An update on Goofy

[BeatriceC]

Oh, for goodness' sake. Goofy, for crying out loud, EAT.
Beatrice, I'm so sorry you're all going through this.
Don't be a stranger. I miss you when you're away for too long.

Thanks, Gail.

And a special picture just for you.

 

[Laurasea]

Awesome pic! Very impressive that your vet does in house, and actually makes blood slides! It can be missed if they aren't trained in spotting them, when I did a survey, we looked at five slides per bird, abd checked twice yearly, they can be sneaky! Makes a bird febrile, not checked in office very often, we used an esophageal temperature probe. ... Florida at least has these nasties, and in many species. Just reaching, since you have had the bird worked up so well and aren't finding answers. You can ask your vet their thoughts on it, as your bird does spend time outside. I hope answeres are found, or your baby just gets better!

 

[BeatriceC]

Awesome pic! Very impressive that your vet does in house, and actually makes blood slides! It can be missed if they aren't trained in spotting them, when I did a survey, we looked at five slides per bird, abd checked twice yearly, they can be sneaky! Makes a bird febrile, not checked in office very often, we used an esophageal temperature probe. ... Florida at least has these nasties, and in many species. Just reaching, since you have had the bird worked up so well and aren't finding answers. You can ask your vet their thoughts on it, as your bird does spend time outside. I hope answeres are found, or your baby just gets better!

That's my husband, not my vet. Gail has a small internet crush on MrC. Though Dr. J and MrC do have some similar looks.

I'll ask when we go back to see Goofy tonight, but his lab tech is usually super on top of things, so I'd be surprised if she missed anything.

 

[ChristaNL]

Gail has great taste

 

[Kiwibird]

I know this may sound a bit 'out there', but has anyone in your family/circle of friends that Goofy knows and likes been feeling off, had a major trauma happen or has recently been diagnosed with a serious illness themselves (or passed away)? Parrots are highly sensitive and if there is nothing wrong medically with him, his refusal to eat may be he is sensing something wrong with a flock member he cares deeply for and is responding to that. Be it a physical or mental illness (or reaction to trauma), parrots (or most animals really) can often pick up on things before we can or that we'd never imagine they could sense. Just a thought...

I hope Goofy starts eating again soon!

 

[Anita1250]

How are his liver numbers? My Sam is a 35 year old BFA. Two years ago, he started losing some weight. He had always hovered around 500 Gms., but went down to 432. When his blood work came back, his liver enzymes were elevated. He went on Lactulose with milk thistle, and is doing very well now. He has gained all of his weight back, and is now around 515 Gms. He is a very tall bird, so not obese at all.

You and your vet may have to investigate a great many things before you can even begin to fix this. I hope Goofy starts to do better soon. Good luck.

 

[BeatriceC]

I know this may sound a bit 'out there', but has anyone in your family/circle of friends that Goofy knows and likes been feeling off, had a major trauma happen or has recently been diagnosed with a serious illness themselves (or passed away)? Parrots are highly sensitive and if there is nothing wrong medically with him, his refusal to eat may be he is sensing something wrong with a flock member he cares deeply for and is responding to that. Be it a physical or mental illness (or reaction to trauma), parrots (or most animals really) can often pick up on things before we can or that we'd never imagine they could sense. Just a thought...

I hope Goofy starts eating again soon!

We actually talked about the possibility of depression. We did have a new grandbaby born, but the baby has only been over here once, and they arrived after the birds were in bed. One of the teenagers got really sick on Thanksgiving (nearly landed in ICU), but he'd long since recovered by the time Goofy stopped eating, and they're not particularly bonded to begin with. My other stepdaughter stayed here for two months from mid-August to mid-October, and again for a few days right before Thanksgiving after the baby was born, but again, they're not particularly bonded. If anybody was going to get depressed after her leaving, it would have been Betty, who would have probably tried to sneak into her luggage given half a chance. And we keep going back to the fact that he appears to be a perfectly healthy bird if you ignore the fact that he won't eat. His energy is a bit low, but he's alert, looks around, tries to keep up with any activity in the room, etc. It's maddening.

