Advice for redirect bites?

[onamom]

In the dog world "redirect" is the term we use when a dog bites either a person or animal in response to a frustration or outside factor. I believe that same term applies to what I've been experiencing with Ona lately. Ona is almost always outside of her cage and loves to sit on my shoulder. Every morning she sits on my shoulder as I brush my teeth and she gets in the shower with me. Recently I've been having an issue where she will bite me HARD on the neck or shoulder when I do something specific that scares her or she doesn't like. Some examples:

• Taking the cap off of a tube of chapstick
• Using the vacuum sealer on her chop container
• Wiping my electric toothbrush handle with a towel
• Sometimes throwing away trash

It's almost always a result of me picking or up touching something that she just decided HECK NO to.

I try to look for the pattern and remember the things she doesn't like and avoid those things when she is on my shoulder, but sometimes a new one comes up or she decides something that didn't bother her before now does. And how she reacts is to bite me VERY hard in the neck or shoulder. I'm not talking a little nip, it's the kind of bite that leaves an indentation in the skin and turns into a welt afterward. Pic of the damage from this morning:

Spoiler: Photo

It's gotten to the point that this happens about once a day. Normally it's in the morning while I am preparing her chop to give her for breakfast or while we are in the bathroom getting ready for the day.

This is how I normally respond when it happens:

1. I bend over so that she has to release the bite. She is then essentially hanging upside down from my shirt with her feet. I do normally say "Ouch!" I can't help it :/
2. I try to get her off of me and she normally responds by biting my fingers just as hard - which doesn't hurt nearly as bad as on the neck and shoulder but it's still hard bites.
3. I put her down somewhere, she normally is very worked up at this point and biting my fingers still.
4. I try to ignore her and do the shunning method - but - she can fly. Most of the time she just flies right back to me immediately. That happened this morning and that's how I ended up with three bites there. She flew back to me and bit again.
5. Eventually I'm usually able to put her down long enough to make eye contact with her and say "No. No. Gentle" in a firm voice. She gives me her "understanding" look that she does and then we move on with our routine. I really think she does understand when I tell her "no". The key is making that eye contact with her and making sure she is listening and focused before I tell her.

I would like to try to train her not to do this redirect biting while on my shoulder but I am not sure what I can do to start. It happens spontaneously and since she can fly it's hard to just not let her on my shoulder.

Any thoughts or suggestions on this?

 

[zERo]

When I read this I realized how much this reminded me of what Tom used to do, especially when he was around a year old.

He would be sitting on my shoulder then bite when I did something he didn’t like, and you’re right, it hurts!

He used to do it about my phone, my yeti, or anything new. The best way I’ve found to remedy this was getting him used to each of these things.

It also helped to set him on a table with those objects and let him go up to them and see that they weren’t dangerous or going to hurt him.

Maybe while you get her used to the things she’s scared of, you could set her down for a second while you have to use them?

 

[onamom]

When I read this I realized how much this reminded me of what Tom used to do, especially when he was around a year old.

He would be sitting on my shoulder then bite when I did something he didn’t like, and you’re right, it hurts!

He used to do it about my phone, my yeti, or anything new. The best way I’ve found to remedy this was getting him used to each of these things.

It also helped to set him on a table with those objects and let him go up to them and see that they weren’t dangerous or going to hurt him.

Maybe while you get her used to the things she’s scared of, you could set her down for a second while you have to use them?

That is a great idea. I will try letting her have a look at the toothbrush and the towel touching it while she is off my shoulder. And the chap stick tube coming off. Those are the ones she is very consistent about right now. She got me both yesterday and today with the toothbrush towel wipe.

The weird thing is it's not usually just an object that does it. It's me doing something very specific with the object. Normally it does involve taking lids off of things or stuff like that. It's an action that freaks her out vs just seeing the object.

It makes me feel better that you say Tom did the same around this age. Maybe it is a phase she will grow out of.

 

[zERo]

That is a great idea. I will try letting her have a look at the toothbrush and the towel touching it while she is off my shoulder. And the chap stick tube coming off. Those are the ones she is very consistent about right now. She got me both yesterday and today with the toothbrush towel wipe.

The weird thing is it's not usually just an object that does it. It's me doing something very specific with the object. Normally it does involve taking lids off of things or stuff like that. It's an action that freaks her out vs just seeing the object.

It makes me feel better that you say Tom did the same around this age. Maybe it is a phase she will grow out of.

