for certain age groups, and if they can't see the ages we hope they will lose interest in trolling a forum for parrots for their prey.

I want to thank @𝕾𝖙𝖔𝖗𝖒𝖞𝕻𝖎𝖈𝖆. I was so happy to see someone who was actually affected by this new rule posting your opinions.
Don't worry, your PMs are safe...we will not take away your ability to PM, nor will your PMs be monitored.

@SailBoat is correct that any site can be hacked, but thankfully we have thus far never had a problem with that. It is a good thing to keep in mind, however, for us all.

 

[StormyPica]

Wow, this sure blew up after I logged off!
First of all, the active teens were told about this new rule a few weeks ago. I made sure they knew after our Admin put this rule in place (one that the Mods completely agree with, I want to add).
I meant to get the public post up then but I have been having some health issues so that was delayed.

First, thank you @Cottonoid for your wonderful post. We appreciate it so much, and your second post was exactly how we viewed it as well. There are plenty of ways to figure out what age group someone is in without them telling us. And some questions we may ask, such as "Do you have a job?" or "Are you financially able to take care of the parrots needs?" are good questions to ask anyone who wants a parrot, regardless of age.

@clark_conure, I'll answer some of your points because you seem to have had the biggest problem with this, though it doesn't affect you at all.
First, by asking teens to not list their age does not make this an 18+ forum, far from it.
Teens can still post, still PM, in fact have all the same privileges that older members have with the exception of posting their age. I'm pretty sure that my first paragraph lets the teens know that they are more than welcome here.

And of course you won't see any grooming on the forum, this is not something done in the public eye.
However, we recently had a member join who was not who they claimed to be.
Would you like to know who they made fast friends with? If you guessed our teens, you would be correct.

After they were banned they joined again, but it took us some time to prove who it was. They once again seemed to gravitate towards the younger members.
I have no idea what their ultimate motives were, they seemed to be seeking attention.

But it was a wake up call for us.

If you are posting whether someone should get a parrot based entirely on age, I don't think that is a good measure for seeing if someone is a good fit to have a parrot. Asking questions of anyone wanting to get a parrot should be sufficient, such as asking about their home situation, finances concerning a parrot, experience, etc.
As @Cottonoid perfectly stated the younger members can still let people know that they still live at home, etc.
Yes, this site is about protecting parrots, and we take that very seriously. It is also about protecting our members, and we also take that very seriously.

BTW, the person with the birthday parrot was 18, so this would not have affected them at all. And the answers from the forum were the same as they would have been to a 13 year old, or a 70 year old. Why? Because their age was not needed to answer their post.

Mods cannot read anyone's private PMs between each other. That is not something we would want to do even if we could. They are called private for a reason.
For you to suggest that it would be better to block teens from being able to use PMs rather than them simply not mention their age would be an overreach, and is not going to happen. That would be punishing kids to keep them safe, and that is not what this is about at all. We simply ask that ages are not posted.
I was surprised to see that this seemed to be a big deal to you, and while we appreciate your suggestions, we will not being taking away their PM privileges.
And as far as us being able to read their PMs, if it was even possible it would mean we could also read your PMs. If I was a member I would not be comfortable with that kind of intrusion to something that is literally called Private Messages.

The Mods already keep an eye out for this sort of thing, but adding one more level of protection is a good thing. I believe we have a wonderful relationship with the younger members of the forum, and we want to protect them in what seems to be the best way possible. Not by taking away their PMing abilities, but by asking them to not post their ages. Both with posts, and to a limited amount their profile which shows up when they post, it is not only members who can read it but anyone on the internet.

@Rozalka , I'm glad that the predator who harassed you on the other forum was banned. Many predators have a preference for certain age groups, and if they can't see the ages we hope they will lose interest in trolling a forum for parrots for their prey.