 

[BeatriceC]

How are his liver numbers? My Sam is a 35 year old BFA. Two years ago, he started losing some weight. He had always hovered around 500 Gms., but went down to 432. When his blood work came back, his liver enzymes were elevated. He went on Lactulose with milk thistle, and is doing very well now. He has gained all of his weight back, and is now around 515 Gms. He is a very tall bird, so not obese at all.

You and your vet may have to investigate a great many things before you can even begin to fix this. I hope Goofy starts to do better soon. Good luck.

Liver enzymes are perfect. Liver also looks to be a good size on the x-ray. Same with heart, kidney and lung function. We're waiting on the report from the board certified radiologist, so here's hoping he sees something subtle that we missed.

 

[Anita1250]

It is becoming a mystery for Sherlock Holmes! I hope the radiologist can see something fixable that no one else can.

 

[BeatriceC]

Slight change this morning. His poop is brown instead of the normal green color of formula poops. We're going to retest him for ABV (he was negative in March of 2017). His images don't show any signs that ABV is going on, and his CBC is boringly normal, or was last week, but with the poop change, it makes sense to redo that test. The radiologist didn't find anything significant on his barium study. If the ABV retest is negative, we're going to take him up to the vet our vet recommended for a second opinion. Our vet was thinking about calling him anyway to see if he'd take a peek at his records without seeing him and see if he can spot something different.

 

[EllenD]

Wow that's frustrating...So he just won't eat anything on his own, only formula, and really has no feeding-response but just swallows the formula, or he's just tube-fed...Everything else it totally fine...And he's maintaining his weight on just the formula and IV/sub-cutaneous fluids? It sounds like your vet has covered all the bases...Has he mentioned anything about doing an Endoscopy to take a look in his Crop and GI Tract? Sometimes they will see something very obvious during an Endoscopy that you can't see at all on plain-film x-rays or Barium Studies, such as non-metal foreign bodies stuck in the Crop, the Esophagus, Stomach, etc...

Did he do a really thorough examination of the inside of his mouth/throat? How about his beak, did he see if Goofy has any sensitivity when his beak is touched/pressure is applied? I'm just thinking of things I've seen cause anorexia in birds without any other signs or symptoms, and a lot of the time it's either due to pain in their mouth/tongue/throat or from their beaks, or from a very small foreign body stuck in the Crop/Throat/Stomach, such as a wood-splinter from a toy, little pieces of plastic, etc. I've seen Endoscopy done where they also do a Crop-flush with the scope, and tons of little "bits" of things come out, usually little pieces of plastic, fabric, thread, and wood splinters...

Depression is always a possibility, but it usually doesn't happen so acutely and without reason, and it usually presents with other behavioral and physical changes along with anorexia...Usually with full-on anorexia that is so sudden and acute, it's due to an equally sudden and acute problem, such as pain caused be either an injury or from them eating/swallowing something they shouldn't have that is suddenly causing them pain WHEN they eat and ONLY WHEN they eat...Beak, Mouth, Tongue, Throat/Esophagus, Crop, Stomach...

 

[EllenD]

Another thought is Trichomoniasis or something similar that is causing pain in Goofy's mouth/tongue/throat, which usually presents with a lot of redness in the mouth and sometimes you can see canker-like sores/lesions and a yellow plaque in the mouth/throat...Usually issues like this can be seen by taking a swab from the back of the bird's throat/tongue/mouth and then putting it on a slide and looking at in under the scope...

***Another thought...I'm sure they did a complete Fecal culture/sensitivity, microscopy/gram-stain, that's one of the first things they would do...But did they say anything at all to you about the quantity of healthy/normal bacteria in Goofy's feces being normal? Sometimes they can actually have an imbalance of healthy, normal bacteria in their GI Tract without it causing a Fungal/Yeast infection, and just this total lack of healthy, normal bacteria throughout their GI Tracts can cause anorexia, changes to the feces like color, consistency, etc. They should be able to simply look at a fecal sample from Goofy under the microscope and be able to tell if there is an abnormally low amount of healthy bacteria present...but they have to be paying attention to just that and looking for it, instead of just looking for bad bacteria indicating a antagonistic bacterial infection...

Other than that, testing for other specific Avian Viral Diseases, such as they did for ABV, might be an idea...Unusual in adult birds but not unheard of and that can cause sudden anorexia and weight loss is Polyoma Virus...

