Very bad news

[Anansi]

I am so sorry that Kobus has tested positive. I understand how hard it must be for you to prevent yourself from mourning him now, rather than celebrating the (conceivably long) life that he has ahead of him. But once the initial shock wears off, I'm confident that your heart will rally and you'll find yourself up for that task... daunting as it now may seem.

You have already received some excellent advice, and I cosign on much of what has been said. You should definitely get him retested in another 3 months. And if you get a negative result that time around, test yet again in another 3 months. (As birds only test positive while the disease is actively shedding.) If, however, your bird again tests positive, you can be reasonably certain that he does indeed have it.

But even then, as others have said, he could be a carrier who never develops his own symptoms, or one of those who manages to live a long life in spite of the disease, or even one of the very few who manage to seemingly fight off the disease.

Kobus' positive result may have been heartwrenching to hear, but it's hardly the end of his story. Until, or unless, he starts to show definite symptoms, there are still so many possibilities for how things might go. It is not yet time to mourn. Kobus is very much still here. I will keep you and Kobus both in my prayers.

 

[Starwing]

My sincere compassion for your sad news. However, as much as I've read about PBFD, I have actually never read about a case study of an Amazon with the disease. Not saying it doesn't happen but they aren't really known to be super susceptible to it. If that was my bird, I would sure have him retested using a different lab, just to verify the findings. Also, did your vet draw blood from a vein or was it from blood collected from a toenail short-clip? What people sometimes don't realize is that it is easy to cross contaminate a sample from a nail clipper, for example, that wasn't properly sanitized. So few disinfectants are effective against PBFD (bleach is about the only one that's available here in the USA, and it's been recommended to SOAK them for a period of time, not just dunk and rinse). It makes me shudder to think how many "bird groomers" use the same nail clippers on birds without properly sterilizing them between birds (and that could even happen at the vet's office). I'm not in any way suggesting your vet was negligent in the collection method used, only that it might have happened there at the collection site OR even at the lab (cross contamination happens and those tests are SUPER sensitive so it wouldn't take but a tiny bit of virus to cause a positive test). If you were here in the US, I'd suggest you clean off the nail really well, clip with brand new clippers, immediately put in the collection bag, and send to one of the labs that do that test (Avian Biotech or Research Associates Laboratory). Both are so affordable (RAL is $18 and does 24-hour turn around).

I know you're terrified and concerned, but I would sure encourage you to re-do that test to confirm it before spending another day worrying about it. I'll hope and pray it was an incorrect reading.

Thanks for the kind words and good advice. Unfortunately, I live in the Netherlands, and very little qualified and specialized avian vetenarians reside here. The one I visited is considered the best in her profession, and has studied under Dr. Greg Harisson.

The blood drewn from Kobus was taken with a needle rather than from a nail, and unfortunately the fact that I decided to go see a vet was the result from my suspicions, rather than the result "randomly" when I wasn't worrying at all. I'm not sure, however, that what I perceived in Kobus that gave me reason to fear this outcome was actually reason to believe so, and I still can hardly see any "real" gritty evidence of his infection.

What I however have noticed, and what has given me reason to visit the vet, were some little feathers on front of her head that would fall out, to me it seemed he a real lot of down between and underneath his feathers, some feathers seemed a bit "feeble" and not as "firm" as I thought was "healthy". Some small wings (I think contours) would be a little curly (sideways) which I thought was scary but my girlfriend would assure me was probably just normal because of the place where it was on his wing.

Because I don't really know if what I saw was actual evidence of the disease, or that I just happened to be paranoid and right without reason to believe so at first, only to have my, perhaps unfounded, suspicions confirmed by test results, it makes it quite hard to "assess" what we (and Kobus) are headed for and what I should expect.

I would, once again, as I have done many times before, like to post some photo's when I get home, this time with the knowledge of the diagnosis.

I'm quite sure that no matter what's going to happen, it surely must matter if Kobus has literally no symptoms right now, or if the disease is barely, but enough so, noticable in his physique, when thinking about how long he and we have until he'll run into more serious issues that would lead up to a potentially ultimate dilemma.

Nevertheless, I will keep all of you posted as soon as I get home from work.

Much Love

 

[Starwing]

I just couldn't bring myself to wait until this afternoon, and I'm having a lot of trouble
focussing instead of worrying about Kobus. I'm on my break now and decided to upload
a new photo and post some of the older ones for hindsight purposes:

Here you can see some of the flimsy feathers I mentioned earlier. These are gone now, and seem to have been replaced with healthier ones.
These were, however, some of the feathers that I was worried about. Call it a gut feeling.

Another picture of Kobus back. Her wing hardly looks like this anymore, in fact, it looks a lot better now, but you can see what had me worried.

Side view, some of his wing feathers seem raffled and like a house that has it's shingles placed all over eachother randomly.
This looks better now than then, and it doesn't look like this at the moment. Still, you can see my concerns.

Another glance at his back, also, when I took this photo, I thought the beak seemed very flaky and I was concerned.
At the time most people agreed that this seemed quite normal, and would probablycontinue to "flake into normality" eventually.
It looks less flaky than this at the moment.

 

[Starwing]

Still thinking and hoping Kobus was still having a hard moult, this picture was taken about a week before I went to the Avian vet. Kobus dropped all these feathers in one day. It seemed to me like this was a whole lot and had me worried a bit.

Still, she has stopped losing this amount of feathers as abruptly as she started (happened two days in a row) and he has no bald spots or whatsoever at the moment.