I wonder if she doesn’t like the sound? Though I guess a wiping a towel on your toothbrush doesn’t make a sound :/

 

[onamom]

I wonder if she doesn’t like the sound? Though I guess a wiping a towel on your toothbrush doesn’t make a sound :/

I don't think it's sound related. It's just something about me touching things or interacting with things. 🤷‍♀️

 

[saxguy64]

I'm curious if wearing a hoodie (hood down, but enough bulk to cover your neck and shoulders) would change anything. If she continued to bite, she would get no reaction because it's not hurting you. Of course the other possibility is that she decides it's okay to continue doing it.

I usually wear something like that, or at least a flannel shirt for a few reasons. My guys are big by comparison 420-650 grams) and no matter how often I do their nails, sometimes they just want to hold on tight, and those big strong feet and nails hurt. Aside from that, Avery is decidedly not comfortable on the shoulder, and will nip at my neck or ear to let me know he doesn't want to be there. I only put him up there if he's with me and I need use of both hands for a minute. Otherwise, he's down on my hand or forearm, and on the arm, his nails are like fish hooks! He hangs on TIGHT when we do his flapping exercises.

 

[onamom]

I'm curious if wearing a hoodie (hood down, but enough bulk to cover your neck and shoulders) would change anything. If she continued to bite, she would get no reaction because it's not hurting you. Of course the other possibility is that she decides it's okay to continue doing it.

I usually wear something like that, or at least a flannel shirt for a few reasons. My guys are big by comparison 420-650 grams) and no matter how often I do their nails, sometimes they just want to hold on tight, and those big strong feet and nails hurt. Aside from that, Avery is decidedly not comfortable on the shoulder, and will nip at my neck or ear to let me know he doesn't want to be there. I only put him up there if he's with me and I need use of both hands for a minute. Otherwise, he's down on my hand or forearm, and on the arm, his nails are like fish hooks! He hangs on TIGHT when we do his flapping exercises.

Hm that's an interesting idea too. That might give me more of an opportunity to try and get her focused so I can explain to her that it's ok.

 

[onamom]

Ok, I tried some things. I put on a hoodie yesterday and during our training session I showed her the chapstick tube and let her touch it and see it. I also let her see my taking the cap off and on. She didn't try to bite me in the neck but she does get overstimulated.

Today I did the same thing again and she crawled down my arm toward the tube to try to grab it. I put it on the table and let her see it. Here is her reaction:

🤷‍♀️ It's that same kinda overstimulated play type behavior she does with the bowling pins from her little bowling set. Now I'm thinking she's not afraid of it she just really really wants to play with it?

I have managed to make it through today without any bad bites! She *almost* got me when I took the little clear cap off my toothbrush head but I remembered at the last second and put her down before she could.

 

[ravvlet]

If she won’t step onto your fingers without biting when she’s upset, will she step up on a perch? When Kirby gets upset by something and I have to move him I have a little dowel I keep handy. Otherwise things like vet appointments can become rather painful!

 

[onamom]

If she won’t step onto your fingers without biting when she’s upset, will she step up on a perch? When Kirby gets upset by something and I have to move him I have a little dowel I keep handy. Otherwise things like vet appointments can become rather painful!

Hm I’m not sure. When it’s happened I haven’t had a perch handy. I do know when I try to put her on her usual perching spots in the bathroom, like on the towel rack, she won’t let go of the bite and won’t step off. I’ll try to see next time.

 

[onamom]

I wonder if it’s a territorial thing. She can get that way over toys. If she thinks it’s “hers” and doesn’t want me to touch it.

 

[DonnaBudgie]

In the dog world "redirect" is the term we use when a dog bites either a person or animal in response to a frustration or outside factor. I believe that same term applies to what I've been experiencing with Ona lately. Ona is almost always outside of her cage and loves to sit on my shoulder. Every morning she sits on my shoulder as I brush my teeth and she gets in the shower with me. Recently I've been having an issue where she will bite me HARD on the neck or shoulder when I do something specific that scares her or she doesn't like. Some examples:

• Taking the cap off of a tube of chapstick
• Using the vacuum sealer on her chop container
• Wiping my electric toothbrush handle with a towel
• Sometimes throwing away trash

It's almost always a result of me picking or up touching something that she just decided HECK NO to.