 

[BeatriceC]

We haven't done an endoscopy yet, but he did get in his mouth with a scope and light and inspected as far as he could see that way. He's gone back to the blood and fecal slides a few times, and had his office partner look as well, in addition to his in house lab tech. Nothing is looking out of the ordinary. He swallows formula from a syringe with encouragement, but not willingly. He's mostly getting nutrition from tube feeding at this point. Whenever we have him there for any reason, we have them go ahead and give subq fluids and a crop feed. It's just easier and less stressful on everybody that way. We plan to redo all the blood work and fecal tests on Tuesday if the ABV test is negative.

 

[Anita1250]

We are all pulling for Goofy. I hope they can find out what it is soon so he can get better and be the birdie for you.

 

[BeatriceC]

So, some of you know this, but MrC is a retired research scientist. His Ph.D. is in biophysics. We were just discussing the idea of taking some fecal samples ourselves and making our own slides, just to get yet another set of eyes on them, especially with the changes in his droppings today. We're not sure we're going to, but it's a thought. We have everything we need at home to do so. But since we're not veterinary experts, we're not sure if we could add anything useful. From a purely science nerd point of view, I don't object to this idea in the slightest.

 

[Anita1250]

I agree. Poop will never be missed, and someone with that pedigree may very well see something others did not. I say go for it. After all, it is only poop. Something we all have a lot of LOL.

 

[Laurasea]

I agree. Poop will never be missed, and someone with that pedigree may very well see something others did not. I say go for it. After all, it is only poop. Something we all have a lot of LOL.

Too true!!! Hope you crack the case!

 

[Scott]

Slight change this morning. His poop is brown instead of the normal green color of formula poops. We're going to retest him for ABV (he was negative in March of 2017). His images don't show any signs that ABV is going on, and his CBC is boringly normal, or was last week, but with the poop change, it makes sense to redo that test. The radiologist didn't find anything significant on his barium study. If the ABV retest is negative, we're going to take him up to the vet our vet recommended for a second opinion. Our vet was thinking about calling him anyway to see if he'd take a peek at his records without seeing him and see if he can spot something different.

Kudos for diligently finding answers for Goofy. Curious to know who Dr. J recommended for second opinion? Dr. L? (you can PM me if preferred)

 

[BeatriceC]

Slight change this morning. His poop is brown instead of the normal green color of formula poops. We're going to retest him for ABV (he was negative in March of 2017). His images don't show any signs that ABV is going on, and his CBC is boringly normal, or was last week, but with the poop change, it makes sense to redo that test. The radiologist didn't find anything significant on his barium study. If the ABV retest is negative, we're going to take him up to the vet our vet recommended for a second opinion. Our vet was thinking about calling him anyway to see if he'd take a peek at his records without seeing him and see if he can spot something different.

Kudos for diligently finding answers for Goofy. Curious to know who Dr. J recommended for second opinion? Dr. L? (you can PM me if preferred)

Dr. Loudis in Encinitas. He was one of Dr. J's interns way back when.

Edited to add: Third opinion, really, because he's conferred with his office partner many times trying to figure out what we're missing.

 

[Scott]

Slight change this morning. His poop is brown instead of the normal green color of formula poops. We're going to retest him for ABV (he was negative in March of 2017). His images don't show any signs that ABV is going on, and his CBC is boringly normal, or was last week, but with the poop change, it makes sense to redo that test. The radiologist didn't find anything significant on his barium study. If the ABV retest is negative, we're going to take him up to the vet our vet recommended for a second opinion. Our vet was thinking about calling him anyway to see if he'd take a peek at his records without seeing him and see if he can spot something different.

Kudos for diligently finding answers for Goofy. Curious to know who Dr. J recommended for second opinion? Dr. L? (you can PM me if preferred)

Dr. Loudis in Encinitas. He was one of Dr. J's interns way back when.

Edited to add: Third opinion, really, because he's conferred with his office partner many times trying to figure out what we're missing.

Ah, thought so! Dr. Loudis is my CAV. Skilled and very laid-back demeanor with fids and parronts. I appreciate how he performs as much work as possible in exam room for you to see and understand. Hope he can shed some light for Goody's benefit