Still, it scared me, and even moreso in hindsight.

EDIT: Something that also didn't sit well with me was that, and this picture shows this well, some dropped feathers
seemed to "concave" towards the shaft, and rather than actual feather, would only have down from that point on.
You can see by one of the feathers in my hand how the "real feather" seems to narrow into down towards the
bottom of the feather.

The point of the feathershaft would feel soft to me, as well, as I would try to push my finger to it, to feel how
"tough" it would feel, but I could easily push my finger towards it, without hurting my finger. The point of the shaft
would just "bend" as if made from weak small plastic.

 

[henpecked]

It's hard to say about the feathers. It depends on where they came from. I don't really notice anything abnormal about them.

 

[Starwing]

It's hard to say about the feathers. It depends on where they came from. I don't really notice anything abnormal about them.

I'm glad to hear you say that, fact of the matter is it's really hard for me now to know what I'm seeing, especially with the positive PBFD result. I guess I'll just have to put my money were my mouth is and stop worrying about the what-if's and maybe's and enjoy our time in the now.

 

[Terry57]

I am so sorry to hear about Kobus's positive result. Your love and anguish comes through every word you wrote, and my heart breaks for you all.
I agree with Stephen, this is definitely not the end of his story, and I hope you will continue to let us share his life with you.
You are in my prayers.

 

[mh434]

As for the feathers - they look largely normal to me. The photos I've seen of PBFD feathers look very different, and far more malformed. My 'Zon sheds feathers that look like the ones in your photos frequently - that being the case, at this point, I'd say he's not showing actual symptoms (at least, as far as the feathers are concerned).

The feather shafts of these small feathers are (at least, in my experience) often very soft. They do tend to stiffen up a few days after being shed. Sammy sheds feathers all the time that are part-feather and part-down, particularly from his back. Those look totally normal to me.

To be honest, he looks entirely healthy (and happy!) at this point. It might well be that he's, at worst, a carrier and, at best, able to beat it entirely. It DOES happen!

 

[Starwing]

As for the feathers - they look largely normal to me. The photos I've seen of PBFD feathers look very different, and far more malformed. My 'Zon sheds feathers that look like the ones in your photos frequently - that being the case, at this point, I'd say he's not showing actual symptoms (at least, as far as the feathers are concerned).

The feather shafts of these small feathers are (at least, in my experience) often very soft. They do tend to stiffen up a few days after being shed. Sammy sheds feathers all the time that are part-feather and part-down, particularly from his back. Those look totally normal to me.

To be honest, he looks entirely healthy (and happy!) at this point. It might well be that he's, at worst, a carrier and, at best, able to beat it entirely. It DOES happen!

No matter the test result, that *is* a very reassuring thing to hear.
Come what may, we're definitely giving it our all...!

I've actually looked back at some pictures from when we owned Kobus for literally a couple of days. His feathers seem to be in só much better shape now than they were then.

This could ofcourse just be idle hope, but could there be a small chance that, if Kobus was already infected when we bought him, his immune system actually got stronger in the meanwhile and his overall condition improved since then? The only reason I never noticed the state of his feathers back then was because I never heard about all these nasty diseases and wasn't continiously worrying, even before I heard the test results...

Funny thing is though, we used to refer to Kobus as a little man, until someone we knew from a pet bird club in our hometown way back in the days thought he was a she since he wasn't all that big at the time, and we had to go through a lot of trouble to remind ourselves calling him "she" from that time on, only to recently find out he really is a he after all, and now we're struggling to not call him "she" or pretty "girl" again...

Kobus still is, indeed, having the time of his life every day he gets to pick fights with inanimate objects that refuse to apologize to him for being there when he accidently bumped into them, making tons of playful noises playing with his bells, claiming my girlfriends lap when the cat was actually lying there first, singing along songs with improvised ... sounds that resemble voice.. This is far from over!

Love, Starwing and Kobus

 

[veruka1973]

If it makes you feel any better my DYH Amazon is currently molting and has been for awhile and he has shown feathering exactly like Kobus' pictures and his beak even though it is horn colored and not black looks flaky kinda like Kobus' also.
The sections look scruffy as he is molting but once that section finishes it looks normal again. No bald patches or anything but in my opinion it looks normal to me.
I wish you and Kobus the best!

 

[Starwing]

If it makes you feel any better my DYH Amazon is currently molting and has been for awhile and he has shown feathering exactly like Kobus' pictures and his beak even though it is horn colored and not black looks flaky kinda like Kobus' also.
The sections look scruffy as he is molting but once that section finishes it looks normal again. No bald patches or anything but in my opinion it looks normal to me.
I wish you and Kobus the best!

It does, thank you! Nevertheless, Kobus is getting a lot of exercise and sleep, and remains ever as cheerful as we have come to know him. No matter how far we've come, I can't wait to see tomorrow

 

[mh434]

One thing for certain - Kobus is leading a WONDERFUL life!! Many other birds should be so lucky!

 

[95talongirl]

Heartbreaking. That is for sure. I am so sorry!

But like everyone else have said here, it is best to not dwell on it. As with Avian Bornavirus, it's not a necessarily a death sentence.

I also went though a case of PDD... it scared the living crap out of me. Although Kimi did no survive, I was scared to death for Mopar. But then I realized that we cannot live in a bubble, nothing is for certain, and living in fear robs you of the good times you should be having.

I wish you the best!