An update on Goofy

[BeatriceC]

He has an appointment with Dr L Monday afternoon. If the ABV test comes back positive, we can cancel it.

 

[Scott]

Let us hope Goofy is negative for ABV.

 

[BeatriceC]

It's getting pretty late. I was really hoping for news today.

 

[GaleriaGila]

Me, too.
Me, too!

 

[Laurasea]

Mee three meet tgree

 

[BeatriceC]

The office closes in 19 minutes. I'm guessing I'm not going to hear from them today. We're planning on taking him to the vet's tomorrow at noon for a tube feed and fluids, to give us a little bit of a boost for getting through Sunday, so hopefully we'll know something more by then.

 

[GaleriaGila]

Thinking of you.

 

[EllenD]

I'll be hoping it's ABV negative...And nothing at all wrong with you guys using your knowledge and equipment to take a look at Goofy's Fecal swabs...I'd also take another swab from the back of his throat/mouth/nares if possible, because that's the other hotspot...

This one is really, really frustrating...It's odd that the ONLY symptom is anorexia/dysphagia, and usually when it is it's due to an injury to the beak/mouth/throat or a viral or parasitic condition that is causing sores in the mouth/throat, like cankers...There are a few very weird Avian viruses that cause very painful mouth sores or just mouth pain/redness, but they typically only effect poultry birds...

Honestly, if the ABV is negative, then I'd request specific blood-testing for other common Avian viruses, or request the endoscopy, but hopefully his newest Fecals will reveal something...Sometimes they'll stop eating before whatever it is shows-up in their feces...That's why I asked if they had specifically commented on the amount of healthy-bacteria in his feces, because typically if their is a GI or metabolic issue, the healthy bacteria in their Fecal will be pretty lacking, when it should be all over the place when you look at the culture...

 

[Scott]

Hope you receive the ABV results today and have a great appointment with Dr. L.

 

[BeatriceC]

Goofy is positive for ABV. We have decisions to make. I don't want to make them.

 

[ChristaNL]

Oh dearie, that suckest soo much
on the other hand... the fight is not over till its over.


My biggest concern is about all the other parrots in the house, because that one really spreads... did you already have them tested/ tests sceduled yet?

 

[EllenD]

Goofy is positive for ABV. We have decisions to make. I don't want to make them.

Oh no, I'm so, so sorry...I was just totally discounting ABV since the first test was negative for it, I figured it was negative...Does your CAV think that Goofy has a chance at shedding the virus? I ask that because Goofy is pretty sub-clinical, with his only outward sign/symptom being the anorexia, so that's a definite positive. I don't think that you mentioned Goofy showing any neurological or CNS symptoms...I don't know what your CAV is recommending, but in my own experience at the Rescue, our CAV has always recommended separating the positive bird from the rest of the negative birds, just as a precaution, and has not ever recommended Euthanasia in a positive bird that is sub-clinical for CNS/neurological symptoms (though it's highly unlikely that your other birds are positive, as ABV isn't easily transmittable to other parrots, thank god)...If I remember correctly, the incubation period for PDD is around 90-days, so if Goofy shows no CNS signs in that time period, then usually that means that they are not PDD positive as well...I've not had to deal with this for a while, so I'm trying to remember the last case of ABV we had, it was a Cockatiel, and he was passing undigested seeds in his droppings and was not eating, but those were the only outward symptoms, no CNS or neurological symptoms, and he did not develop PDD and was fine with supportive care that included daily tube-feedings and sub-cu fluids...He started eating again on his own and gained a good 30 grams in about two weeks after he stopped passing whole seeds in his feces...

I'm so very sorry, but this isn't necessarily a death-sentence, I'm sure you know that, especially since Goofy isn't showing any signs of PDD at all, that's a very positive sign...Whatever you guys decide to do, we're here for you...

 

[BeatriceC]

Goofy is positive for ABV. We have decisions to make. I don't want to make them.

Oh no, I'm so, so sorry...I was just totally discounting ABV since the first test was negative for it, I figured it was negative...Does your CAV think that Goofy has a chance at shedding the virus? I ask that because Goofy is pretty sub-clinical, with his only outward sign/symptom being the anorexia, so that's a definite positive. I don't think that you mentioned Goofy showing any neurological or CNS symptoms...I don't know what your CAV is recommending, but in my own experience at the Rescue, our CAV has always recommended separating the positive bird from the rest of the negative birds, just as a precaution, and has not ever recommended Euthanasia in a positive bird that is sub-clinical for CNS/neurological symptoms (though it's highly unlikely that your other birds are positive, as ABV isn't easily transmittable to other parrots, thank god)...If I remember correctly, the incubation period for PDD is around 90-days, so if Goofy shows no CNS signs in that time period, then usually that means that they are not PDD positive as well...I've not had to deal with this for a while, so I'm trying to remember the last case of ABV we had, it was a Cockatiel, and he was passing undigested seeds in his droppings and was not eating, but those were the only outward symptoms, no CNS or neurological symptoms, and he did not develop PDD and was fine with supportive care that included daily tube-feedings and sub-cu fluids...He started eating again on his own and gained a good 30 grams in about two weeks after he stopped passing whole seeds in his feces...