I want to thank @[COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)]𝕾𝖙𝖔𝖗𝖒𝖞𝕻𝖎𝖈𝖆[/COLOR]. I was so happy to see someone who was actually affected by this new rule posting your opinions.
Don't worry, your PMs are safe...we will not take away your ability to PM, nor will your PMs be monitored.

@SailBoat is correct that any site can be hacked, but thankfully we have thus far never had a problem with that. It is a good thing to keep in mind, however, for us all.

No worries, you guys are great! Of course you want to protect us, and it’s great that you can do that without taking away some of the privileges such as PMs. Though we may be younger, we should still have the same right to privacy as older members, and not have our PM’s monitored or taken away, and I’m glad you guys seem to understand that!

 

[StormyPica]

And by the way, for anyone who needs to hear this, yes, we do know who the predator Terry mentioned is, and no, we did not blindly trust them or give them any info even before we knew they were bad. So I don’t want anyone using that as an example that teens aren’t cautious and will just blindly trust anyone, and should therefore forfeit their privacy on PF.

 

[Terry57]

No worries, you guys are great! Of course you want to protect us, and it’s great that you can do that without taking away some of the privileges such as PMs. Though we may be younger, we should still have the same right to privacy as older members, and not have our PM’s monitored or taken away, and I’m glad you guys seem to understand that!

Thank you, Ollie, we think you guys are great, too!
I agree completely that you have the same right to privacy, and to all the features that the forum has. That won't change

And by the way, for anyone who needs to hear this, yes, we do know who the predator Terry mentioned is, and no, we did not blindly trust them or give them any info even before we knew they were bad. So I don’t want anyone using that as an example that teens aren’t cautious and will just blindly trust anyone, and should therefore forfeit their privacy on PF.

That's a great point, Ollie. The teens did nothing wrong in this situation, and were careful with what they shared.
We told the teens because they knew this person and were friendly with them, and we wanted them to know what had happened as a safeguard. We were unsure if anyone had shared their email address to this person and they needed to know that this person was not who they said they were. None had shared their email or anything else identifying, they all handled this person safely.
Before anyone asks who the member was, please know that we will not be answering that. We made an exception for the teens because we needed to make sure they were safe and telling them was the best way to do that.

 

[Rozalka]

And of course you won't see any grooming on the forum, this is not something done in the public eye.
However, we recently had a member join who was not who they claimed to be.
Would you like to know who they made fast friends with? If you guessed our teens, you would be correct.

After they were banned they joined again, but it took us some time to prove who it was. They once again seemed to gravitate towards the younger members.
I have no idea what their ultimate motives were, they seemed to be seeking attention.

But it was a wake up call for us.

Oh, I didn't know about this accident. Your step is right about this rule.

@Rozalka , I'm glad that the predator who harassed you on the other forum was banned. Many predators have a preference for certain age groups, and if they can't see the ages we hope they will lose interest in trolling a forum for parrots for their prey.

Actually if I can correct you... it wasn't another forum... but Wikipedia (yes, it is possible even there, hopefully there are a lot of admins who ban such people ultra-quickly - it was a miracle that I was on time to see the context because few seconds later I wasn't able to see this). But the mentioned by you guy seems to be much bigger problem because he ha a goal - making friends with children and harassing them later. In my case it was just a perverted vandalist.

 

[clark_conure]

I'm fine with whatever you all do, I have no real care in this except protecting birds (I was just curious about how you implement it from the start honestly).... and how you enforce it, with the new kid members that just show up.... I guess maybe a banner at the top of the site. People are chaotic and kids mostly so.... it's like saying ok no one under 18 is allowed on say 4chan or some other site...good luck! It's what I said before put the strategizing and onus on the community, not putting the onus on the new members. Peace

 

[Terry57]

I'm fine with whatever you all do, I have no real care in this except protecting birds (I was just curious about how you implement it from the start honestly).... and how you enforce it, with the new kid members that just show up.... I guess maybe a banner at the top of the site. People are chaotic and kids mostly so.... it's like saying ok no one under 18 is allowed on say 4chan or some other site...good luck! It's what I said before put the strategizing and onus on the community, not putting the onus on the new members. Peace

Now that the community knows about this rule, they can easily report anyone who lists their age. We would then edit it out and send a PM to the new member with a link to the rule and that we have removed it. They aren't in trouble because we have no idea who has read the rule and who hasn't.
We are quite kind in our PMs I believe, so I hardly think that this would run a new member off.