I try to look for the pattern and remember the things she doesn't like and avoid those things when she is on my shoulder, but sometimes a new one comes up or she decides something that didn't bother her before now does. And how she reacts is to bite me VERY hard in the neck or shoulder. I'm not talking a little nip, it's the kind of bite that leaves an indentation in the skin and turns into a welt afterward. Pic of the damage from this morning:

Spoiler: Photo

View attachment 51775

It's gotten to the point that this happens about once a day. Normally it's in the morning while I am preparing her chop to give her for breakfast or while we are in the bathroom getting ready for the day.

This is how I normally respond when it happens:

1. I bend over so that she has to release the bite. She is then essentially hanging upside down from my shirt with her feet. I do normally say "Ouch!" I can't help it :/
2. I try to get her off of me and she normally responds by biting my fingers just as hard - which doesn't hurt nearly as bad as on the neck and shoulder but it's still hard bites.
3. I put her down somewhere, she normally is very worked up at this point and biting my fingers still.
4. I try to ignore her and do the shunning method - but - she can fly. Most of the time she just flies right back to me immediately. That happened this morning and that's how I ended up with three bites there. She flew back to me and bit again.
5. Eventually I'm usually able to put her down long enough to make eye contact with her and say "No. No. Gentle" in a firm voice. She gives me her "understanding" look that she does and then we move on with our routine. I really think she does understand when I tell her "no". The key is making that eye contact with her and making sure she is listening and focused before I tell her.

I would like to try to train her not to do this redirect biting while on my shoulder but I am not sure what I can do to start. It happens spontaneously and since she can fly it's hard to just not let her on my shoulder.

Any thoughts or suggestions on this?

It is so frustrating when your beloved baby does this. I wish I knew the answer! My Rocky also bites necks and ears and it doesn't help to try shunning because Rocky just flies right back. I have a lot of hoodies. I wish we could somehow teach our birds that biting HURTS and its not acceptable. I think their bird flockmates do a better job of teaching biters to stop it. As a human I don't know how to do it without damaging the bond.

 

[onamom]

It is so frustrating when your beloved baby does this. I wish I knew the answer! My Rocky also bites necks and ears and it doesn't help to try shunning because Rocky just flies right back. I have a lot of hoodies. I wish we could somehow teach our birds that biting HURTS and its not acceptable. I think their bird flockmates do a better job of teaching biters to stop it. As a human I don't know how to do it without damaging the bond.

I do think Ona understands when I tell her "no" and "gentle". I can tell from the way she looks at me that she does know what that means. Just in the moment when she's overstimulated, she's too worked up to listen. Once I get her to calm down and then talk to her and tell her "no, no. gentle" she stops.

 

[DonnaBudgie]

I do think Ona understands when I tell her "no" and "gentle". I can tell from the way she looks at me that she does know what that means. Just in the moment when she's overstimulated, she's too worked up to listen. Once I get her to calm down and then talk to her and tell her "no, no. gentle" she stops.

Ona is most definitely smarter than my budgie Rocky (don't tell her I said so). Being overstimulated leads to biting, for sure. I just don't think they fully understand are hurting us.

 

[DonnaBudgie]

Ona is most definitely smarter than my budgie Rocky (don't tell her I said so). Being overstimulated leads to biting, for sure. I just don't think they fully understand are hurting us.

I've never had a dog but it seems that dogs must be taught not to bite when they're puppies. How do dog owners teach their puppies not to bite?

 

[onamom]

I've never had a dog but it seems that dogs must be taught not to bite when they're puppies. How do dog owners teach their puppies not to bite?

In a lot of ways dog training is similar to parrot training funny enough. It's much the same for puppies that when they are getting mouthy you ignore the behavior and don't continue to pet them or give them attention until they stop. You also try to redirect the behavior with a toy or by asking them to do something else like "sit" for a treat. I believe in positive reinforcement training.

 

[onamom]

I wanted to post an update on this. So, I have figured out this strange behavior from Ona only occurs with very specific objects and I keep a list of what those objects are in my head. The newest one is taking the cap off of any prescription medication bottle.

I have also come to the conclusion that she is not afraid of these objects and I don't think her bites are a fear response. The best explanation I can come up with is it's a possessive thing? If I try to show her any of the caps she gets upset about she gets all angry puff and pushes them around and throws them on the floor. Maybe she thinks they are hers and she doesn't want me touching them? I suppose it could be a fear thing but I have seen how she acts when she is scared and this seems different.

The only solution I've been able to come up with is making sure she is not on me when I touch any of these things. The prescription bottle one is somewhat of a problem because the other day she actually flew to me to bite me when I took the cap off one...