I'm so very sorry, but this isn't necessarily a death-sentence, I'm sure you know that, especially since Goofy isn't showing any signs of PDD at all, that's a very positive sign...Whatever you guys decide to do, we're here for you...

Goofy normally lives separate from the other birds because he has to be able to see MrC. I can see him from my desk, but he's one room over, not in the same room as me and the other birds. We tried to have him in the main bird room, but he was miserable being separated from him human. In this case, this is now a good thing. We also take basic "universal" precautions as a matter of habit, when moving back and forth between birds and equipment.

The only reason we're discussing euthanasia is because trying to force feed him is borderline cruel at this point with how he's reacting to it. We'd started him on several medications for pain and GI distress "just in case", and it's not helping. He's actually resisting more. Formula feeding him three times a day is clearly miserable on him. He clamps his beak shut, cries, tries to get away, bites us, etc., even with the medications in his system that are supposed to make his GI tract feel better. And the changes in his droppings that made us retest for ABV to begin with was what looked like undigested formula. And he's still losing weight, despite more formula than he should be getting for his weight and regular sub-q fluids. He's deteriorating fast. How long is too long to keep him going, when he's clearly in pain? That's what we're discussing now.

 

[texsize]

I am so sorry you are going through this. And not having answers to what his underling problem is makes it worse.

I had Lady put to sleep and I felt horrible about it. I still wonder if I did the right thing but she was suffering. Head tilted sideways walking/stumbling in a circle.

I see my Bingo in your Goofy and I hope with all my being you can resolve his problem.

texsize/wes

 

[LaManuka]

Oh BeatriceC I’m so sorry you and dear Goofy have received this terrible news. So many beautiful birds seem to be suffering this horrible disease, you have my every sympathy and support!

 

[BeatriceC]

We keep coming back to the fact that he's clearly in pain. He's been on metacam for a week and a half and sucralfate for a week and not only is he not improving, he's getting worse. He's losing weight in spite of more than adequate amounts of formula. He fights feeding with everything he has. In between he's clearly tired and not feeling well. If he was responding even a little bit to the meds he's already on we wouldn't even be considering anything but treating him, but with everything else, I just don't know.

 

[GaleriaGila]

Oh, Beatrice... I guess I'll be either brave or awful...I think maybe I'd let him go... we all leave this particular level of life. Goofy is and has been SOOOOOO loved...

Whatever you decide, all of you are in my heart, before, during, after.

xoxoxo

 

[Laurasea]

Hi, sorry to hear this, and sorry Goofy is feeling worse.. before coming to a decision like this I would still least seek a second opinion , not because your vet is anything other than great, but because it is a good idea, wetger this was a person, a dog, or a parrot. Different ideas, different set of eyes. And it will save second guessing later.....I had a cat born with one kidney, later in life she had a pretty bad kidney infection, she wasn't eating, and based in blood work my vet recommend euthanasia. I sought a second vets thoughts, I had her hospitalized at the second vet treated for two weeks. She recovered and lived 7 more healthy years...I myself have to spend time in the hospital often, it is not fun for anyone,.. if you have access to a vet school maybe it's worth seeking their ideas.. You have to do what is right for you all, but as for me I urge a second look at the situation by a new pair of eyes. My thoughts are with you, and I hope for a recovery against all odds...

 

[BeatriceC]

I know some may not agree, but we have decided to let him go. We spoke with our vet at length, and he has consulted with several other vets as well. If Goofy was showing any response at all, even if it was simply not getting worse, to the medications and treatments (including two hospitalizations) he's received in the last two weeks, it might be different. But every day he is getting worse. He is in pain. Force feeding him is brutal on everybody, most of all Goofy. It would be selfish of us to continue as we are with him in the state he is in. I have been trying to be positive this whole time, looking at small things to cling to hope, but in reality, Goofy is miserable. Because he is so very loved, it is time to let go. We are both devastated, but MrC more so, and he made the final call. I wish it could be different, but realistically, we believe this is the kindest thing we can do for Goofy.

 

[Laurasea]

It's the most loving, and the hardest thing we face as their care givers. Peaceful passing, and deepest sympathy to you and yours..