If your goal was putting the onus on the community, I'm confused as to how taking away their PMs would have had anything to do with the community?

 

[BirdyBee]

I do believe this rule is necessary. Yes, as a minor I share my age with people in real life if they ask. But, I avoid doing it online. Only a few people here know.

You may be asking, "Why is it more dangerous online than in person?" Unfortunately, online it is a lot easier to fake who you are. Like the excellent example Terry gave, the user stated they were from a different country they actually are from, faked their age, and many other things. If I was interacting with that person in real life, I'd be able to notice they are fake.

Sadly, teenagers are most commonly targeted, due to most of them being more friendly and trustworthy.

Yes, in person it could probably be dangerous. But, as said, online it is much harder to tell who they are.

As for the PM thing, I do think it is a good idea in terms of privacy, I know a forum that does it, but first, it's gonna be complicated, as adding your age apon registration isn't necessary, and most members haven't done it. Second, a lot of teenagers may feel lonely and have no in person friends, so they need someone to talk to.

Gender... I do not think gender had much of an impact. Wether you are a 13 year old male, or a 13 year old female, you are still young and vulnerable to "predators."


I am sure a lot of thought, discussion, and effort went into this decision, so I highly respect the staff for this choice, and I fully support it.


Anè

 

[Terry57]

I do believe this rule is necessary. Yes, as a minor I share my age with people in real life if they ask. But, I avoid doing it online. Only a few people here know.

You may be asking, "Why is it more dangerous online than in person?" Unfortunately, online it is a lot easier to fake who you are. Like the excellent example Terry gave, the user stated they were from a different country they actually are from, faked their age, and many other things. If I was interacting with that person in real life, I'd be able to notice they are fake.

Sadly, teenagers are most commonly targeted, due to most of them being more friendly and trustworthy.

Yes, in person it could probably be dangerous. But, as said, online it is much harder to tell who they are.

As for the PM thing, I do think it is a good idea in terms of privacy, I know a forum that does it, but first, it's gonna be complicated, as adding your age apon registration isn't necessary, and most members haven't done it. Second, a lot of teenagers may feel lonely and have no in person friends, so they need someone to talk to.

Gender... I do not think gender had much of an impact. Wether you are a 13 year old male, or a 13 year old female, you are still young and vulnerable to "predators."


I am sure a lot of thought, discussion, and effort went into this decision, so I highly respect the staff for this choice, and I fully support it.


Anè

Thank you so much, Pipp, this was beautifully said and much appreciated.

 

[Kentuckienne]

I’m curious…is it possible to restrict unsolicited DMs to underage members? It wouldn‘t prevent someone from signing up with a fake age, but it would be some barrier to improperly seeking out a possibly vulnerable person. I hope everyone knows that creeps aren’t usually obvious. They are often kind, helpful, supportive, encouraging. There is an old story about someone who asked a con man “how could you steal from someone who trusts you” and the con man answered “have you ever tried to steal from someone who DIDN’T trust you?”

 

[Terry57]

I’m curious…is it possible to restrict unsolicited DMs to underage members? It wouldn‘t prevent someone from signing up with a fake age, but it would be some barrier to improperly seeking out a possibly vulnerable person. I hope everyone knows that creeps aren’t usually obvious. They are often kind, helpful, supportive, encouraging. There is an old story about someone who asked a con man “how could you steal from someone who trusts you” and the con man answered “have you ever tried to steal from someone who DIDN’T trust you?”

This is something we can look at if simply removing the ages doesn't do the trick.

 

[moxxiethecockatoo]

I'm just gonna devils advocate here....not a hill am going to die on, but sometimes we get a 15 yo thats like I wanna get a maccaw that...literally might out live them and they are going to college and the bird is rehomed time and time again.....

I'd be more the rule...to not try to contact other than the bulletin board OR maybe ban private messages... to younger members.... but we all know we get the 13 yo or 16 yo that wants a rainbow macaw or a cockatoo and we need to say um.......here are some facts....

As I said I'd block PMs, but allow them to say how old they are so, we can say um....no your not the right person OR at least have the MODS be able to say um...that.

Just a thought.

I'm gonna be honest, I was once one of those 16y old teens that wanted a cockatoo at my age.
One year later, cockatoo mother to a lovely sulphur crested cockatoo.
And as I discussed with one of the MODS. I have a plan all figured out to never leave Moxxie's side.

 

[StormyPica]

I'm gonna be honest, I was once one of those 16y old teens that wanted a cockatoo at my age.
One year later, cockatoo mother to a lovely sulphur crested cockatoo.
And as I discussed with one of the MODS. I have a plan all figured out to never leave Moxxie's side.

Yes, BUT that is not something most teens can do.

 

[Birb321]

i am glad someone posted about this because i am a young person my self i am under 18 years old. And some people think that i dont know alot about parrots or that i think i know about parrots.
I hope i dont get any hate for being this young.

 

[moxxiethecockatoo]

i am glad someone posted about this because i am a young person my self i am under 18 years old. And some people think that i dont know alot about parrots or that i think i know about parrots.
I hope i dont get any hate for being this young.

I know how you feel. I had an entire Michigan bird rescue harass me, bully me, and even leak my personal information because of my age and their beliefs that "teenagers are dumb".
Social media idolizes that way too much constantly portraying teenagers being nothing but "trouble makers" and it's sickening.
Not only did I prove a teenager could take care of a parrot, I also proved a teenager can have a heart attack. It may have been cyber bullying, but it was enough to almost blow my heart out.

 

[foxgloveparrot]

I know how you feel. I had an entire Michigan bird rescue harass me, bully me, and even leak my personal information because of my age and their beliefs that "teenagers are dumb".
Social media idolizes that way too much constantly portraying teenagers being nothing but "trouble makers" and it's sickening.
Not only did I prove a teenager could take care of a parrot, I also proved a teenager can have a heart attack. It may have been cyber bullying, but it was enough to almost blow my heart out.

I totally agree with you and I'm so sorry this happened. Most of the teenagers here are just as mature or more mature than 24-year-old me. So yeah, people need to stop assuming that just because teens are young, they're stupid.

 

[moxxiethecockatoo]

I totally agree with you and I'm so sorry this happened. Most of the teenagers here are just as mature or more mature than 24-year-old me. So yeah, people need to stop assuming that just because teens are young, they're stupid.

Agreed. When I got the $600 I saved. I could have used it on anything that's considered "teenage stuff"
But I wanted something better and nicer, as in good for the world nice.
That's why I chose to rescue a parrot with that money. Animals are my obsession

 

[Birb321]

I know how you feel. I had an entire Michigan bird rescue harass me, bully me, and even leak my personal information because of my age and their beliefs that "teenagers are dumb".
Social media idolizes that way too much constantly portraying teenagers being nothing but "trouble makers" and it's sickening.
Not only did I prove a teenager could take care of a parrot, I also proved a teenager can have a heart attack. It may have been cyber bullying, but it was enough to almost blow my heart out.

wow I am so sorry about what happened about you, but I am proud of you for showing that teenagers are not some trouble makers, and they can take care of parrots

 

[moxxiethecockatoo]

wow I am so sorry about what happened about you, but I am proud of you for showing that teenagers are not some trouble makers, and they can take care of parrots

Moxxie is my world and I would cry for a week straight if I lost him.